Downtown Memphis

[rocket9561]

While I don't think Memphis is "poor" I do think that the state's weath is more concentrated in Nashville. Davidson, as a whole, is wealtheier than Shelby. According to the Census the Median Household income for Shelby county DROPPED from 39,593 in 2000 to 37,963 in 2003. Davidson's median household income rose from 39,797 to 40,439. Therefore Memphis is actually losing wealth. Moreover, Memphis doesn't have a suburban county that even comes close to the wealth of Williamson County and the rest are equal or less than Rutherford, Sumner, and Wilson.

This doesn't mean that Memphis is completely "in decline" but a declining income level is usually bad and the concentration of wealth in Nashville seems to be growing larger.

[DallasTexan]

Why does everything always have to be a competition with Nashville always having to be #1?

[nashvol85]

Why does everything always have to be a competition with Nashville always having to be #1?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because we are #1, silly!

[sleepy]

While I don't think Memphis is "poor"  I do think that the state's weath is more concentrated in Nashville.  Davidson, as a whole, is wealtheier than Shelby.  According to the Census the Median Household income for Shelby county DROPPED from 39,593 in 2000 to 37,963 in 2003.  Davidson's median household income rose from 39,797 to 40,439.  Therefore Memphis is actually losing wealth.  Moreover, Memphis doesn't have a suburban county that even comes close to the wealth of Williamson County and the rest are equal or less than Rutherford, Sumner, and Wilson. 

This doesn't mean that Memphis is completely "in decline" but a declining income level is usually bad and the concentration of wealth in Nashville seems to be growing larger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A few points to make:

Again, I'd like a source for those stats. The only thing I find on the census page is summary table no. 3.

And I think it's absurd to say that Memphis is losing wealth.

No, Memphis doesn't have a suburban county equal to Williamson. But Shelby county outside of Memphis is as wealthy as Williamson--and more populated.

And I'm glad to see that at least you are willing to admit that Memphis is not "completely" in decline. Not only a condescending statement, but unwarranted as well. But as I said, I think it's important for some Nashvillians to believe it regardless of the facts.

[sleepy]

Does Memphis have skyscraper restrictions b/c a city of there size i think should have a better skyline, no offense. While studying earthquakes my science teacher said that Memphis couldnt build huge building due to unsteady ground. Is this true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not aware of any height restrictions in Memphis. All buildings are required to incorporate earthquake standards though.

Downtown Memphis doesn't have tall buildings because beginning about 40 years ago, the businesses followed the wealth which moved east.

Also, downtown Memphis is on the extreme western edge of the metro area, away from where most people live.

Twelve miles east of downtown there is a 32 story office building and a 22 story office building. They were built in the late 60's. In that area and further east are mostly 10-12 story office buildings and office parks.

Downtown Memphis will never be a business center. FedEx built its corporate hdq 20 miles east of downtown, and its tech center in Collierville 28 miles east. The only corporate headquarters in downtown Memphis built in the last 5 years is AutoZone. First Tennesse Bank is still downtown as is the state's largest law firm, Baker, Donelson. That's it.

The rest of downtown Memphis is barrooms, whorehouses, and apartments.

[sleepy]

Why does everything always have to be a competition with Nashville always having to be #1?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you're talking about.

I've discussed this with you previously.

I went to Vanderbilt in the early 70's and noticed that much of establishment or old money Nashville disliked the idea that Nashville's image was country music, and so on.

My idea was that country music was great and I dragged my New Jersey and New York City fellow students to the Grand Old Opry and other places to show them how really cool the place was. I reminded them that Dylan had recorded "Blonde on Blonde" and "John Wesley Harding" in Nashville. We saw Eric Clapton playing with Johnny Cash at the Opry, etc. Can't beat that.

But anyway, I think that as Nashville boomed later on in the 80's, it cast around for an identity separate from the rest of the state and, unfortunately part of that identity wasn't so much bound up in whatever Nashville was, but was an attempt to state that the city was different from the rest of Tennessee--Knoxville was hillbillies, Memphis was ghetto, etc. In other words, for its identity, Nashville seemed to focus on what is was not, and to define itself against other cities in the state.

[sleepy]

Now you see why I used to get pissed off, sleepy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.

It's a bizarre thing. I've lived in Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, and Minnesota, and never quite experienced it.

[nashvol85]

No, Memphis doesn't have a suburban county equal to Williamson.  But Shelby county outside of Memphis is as wealthy as Williamson--and more populated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I finally decided to find out the difference between Shelby suburbs and Memphis...these are my findings:

Memphis city: $32,285 medium income

Shelby county w/o Memphis: $60,499

It's not quite as wealthy as Williamson ($69,104), but it is more wealthy than any of the other suburban counties around Nashville.

I also did some research on the MSA figures for average household income...

Memphis MSA: $39,533

-most populated counties (Crittenden, DeSoto, Shelby, Tipton): $40,076

Nashville MSA: $44,278

-most populated counties (Davidson, Rutherford, Sumner, Williamson): $44,951

Rural areas skew the stats in both cases.

[sleepy]

I finally decided to find out the difference between Shelby suburbs and Memphis...these are my findings:

Memphis city: $32,285 medium income

Shelby county w/o Memphis: $60,499

It's not quite as wealthy as Williamson ($69,104), but it is more wealthy than any of the other suburban counties around Nashville. 

I also did some research on the MSA figures for average household income...

Memphis MSA: $39,533

-most populated counties (Crittenden, DeSoto, Shelby, Tipton): $40,076

Nashville MSA: $44,278

-most populated counties (Davidson, Rutherford, Sumner, Williamson): $44,951

Rural areas skew the stats in both cases.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to know where you get the stats for Shelby Co. outside of Memphis since I'm unaware of any census stats that break out that area. I'm not saying what you cite is wrong.

Again, too, the Memphis msa median household income is lower than Nashville's. I've never disputed that.

The fact that Nashville is a wealthier city than Memphis is a given. The reasons why that seems important for Nashville is another matter.

[nashvol85]

I'd like to know where you get the stats for Shelby Co. outside of Memphis since I'm unaware of any census stats that break out that area.  I'm not saying what you cite is wrong.

Again, too, the Memphis msa median household income is lower than Nashville's.  I've never disputed that.

The fact that Nashville is a wealthier city than Memphis is a given.  The reasons why that seems important for Nashville is another matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey...I was just pointing it out...

The Shelby stats came from taking the total (countywide) households (338,366), multiplying it by the total (countywide) household income($39,593)... that figure is $13,396,925,038...

Take the Memphis total households (250,721) and multiplying it by the household income ($32,285)... that figure is $8,094,527,485

$13,396,925,038 - $8,094,527,485 = $5,302,397,553

Divide $5,302,397,553 by the leftover Shelby county households (87,645) and you get $60,499

I did the math myself....so feel free to check for possible errors.

[sleepy]

Yep. You're right. The 250,000 people in Shelby County outside of Memphis have a median household income less than Williamson County.

Again, my point was not to say that Memphis was somehow wealthier than Nashville. It's not.

My egress into this thread was to dispel some myth that Memphis is a poor city. It's not. The median household income for Memphis' msa is above the national average. This is particuarly signficant when you consider that the Memphis msa has the largest black % of any msa in the country.

And I also question why it's seeminly so important for Nasvhille forumers to believe otherwise. I think the answer to that question is also interesting.

[brewerw]

Fedex Forum is really cool! I'd never seen it. I would go to the All-Star game if it went to Memphis! I also, after agruging alot have found out that You cant compare the two downtowns. First, Nashville and memphis are different. Memphis is more tourism, Beale St. Peabody ect. Nashville is more offices. Not to say Nashville doesn't have tourist or doesn't have offices, but this is what i have come to believe. Also if you look at our Nasvhille skylive alot of what make it is government buildings.

[rocket9561]

Take out the comparison to Nashville and you still have a median houshold income in Memphis/Shelby Co. that has declined significantly over the past three years and that is bad.

[sleepy]

My goal in life is to check into a downtown Nashville hotel and drink myself into one inch of my life.

I then want to have enough energy to walk from said hotel into the Nashville bus station and buy a ticket to Memphis.

I then want to have enough life left in me to ride the bus to Memphis. After arriving in Memphis, I hope to have enough money left to check into an interesting hotel.

[sleepy]

Take out the comparison to Nashville and you still have a median houshold income in Memphis/Shelby Co. that has declined significantly over the past three years and that is bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, you're right.

Nashville===growing rich.

Menphis===declining poor.

That's ok?

You've certainly tried over many weeks of this thread to convince me of that fact.

Why, is that important would be the question.

[nashvol85]

Lol....let's just let this thread die...I think we have analyzed Nashville and Memphis to every possible level. They are very similar in a lot of aspects, but both unique cities...let's leave it at that.

[DallasTexan]

My goal in life is to check into a downtown Nashville hotel and drink myself into one inch of my life.

I then want to have enough energy to walk from said hotel into the Nashville bus station and buy a ticket to Memphis.

I then want to have enough life left in me to ride the bus to Memphis.  After arriving in Memphis, I hope to have enough money left to check into an interesting hotel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll drink to that, and I'll even use my employee discount to get us a suite

[DallasTexan]

Why, is that important would be the question.

It's not. Money is jack in this world. The small things are the things that really do count in this life. It takes having money to realize that fact, too.

I could say something mean and evil about strange obsessions with wealth and certain professions in this thread, but I'll refrain

[sleepy]

Take out the comparison to Nashville and you still have a median houshold income in Memphis/Shelby Co. that has declined significantly over the past three years and that is bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, do you have any source for that statement?

I would frankly doubt if there are few if any counties in the country that had declines in income levels from 2000 to 2003. Whether those income levels were current with inflation might be a different story.

While I've never asserted that Memphis is wealthier than Nashville, I have made the claim that Memphis is not as poor as you insist.

But I will make the claim that it is unfortunate that certain Nashvillians for whatever reason--identity? self-image?--insist in the assertion that Memphis is a poor gheto town.

Nashville is a great city, and doesn't need put down's to make it great.

Fact--http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/inactivefinancial/2000/fil0039b.pdf

Household income in Memphis is higher than:

San Antonio, Birmingham, Louisville, New Orleans, Orlando, Greensboro, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, etc., and yes even Los Angeles.

In other words, outside the South's boomtowns such as Charlotte, Nashville, and Atlanta, Memphis does quite well.

[alslex1]

Memphis too poor and black for an NFL team?  Hard to believe someone on the Nashville Sports Council would say something so ill-informed.  No doubt a political appointee. lol

Here's some stats on median household income for metros with pro-sports teams:

Tampa--$37,406

San Antonio--$39,104

Pittsburgh--$36,467

Miami--$38,632

Memphis--$40,201

New Orleans--$35,317

Buffalo--$38,488

Memphis never considered by the NFL?  Memphis was in line to get one of the two early 90's NFL expansion team if they had built a new stadium.  The city refused because it had just expanded the Liberty Bowl in the mid-eighties.  Is your sports council friend really not aware of that?

And  Mayor Bredesen was no more involved in the NBA's decision to relocate a team from Vancouver to Memphis than I was.  Following that train of thought, perhaps, it was Mayor Herenton who decided to give the Titans to Nashville.  Makes as much sense. lol

Are you saying that the NBA was going to come to Nashville if they didn't come to Memphis?  Actually, both the Vancouver Grizzlies and the Charlotte Hornets filed their notices to relocate to Memphis on the same day, and thank goodness the Hornets were turned down.  The only cities in play for those franchises were Louisville, Memphis, and New Orleans.  Nashville wasn't involved.

And if you think the NBA's a poor man's game, price the tickets.

Satalac--You're correct that Memphis is a great basketball city, though I'm not sure what "centrally located" means.  I think drawing 65,000 fans to 8 football games isn't that tough a sell in most of the South.

Univ. of Memphis attendance stats:

NCAA, Div. 1 average attendance

2001

1. Kentucky  21,786

2. North Carolina  20,836

3. Syracuse 19,282

4. Ohio St. 17,540

5. Louisville 17,443

6. Memphis 17,110

7. Wisconsin 16,811

8. New Mexico 16,418

9. Arkansas 16,225

2002

1. Kentucky 21,014

2. Louisville  18,929

3. Indiana  17,183

4. Syracuse 17,023

5. Ohio St. 16,603

6. Wisconsin  16,528

7. New Mexico  16,426

8. North Carolina  16,319

9. Kansas 16,285

10. Memphis 16,225

2003

1. Kentucky 22,271

2. Syracuse  20,921

3. Louisville  19,037

4. North Carolina 18,688

5. Maryland  17,566

6. Wisconsin 16,930

7. Memphis  16,643

8. Indiana  16,527

9. Kansas  16,300

10. Ohio St. 16,057

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GO KENTUCKY !

[satalac]

GO KENTUCKY ! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they still go beat by florida. twice.

[rocket9561]

Again, do you have any source for that statement?

I would frankly doubt if there are few if any counties in the country that had declines in income levels from 2000 to 2003.  Whether those income levels were current with inflation might be a different story.

While I've never asserted that Memphis is wealthier than Nashville, I have made the claim that Memphis is not as poor as you insist.

But I will make the claim that it is unfortunate that certain Nashvillians for whatever reason--identity? self-image?--insist in the assertion that Memphis is a poor gheto town.

Nashville is a great city, and doesn't need put down's to make it great.

Fact--http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/inactivefinancial/2000/fil0039b.pdf

Household income in Memphis is higher than:

San Antonio, Birmingham, Louisville, New Orleans, Orlando, Greensboro, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, etc., and yes even Los Angeles.

In other words, outside the South's boomtowns such as Charlotte, Nashville, and Atlanta, Memphis does quite well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My Source is the census

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSA...GeoDiv=&_useEV=

I don't think Memphis is "poor" or "ghetto" but I do think that Nashville has the greater concentration of wealth in this state and it seems to be becoming even more concentrated there. That's what was in question. It's good that Memphis has a higher than average income level even if it is falling. Again, I'm not trying to say Memphis is poor overall.

[sleepy]

My Source is the census

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSA...GeoDiv=&_useEV=

I don't think Memphis is "poor" or "ghetto" but I do think that Nashville has the greater concentration of wealth in this state and it seems to be becoming even more concentrated there.  That's what was in question.  It's good that Memphis has a higher than average income level even if it is falling.  Again, I'm not trying to say Memphis is poor overall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your source is the "American Community Survey".

That data is dated 2003 and shows a 2003 Davidson County population of 545,000, as opposed to a 2003 census estimate of 569,000. It also shows a Shelby County population in 2003 of 886,000 from a 2003 census estimate of 906,000.

Those stats are based on a mail-out to approximately 1 of 10,000 people.

Do you really think Davidson County lost 24,000 people in 3 years, and the other stats are accurate? I don't think so.

Again, as I continue to state, I understand that it's important for certain Nashvillians to get their sense of identity from portraying Memphis as declining and poor. That's ok with me because it's inaccurate, but it does a diservice to Nashville which is quite capable of standing on its own.

I live in Minnesota and, trust me, when I tell folks I'm from Tennessee, I'm constantly combatting the hillbilly image---and no one distinguishes Memphis from Nashville.

[doormanpoet]

I read years ago that there were more millionaires in Belle Meade for its population size than any its size in the country with the exception of two.

Chattanooga has some very wealthy people in the Signal Mountain/Sewannee area.

[flith]

I read years ago that there were more millionaires in Belle Meade for its population size than any its size in the country with the exception of two.

Chattanooga has some very wealthy people in the Signal Mountain/Sewannee area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had read the same thing about the millionaires per capita except that it was about Lookout Mountain not Signal Mountain.

Lookout Mountain, TN is wealthier than Signal Mountain, TN. Signal Mountain has two municipalities on it: the Town of Signal Mountain and the Town of Walden. Sewanee is just out side of Chattanooga's MSA or CSA.

Figures for Chattanooga's more affluent areas:

Sewanee, TN** Median household income: $55,625 (year 2000)

Signal Mountain, TN Median household income: $66,900 (year 2000)

Lookout Mountain, GA Median household income: $62,045 (year 2000)

Walden, TN Median household income: $68,977 (year 2000)

Lookout Mountain, TN Median household income: $100,782 (year 2000)

In Chattanooga your income is usually an indicator of the elevation you live at. All of the above communities are on mountain tops. They make a nice physical barriers for crime. The crime statistics are extremely low for most of these areas.

**Sewanee is just outside of Chattanooga's MSA, on the Marion County line