When Will JIA Get International Flights?

[mwfsu84]

Actually, this is a two-part question: 1. When will Jacksonville get more international flights...and...2. When will Jacksonville get non-stops to more US cities other than Atlanta, New York, and Dallas? Like maybe a Jacksonville to Los Angeles flight? Or a Jacksonville to San Fran?

Does the city have to be a major tourist destination - like Orlando - to get those kind of flights?

Is it a matter of expanding the airport - or does the city need to grow? If the answer is the latter, how close is Jacksonville to reaching that goal?

To me, Jacksonville's lack of flights is a disadvantage in recruting major corporations to relocate to the area.

[PghUSA]

What comes first the chicken or the egg?

Some Companies don't want to move in because of a lack of flights . . .

Airlines won't offer more flights until the business traveler demand is there from companies moving in . . .

and around we go.

Pittsburgh knows the plight well, but we have the advantage of legacy cariers and legacy corporations that have some roots in the system up here.

Jax might also be hurt by the proximity of Orlando and Atlanta, true they are hours away but when your piloting a plane why land in Jax when most land in Atlanta and Orlando. Tough situation I admit.

[bobliocatt]

Actually, this is a two-part question:  1.  When will Jacksonville get more international flights...and...2.  When will Jacksonville get non-stops to more US cities other than Atlanta, New York, and Dallas?  Like maybe a Jacksonville to Los Angeles flight?  Or a Jacksonville to San Fran?  Depending on which one of these things happen, it could be anywhere from 2 years to 50.

Does the city have to be a major tourist destination - like Orlando - to get those kind of flights?

Is it a matter of expanding the airport - or does the city need to grow?  If the answer is the latter, how close is Jacksonville to reaching that goal?

The airport already has non-stop flights to several major cities like Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis, Houston, Dallas, etc. For it to get more non-stop flights, one of three things need to happen.

1. The city rapidly grows into one of the South's largest.

2. JAX becomes a hub for an airline.

3. The city becomes a large tourist destination.

To me, Jacksonville's lack of flights is a disadvantage in recruting major corporations to relocate to the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think so, because Jacksonville is already one of the leading cities in the region for corporate relocation. For the city to improve its chances of landing more companies, it needs better marketing, tax incentives, better mass transit, and more urban development (both public & private) in the inner city, to enhance the city's quality of life. All of these things may be more important than the size of our airport.

[Urban_Legend]

Besides the whole international deal, I really wish there was a convenient transit connection between the airport and downtown. I know they're planning on it, but it sure would've helped for the Super Bowl. I think that'll be an important route.

[PghUSA]

lakelander all good points but Jax is really caught in the middle of two STRONG markets no matter what airline services Jax it is basically MANDATORY they fly to the world's #1 destination: Orlando (save Vegas), and then just north you have one of the most major business and convention meccas in the nation in Atlanta, it would be similar to an airline making San Diego a hub and making Las Vegas and LAX secondary destinations from San Diego, ain't happening.

To take a real world view on it Jax will grow and pull more and more from Orlando and Atlanta but to be BIGTIME means Jax will have to equal or exceed their neighbor airports and there just isn't the critical mass in Jville and as long as Atlanta protects its lead in the convention biz and corporate travel and Orlando has Disney bringing them from Canada and Europe Jax won't really get a fair shake. If you were an airline why would you hub in Jax and make Atlanta and Orlando the secondaries? It is unfair in a way Jacksonville reminds me a lot of Nashville or like "new economy" sunbelt cities, it really does deserve more air traffic to better destinations, just the competition within Florida and with Atlanta in the north is fierce.

[bobliocatt]

I wouldn't worry too much about any of those airports. Atlanta is too far to the North to even be dicussed. Airports in Daytona, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Melbourne, Brunswick, Savannah & Charleston are all closer than Atlanta's. You won't save any money driving 6 hours to Atlanta, from Jacksonville, to catch a flight. You might as well drive to Orlando, Tampa or Miami's.

Anyway, Tampa's airport is just fine, and it has three international airports to compete with within 80 miles of it. (Orlando, Sarasota, St. Pete.). Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International is growing just fine, despite having the state's largest airport, MIA, about 20 miles to the South and West Palm Beach, just to the North. Fort Myers International is one of the State's fastest grwoing despite Tampa, Sarasota, Orlando, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West palm beach and Naples have international airports nearby.

Florida is a huge rapidly growing state. As each city continues to grow, there will be growth at everyone's airport, including Jax's. As of right now, the airport is sufficient for a metro of 1.2 million. Like what's happening in Fort Myers, air connections will increase, as this place continues to grow and become a more important business and tourist destination. However, its unfair to compare its services to cities such as Atlanta (nearly 5 million metro + Delta hub) and Orlando (nearly 2 million metro + Disney).

[mwfsu84]

I live in Atlanta - and I can tell you there are a lot of things I like about this city, but the airport ain't one of them.

Hartsfield International is too crowded, difficult to find a parking spot, and you walk forever to get to your flight. A major part of the problem is the design and layout of the terminals. LAX, which is also one of the world's busiest, has a circular design - you don't walk nearly as far to get to or from the gates.

Truthfully, Atlanta should have built a second airport long ago. And I'm wondering if Jacksonville can cipher off the excess traffic.

[wolfdawg54]

Um...A little reminder here. If you check out the thread Vision 2020, it will tell you some information about JIA. Currently, they are looking at expanding the airport, including international flights and establishing a connection between downtown and the airport via lightrail. I urge you to check this out as it might clear up some issues. Also, there is amodel of their plans in the entrance of the airport.

[PghUSA]

I wouldn't worry too much about any of those airports.  Atlanta is too far to the North to even be dicussed.  Airports in Daytona, Tallahassee, Gainesville, Melbourne, Brunswick, Savannah & Charleston are all closer than Atlanta's.  You won't save any money driving 6 hours to Atlanta, from Jacksonville, to catch a flight.  You might as well drive to Orlando, Tampa or Miami's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On a passenger view your exactly correct Lakelander, but if you look at it as a airline industry insider, that was the approach I was taking on my posts. Again I know about as much about the internal workings of the airline industry as I do about playing pro ball but if your running a multimillion dollar airline and you have to pick 2 hubs in the Southeast U.S. Orlando will be one of them (you can't afford to have travelers hunting for tix to Disney go through a maze of other airports) and Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte would be the other considerations, Jax and Tampa as hubs making ORLANDO a 2nd city for your travelers just wouldn't work out for your bottom line, and if you are leaning towards Atlanta's rich business traveler and convention business then Jacksonville being the HUB for Atlanta and Orlando flights isn't economical.

I totally agree that no one in their right mind would drive to Atlanta from Jax to catch a flight or vice versa and very few if any would attempt it from Orlando, the airline industry knows it too that's why all too often they make Orlando Jacksonville's HUB, they will fly direct to Jville just through Orlando or Atlanta or Charlotte. To tell that to the millions that clamour for Orlando vacations that they will get there just through Paris first JFK second then Jacksonville uh nope if an airline is flying from JFK to Florida its cheaper just to land it in Orlando where 80% want to get off or on then run a small jet up to Jville.

I can imagine there are loads of potential customers in Jacksonville that would support an airline, but to get yourself a hub you have to think like an airline, with the #1 destination in the world just south of you and people connecting on trans Atlantic and trans Pacific flights to get there the last thing an Airline that wants that business would do is stop 300 or 400 miles short (which on a plane is no distance at all) so they could have their customers wait and change planes in Jacksonville. Atlanta is a lesser threat but business travelers and conventioneers would feel the same. Let me know where I'm wrong because a lot of what Jacksonville is going through Pittsburgh is as well and I'm interested on other takes on the subject.

[bobliocatt]

I'll expand on this later, but Northwest Airlines just announced that they will open a new hub out of Indianapolis, despite Chicago, Detroit, Cincinatti, Louisville, St. Louis, and Cleveland all having large airports nearby. When it comes to business, companies react in different ways. THis doesn't mean Jax will become a hub one day, but it does show, that for whatever reason, an airline chose to expand its operations in a smaller airport, instead of going to its big neighbors nearby.

Anyway, I still fail to see how Jacksonville having a smaller airport than Atlanta or Orlando negatively affects it, when competing for corporate businesses. It didn't stop Washington Mutual, CSX, or Fidelity from moving large corporate operations here over the last two years. Being smaller, just might be a good thing.

[mwfsu84]

I'll answer your question, Lakelander.

Look at the cities with more than 15 Fortune 500 companies headquartered there, and you'll find a major airport, offering non-stop domestic flights to a wide choice of cities. I don't say that having such service is the only consideration companies look at when deciding to relocate, but you better believe it's an important one. A non-stop transcontinental flight can take up to six hours from Jacksonville. Now imagine having to wait another hour in Atlanta or Orlando to make a connection. It's a waste of productivity, and a real morale killer for employees too.

Did you know that back in the 1940's Atlanta and Birmingham were the same size? When Delta decided to relocate from Louisiana, both cities when after the airline. Atlanta won, and the growth started. Look at the two cities today. Birmingham has a metro population of about 1 million. Atlanta's metro is roughly 4.5 million.

I'm not hoping for Jacksonville to get a hub. But if they could get to Tampa's level, I think they could help themselves considerably in competing for major corporate relocations. It's a goal more people should be talking about, in my opinion.

[bobliocatt]

I'll answer your question, Lakelander.

Look at the cities with more than 15 Fortune 500 companies headquartered there, and you'll find a major airport, offering non-stop domestic flights to a wide choice of cities.

[scongro]

Atlanta's growth is helped by the Airport, which not bad to have a layover in, because traveling on the seatless subway is kind of cool, and they have the best airport food.

However, I got stuck in Atlanta overnight and had to catch an 8:30AM flight. I got the airport promply at 6AM, and I had to run to my gate (thank god the flight was delayed).

As far a JIA is concerned, I think Jacksonville needs to become some sort of hub to get a steady flow of international flights. Look at Charlotte, which has International flights, but isn't really that big of a city. However, they are big with US Airways, so there you go.

By the way, don't discount Georgia Tech as a reason for the city's growth.

[bobliocatt]

Independence Air adds Jax-to-West Coast flights

Independence Air will add connecting service from Jacksonville International Airport to five West Coast cities. The low-fare airline will add flights to San Diego International Airport April 14 with one daily connection.

Starting May 1 Independence (NYSE: FLYI) will offer two daily connections to San Francisco and one each to Los Angeles, Seattle and San Jose.

Seats to all five cities are on sale now. As an introductory offer, Independence is selling one-way fares to the five cities for $114 through Feb. 18.

Independence, which is based at Dulles Airport in Washington, D.C., will make its West Coast flights on new 132-passenger Airbus A319 planes. The airline currently serves a total of 39 cities.

[wolfdawg54]

Another point about more non-stop flights. Southwest also has several non-stop flights to Ft. Lauderdale, Nashville, Philly, Pheonix (occasionally), and probably some others. Just something to think about.