Light Rail in Orlando

[Jaybee]

It's pretty realistic, as only the freight directly located on the corridor would be allowed through. You may also want to check out Mica's website, which has more information on http://www.house.gov/mica/projrailcommuter.htm

[Dale]

I'm almost sure that I read, several months ago, that there has been a considerable softening of CSX's earlier opposition to rerouting.

[bobliocatt]

I checked out the site, commuter rail in Orlando is very realistic. However, I just don't see CSX switching the majority of freight traffic out of the Orlando area since there are only two CSX owned north-south routes in Florida, one of which travels through downtown Orlando. The other travels through Gainesville and Ocala.

Most likely they'll end up double tracking the line through Orlando, like they did for Tri-Rail in South Florida. Thus it may be a good idea to seriously study providing at least two seperate grade crossings in the downtown area, one which should be Colonial. They'll be expensive, but well worth it.

[demon]

Dyer, Crotty give new life to light rail

By Jason Garcia and Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writers

Posted February 15, 2005

Orange County and Orlando leaders have launched a new bid for a light-rail system that would link Orlando International Airport, International Drive and the city's downtown -- resurrecting the controversial $1.3 billion project the county killed six years ago.

County Mayor Rich Crotty and Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer have asked Congress to find money for a local light-rail train as it puts together its transportation spending plan for the next six years.

As part of the arrangement, the city and the county appear poised to unite behind a plan to build the train's first leg between the airport and the Orange County Convention Center on I-Drive, resolving one of the key disputes that doomed earlier light-rail efforts.

"A light-rail system connecting the Orlando International Airport, the Orange County Convention Center and the downtown Orlando area is critically important to our region and to the city of Orlando," Dyer wrote in a letter sent Monday to U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who serves on the House Transportation Committee.

The Orlando mayor touts a light-rail plan in his letter that begins at the airport and extends first to the convention center on I-Drive and then to the Lynx Central Station downtown, with stops at the Lee Vista Center office park just north of the airport and the Florida Mall.

City officials put the price tag for the route at $1.3 billion. The leg from the convention center to downtown is part of another light-rail proposal being studied by state officials.

That "north-south light rail" project is proposed to run north and south from Altamonte Springs, through downtown to International Drive, at a cost of $1.3 billion.

Dyer's words of support for beginning light rail at the airport is a sharp reversal to the city's position under former Mayor Glenda Hood, who six years ago fought vehemently to build the first leg of the train between downtown and I-Drive.

County leaders lobbied for the airport line, saying that more people would use the train on that route.

City officials countered that such a route would cater almost exclusively to tourists, as opposed to a downtown route that many locals could use.

Hood accused Orange County leaders of trying to build a "tourist train" and said they had "lost sight of our residents, especially those who live in our cities."

County commissioners killed the project in September 1999 when they voted 4-3 against contributing to a $600 million downtown-to-International Drive route. The decision left more than $450 million in state and federal money on the table.

Mica recently approached local leaders, urging them to take up the project again now that Congress is compiling its next transportation priority list.

"I encouraged them to reach an agreement on where they want to run the first leg of light rail," Mica said.

"We're starting all over."

In an interview Monday, Dyer stopped short of wholly endorsing the airport train link but said Orlando would support "whatever makes the most economic sense and whatever we can get up and out of the ground."

"The project won't be killed by a disagreement over what the first leg will be," he said.

Crotty, who also urged Mica to find money for light rail, said starting the train at the airport makes the most sense because that route would attract the most riders. And he said getting that first phase in place would make it easier to build extensions "be it to downtown or whatever."

"To me, it's perfectly logical," Crotty said.

Three routes are being considered. The one emerging as the favorite would start at the Orange County Convention Center and cut northeast to John Young Parkway along the future extension of Canadian Court. The train would head north on John Young to Sand Lake Road, then follow Sand Lake and McCoy Road most of the way to Semoran Boulevard (State Road 436). From there, the route would head into the airport.

That route is winning out over two others being reviewed by the Florida Department of Transportation because it links more business sectors, providing more chance that local people would use the train.

The other routes would follow either Florida's Turnpike or the Bee Line Expressway (S.R. 528) most of the way to the airport.

When it decides which projects get federal grants, the Federal Transit Administration wants to see the trains moving local people more than helping visitors get in and out of town.

"Light rail is supposed to be more community driven, with more local people, to take people from an activity center to an activity center," said Tawny Olore, rail project manager for the Department of Transportation's District 5, which includes Orange County.

By cutting through large proposed development areas northeast of the convention center, passing near the Florida Mall, then swinging past industrial areas along Tradeport Drive and Sand Lake Road, the Sand Lake route has more of a chance to do that than the other two alternatives, Olore said.

A state study to be completed next month projects 11,864 riders a day on the Sand Lake route. But the study does not break down how many of those might be visitors coming from the airport to International Drive.

The study estimates the line would cost $55.2 million a year to operate and maintain.

It would also connect with a separate plan for commuter rail -- larger trains that run on existing freight tracks and make fewer stops. Mica is pushing hard for a 61-mile, $332 million commuter-rail project that could connect DeLand to Kissimmee through downtown.

Despite the show of unity between the city and the county, officials cautioned that plenty of hurdles remain ahead.

Even under a best-case scenario, Mica said, it would take four years of studies, planning and design work before construction began.

"I will authorize federal funds for the project now that we have an agreement. But there's much more work to be done," Mica said.

Still, that the city and the county have agreed to go after the federal money is "critical," Mica said.

"They miss this one, and we'd be another six years behind."

[accatt2204]

Monorail Page.

I havnt studied much on monorail, but what do you think about a monorail urban transit for Orlando?

[Jaybee]

Monorail is an extremely expensive transit technology. It would be great if the private parties that would benefit from a monorail, like the major theme parks, invested in the system. Afterall, Las Vegas was able to do it to connect the major casinos and convention center (see: http://www.lvmonorail.com/), and these private individuals paid for the project, since they mostly benefit from it.

When approached on the concept of doing transit in the I-Drive corridor, the I-Drive properties owners didn't want light rail, only monorail technology, and they didn't want to pay for it. Thus, I don't see one being built in Orlando anytime soon, unless Disney decides to build one to the airport to replace their new shuttle system that whisks people right past the cabbies.

[bobliocatt]

Monorail Page.

I havnt studied much on monorail, but what do you think about a monorail urban transit for Orlando?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Without significant private investment, I wouldn't touch a monorail sytem with a 10 foot poll. Its just too expensive over other methods of rail, such as a streetcar or light rail system. For example, I believe the Jax skyway cost somewhere around $400 million to construct almost 3 miles of track. Light rail runs between $40 million and $90 million/mile. With forward thinking, Jax could have developed a much more extensive system building light rail, instead.

[cwetteland]

Transportation bill clears House

Central Florida stands to gain $8.9 million for commuter rail and an OK for light rail.

By Jim Abrams | The Associated Press

Posted March 11, 2005

WASHINGTON -- The House approved a mammoth highway and transit bill Thursday that aims to reduce traffic congestion nationwide and bring jobs to every lawmaker's home district.

The White House said the bill was "long overdue" but warned, as the measure moved to the Senate, that it would be subject to a presidential veto if it rose above the $284 billion the House approved.

The bill, passed 417-9, would guarantee $225.5 billion during a six-year period to the Federal Highway Administration, $52.3 billion to the Federal Transit Administration and more than $6 billion for safety programs.

Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, one of the senior members of the House Transportation Committee, said Florida will receive $9.99 billion for highway programs through the 2009 fiscal year under the measure. That's more than 27 percent higher than the $7.82 billion the state got in the last highway bill.

The bill also authorizes a light-rail project for Orlando and puts an additional $8.9 million aside for a Central Florida commuter-rail project Mica has touted.

The light rail -- which would run initially from Orlando International Airport to International Drive -- did not receive any specific funding in the bill. But the authorization means it will be eligible for federal aid in the future. Mica had won a promise for $330 million in federal aid for light rail in the 1990s, but squabbling among local officials doomed the project.

The new highway bill puts the light-rail project back to where it was about 10 years ago, Mica said. "You've got to start someplace."

The bill includes thousands of pet projects for local lawmakers, such as $7 million for State Road 50 in Lake County. Florida would get $588 million for 176 projects, according to an analysis by Taxpayers for Common Sense. Critics call the projects pork.

Congress has been trying to produce a new highway bill since the last six-year plan, funded at $218 billion, expired in September 2003. But the legislation got hung up last year when lawmakers couldn't work out a formula for dividing the money among the states, and the White House issued a veto threat because of spending levels it said would deepen the deficit.

On Wednesday the administration applauded the House bill but said President Bush would be advised to veto anything above $284 billion. It issued another veto threat over a clause in the bill requiring that it be reopened in the future, with the intent of adding more money, if goals aren't reached for making disbursement among the states more equitable.

"With the opener, we have the opportunity to come back and do this again," said Rep. Jim Oberstar of Minnesota, top Democrat on the Transportation Committee and a leading proponent of more infrastructure spending.

Currently, states are guaranteed 90.5 cents back for every dollar they contribute, through the federal gas tax, to the federal-highway trust fund. "Donor" states that pay more than they get back, many of them in the fast-growing South and Southwest, are demanding a minimum guarantee of 95 percent.

The House bill would increase the pot of money to be divided among the states by including in the calculations the special projects requested by members.

[Dale]

How significant will the $8.9 million be for commuter rail ?

[sunshine]

enough to make a few people very rich for doing nothing

[GRS328]

Hey, it's better than what happened to Tampa....

[redwinter]

To put things in perspective, residents of Orange County, FL, have in the last two years spent over $560 million of their taxes on the war in Iraq. People don't even want to use only $8.9 million to build a commuter rail system. Money for occupying a foreign country but not helping our own people?

Here's the source for whoever wants to check it: http://www.costofwar.com/

And I would like to see some better transportation options for Central Floridians other than risking our lives every day getting on the most dangerous roads in the country!

[demon]

To put things in perspective, residents of Orange County, FL, have in the last two years spent over $560 million of their taxes on the war in Iraq. People don't even want to use only $8.9 million to build a commuter rail system. Money for occupying a foreign country but not helping our own people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

$560 million?? That's insane!

[Dale]

I wouldn't mind seeing sources on that $560 million figure. Not saying it's wrong. Not agreeing it's wrong to invest in the Middle East as we have.

And it would be nice if someone could take a whack at my question: what will the $8.9 million alloted actually enable Orange County to do ?

[cwetteland]

It may buy a few passender cars? It will go further than if it were for light rail or high-speed rail. This 8.9 is for commuter rail, running on existing lines using existing stations. It's a start.

[Dale]

It may buy a few passender cars?  It will go further than if it were for light rail or high-speed rail.  This 8.9 is for commuter rail, running on existing lines using existing stations.  It's a start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I was thinking - a fairly substantial start.

[sunshine]

From Orlando Metroplan

Just as I-4 serves as the backbone to our region