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Is Greenville becoming a big city?


motonenterprises

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Thanks gsupstate for that comment. I live in Sumter, which is 45 min. or an hour from Columbia and I also think that if one area of SC does well it will certainly benefit the whole state. I like how you divided each areas strengths. What if the strengths of each area one day turn SC into the next place in the Southeast to be? NC seems to have several nice cities that people all over the world flock to (Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Ashville, Greensboro, etc.) Our GA neighbors seem to only depend on Atlanta, because that's they only place people to seem to flock to there besides maybe Savannah, but Charleston is better and right down the road, which makes people flock there instead of Savannah. Also, Augusta only becomes the hot spot when the Master's comes to town. So in conlcusion, all of SC should be proud of each booming area of our state, it only makes the whole state reap the benefits.

By the way gsupstate, where are you originally from?

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My whole point is this, I'm constantly hearing that Columbia isn't growing as fast as Greenville but the actual numbers from the "gold standard" (census) and not speculation is suggesting otherwise. Columbia doesn't have a BMW but it has a USC, it has the research campus to Greenville's ICAR, it has Siemens NA HQ to Greenville's Michelin's NA HQ. There may be a possibility that Columbia could get an auto factory but it doesn't matter because it's never been a manufactoring town, if one comes great, if it doesn't it will move on.

SC is a fast growing state with similar sized cities that, according to the census anyway, appear to be growing at a similar rate. So if you are an outside investor looking to set up shop in SC (as suggested above) you may initially hear about Charleston and think it's a good market, but then you hear about a university town an hour and a half up the road that specializes in hydrogen energy technology and your company makes car engines that utilize hybrid hydrogen technology, wouldn't it be beneficial to establish your business in a town that does top research in this field? This way experts and students can be incorporated in the development of the product. This causes a chain rxn more people come to the area see it and say "hey it's not so bad here", and set up shop as well? The area is not a stick in the mud that seems to be implied. There are developments that are going on here that will change the region and states economy. I know I keep bringing up the research campus but like gsupstate implied the city is using its strength (academic research) to compete and make itself stronger! Again I say I'm not the only person who has seen this trend take off in similar sized towns 10-15 years ago, analyst of the "who's who" list of cities have noticed this as well (ie Richard Florida, Columbia, SC 5th most "creative midsized city"). However I'm not suprised I'm sure people were saying the same thing about Raleigh & Charlotte 20 years ago as well. "Why would anyone want to move to Charlotte, there is nothing there?" Well Charlotte took advantage of its strength's and made it happen. The city is not seeing prosperity by accident. But it had to start somewhere. Why is it so easily dismissed that Columbia has the potential do the same, especially in a small state that is growing relatively fast? I am simply implying that Columbia is doing the same thing.

Am I the only person that thinks like this? :blink:

gs, nice take on all SC metros by the way, that is kinda how I see it too, especially Myrtle.

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I've read all the posts and understand your concern about Columbia and how people are thinking its not growing as fast as Greenville. However please understand the two cities are different. Columbia is the state capital and Greenville is the eceonomic engine of the state. The state capital doesn't have to be the largest city in the state, it doesn't have to be the fastest growing in the state. At different times cities tend to grow at different rates. Be proud of the city you're in and don't worry about how others view it. I don't really think people care if Greenville or Columbia are outpacing one another inthe city growth thing. My opinion is that both along with Charleston (especially) is experiencing some good growth. The coast of South Carolina is experiencing it more-so because of the desire to be closer to the Atlantic and the ample amount of developable land in the area. Greenville is on a fast-track to becoming a large area, but Columbia is not on the same pth as Charlotte. I lived Columbia and now in Charlotte and I can tell you that the two cities are not that similar. Charlotte is growing, but will soon slow due to ordinances being placed to control growth. Columbia tends to grow in areas that take away from others. For example, the northeast area is growing rapidly, but at the expense of other areas that are eroding. My parents have a home in southeast Richland and they say the same thing. I'm often in Columbia and see progress and proud of it, but lets not go too overboard with the Columbia-Charlotte thing. Columbia will probably reach a "Greensboro" type growth while Greenville will probably see and Raleigh-Durham and Charleston will eventually see a Norfolk-Hampton, Va type growth. Each attainsthis growth due to whats in the area.

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I don't ever see a city in SC ever becoming a big city. Why would companies want to locate in Columbia or Greenville when big cities like Atlanta and Charlotte are nearby. Nobody outside of the Southeast has heard of Columbia or Greenville. The only city people might know in SC is Charleston. That is just my opinion though.

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I don't ever see a city in SC ever becoming a big city. Why would companies want to locate in Columbia or Greenville when big cities like Atlanta and Charlotte are nearby. Nobody outside of the Southeast has heard of Columbia or Greenville. The only city people might know in SC is Charleston. That is just my opinion though.

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See this is a perfect example of the type of thought I was referring too about people had 20 years ago about places like Charlotte. "Why would companies move to Charlotte if you can move to Atlanta?" What I'm saying is that Columbia will develop the local indusrty that will encourage compaies in that type of industry to move there, the whole if you build it they will come philosophy. I could really care less if any of the cities become the size of Tokyo I'm just illustrating what's going on right now, that's all.

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See this is a perfect example of the type of thought I was referring too about people had 20 years ago about places like Charlotte. "Why would companies move to Charlotte if you can move to Atlanta?" What I'm saying is that Columbia will develop the local indusrty that will encourage compaies in that type of industry to move there, the whole if you build it they will come philosophy. I could really care less if any of the cities become the size of Tokyo I'm just illustrating what's going on right now, that's all.

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Sandlapper, I think you are very optimistic, but Charlotte had some things going for it that Columbia doesn't. First, the annnexation laws in North Carolina are much less stringent than in SC. Next, the I-85 corridor from Atlanta to Richmond was a real big draw. Thats why Greenville-Spartanburg was able to pick up on some of that growth and economics. True, Columbia does have a big university, but that doesn't neccesarily turn into a magnet for growth. Columbia needs to spread beyond USC and try to attract business in some other fashion. Very poor PR doesn't help a city. True, Charlotte was just another city in the south during the erly part of the 20th century, but because of great PR and expansion along I-85 it was able to stretch out. Columbia, in my opinon and much to the same as others will not become a major city. This is not any attempt to downplay Columbia's place in the south, but it just doesn't tend to be growing in that fashion. It is a college town, but pretty much that is all that Columbia boasts itself for. Whats going on right now is similar to what happened during the early 1980s for Columbia and the early 1960s. The capital city tends to pick up speed then lose it after a while.

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I don't ever see a city in SC ever becoming a big city. Why would companies want to locate in Columbia or Greenville when big cities like Atlanta and Charlotte are nearby. Nobody outside of the Southeast has heard of Columbia or Greenville. The only city people might know in SC is Charleston. That is just my opinion though.

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ATLman1, maybe you should get out more. People outside the south have heard and do know of Greenville. This past year while flying into Munich, Germany, there was a nice glossy add for Greenville in Lufthansa airlines magazine.......and considering Greenville, SC is one of the top metro areas in the US for percent of European investment, that tells me that LOTS of people have definitely heard of it.

BMW execs heard of Upstate and built their only US operation heard. Michelin execs heard of Upstate and built their North American Headquarters. Royal Bank of Canada execs heard of Upstate and headquartered RBC Liberty Insurance in the city. Bowater of Canada execs heard and built their US headquarters. Fuji Film, Hitachi, Kemet, Dennys Corp Headquarters, Extended Stay America Corp Headquarters, Bosch, Ryans Restaurant Corp Headquarters, World Acceptance Corp Headquarters, South Financial Group Corp Headquarters, Honeywell, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi Fibers, Miliken Corp Headquarters, Bi-Lo Corp Headquarters, Royal Ahold Operations Center, Glaxo Smith Kline, BIC, Grainger Corp, Walgreens Distro, Jack in the Box Southeast Training Center, Nuvox Corp Headquarters, Verizon Regional Headquarters, Charter Communications Regional Headquarters.....and on and on and on and on.

Maybe you should visit Upstate sometime so you are aware of it....seems like the rest of the world is very aware.....don't want you to be left behind. :)

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carolinatraveler, I never said Columbia would turn into a big town? I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm simply saying it will see rapid growth soon, like similar southern cities did all those years back. There are several variables as too what makes a city grow. It's easy to say now that Columbia isn't "growing" eventhough the census says otherwise, because one of the main economic engines is in the process of being developed. The campus will be a joint effort of the private & public sector. Because of this research and development that goes on at the campus that's what will encourage like minded companies to move to the area. For example if you are into "bio-tech" you go to Boston, Nova, San Diego, or RDU. If you are an oil company you go to Dallas or Houston. Now if you are in to hydrogen development, as hard as it is to believe, you will go to Columbia. In theory that is the drive behind the research campus. I've read an article or two about it, and even I have my doubts but it's suppposed to put Columbia in the same position to hydrogen that Houston is to oil. That's the type of impact this is supposed to have on the community, and state. I understaqnd that is hard concept to take in & I know people will boo & hiss at me all they want that's fine, I expect it, but I think it's ridiculous to say that the city will not see any significant rapid growth from this type of development. But if someone knows more about what's going one with it I'm willing to listen? I can't think of anything like this that went on during the 80's in the city. The 60's I don't know I wasn't alive then? Anyway as I stated earlier we'll see it's still to early to tell?

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Well gsupstate, being from Atlanta that doesn't really impress me at all. Greenville is still a SMALL city and will continue to be. The only reason Greenville exists is because it is located between Atlanta and Charlotte. Many of the companies you named off are not that impressive. I am shocked that an airline would actually have an add for Greenville. Trust me, if anyone is left behind it is you :rofl: .

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Well gsupstate, being from Atlanta that doesn't really impress me at all. Greenville is still a SMALL city and will continue to be. The only reason Greenville exists is because it is located between Atlanta and Charlotte. Many of the companies you named off are not that impressive. I am shocked that an airline would actually have an add for Greenville. Trust me, if anyone is left behind it is you :rofl: .

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Golly geeeeeeee......bein all barfoot and ignoruuunt hear n Greenvuul, please learn bout the big city life!! Wish I's as eddukated as you-ins all over there in Georgie! :rofl:

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It is truly sad that you have to embarrass yourself like that  :thumbsup: . And for the educated part, Atlanta is one of the most educated cities in America.

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I'm not embarrassed. Lighten up. ;)

Come visit Greenville for a weekend....I'll show you around. In my 38 years of travel, I've learn to never discount or look down my nose at any place. I've made lasting friends and found much wisdom and joy in some of the most unconventional places in the 4 corners of this earth.

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To all of you rebutting back and forth about Col- and GSA, you must realize that none of these is growing as fast as the coastal areas, period... But no one seems to care about that. So go on living in your deluded world and forget about reality because that seems to work for you.

Just a couple of replies,

First, you must realize that Gville, as well a Col are both growing in different ways. But to say that one is better than another is ludicrous. First, I have visited Gville and Col about 24 times per year for the past three years, and Col. has created a new downtown that is attracting business and prosperity whereas Gville has a tired industrial look with too much sprawl. I don't care what anyone says, sprawl is not a good thing... Sprawl creates small strip malls and eyesores where companies do not want to invest due to the fact that they would have to put too much money into fixing the property up, plus it drives the value of the surrounding property down. Therefore stating that Gville will benefit from sprawl shows that you are not sure what you are talking about.

To reiterate, it is safe to say that according to percentage, neither area is growing as fast (as far as property value and business) as the coastal areas, so if you are only interested in your alliance to your region, that is fine, but don't disguise it as something else.

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While Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson probably has more sprawl than Columbia, both of them have a gracious plenty of it.

Speaking of sprawl, I saw this item in the new issue of the Greenville Journal...

Greenville chosen for smart growth initiative

The city of Greenville has been selected along with Chattahoochee Hill Country, Fulton County GA (Atlanta), Coconino County AZ, and Davis CA to become part of the Smart Growth Leadership Institute's Implementation Assistance Program. They join nine other communities selected last year to work with the SGLI team to implement such smart growth policies as revitizing older neighborhoods, protecting farm land, providing transpaortation and housing choices, and enhancing environmental quality. Funding is provided by the US Environmental Protection Agency.

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To all of you rebutting back and forth about Col- and GSA, you must realize that none of these is growing as fast as the coastal areas, period...  But no one seems to care about that.  So go on living in your deluded world and forget about reality because that seems to work for you.

Just a couple of replies,

  First, you must realize that Gville, as well a Col are both growing in different ways.  But to say that one is better than another is ludicrous.  First, I have visited Gville and Col about 24 times per year for the past three years, and Col. has created a new downtown that is attracting business and prosperity whereas Gville has a tired industrial look with too much sprawl.  I don't care what anyone says, sprawl is not a good thing...  Sprawl creates small strip malls and eyesores where companies do not want to invest due to the fact that they would have to put too much money into fixing the property up, plus it drives the value of the surrounding property down.  Therefore stating that Gville will benefit from sprawl shows that you are not sure what you are talking about.

  To reiterate, it is safe to say that according to percentage, neither area is growing as fast (as far as property value and business) as the coastal areas, so if you are only interested in your alliance to your region, that is fine, but don't disguise it as something else.

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They aren't growing as fast (percentage wise) as Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head, but if you look at 20 year growth, both Columbia and Greenville outpace metro Charleston.

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It is amazing some of the posts that have come on here in the last few days. The thing is, some of them just joined! And I never realized that someone from the ATL could be so arrogant. ATL wasn't always a big place. People from Charlotte don' t seem near as arrogant and it is a wonderful city. I guess I asked for it when I started this thread. :rolleyes:

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Well gsupstate, being from Atlanta that doesn't really impress me at all. Greenville is still a SMALL city and will continue to be. The only reason Greenville exists is because it is located between Atlanta and Charlotte. Many of the companies you named off are not that impressive. I am shocked that an airline would actually have an add for Greenville. Trust me, if anyone is left behind it is you :rofl: .

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Woah! What in the world was that?! You tell me why Greenville became known as "the Textile Capitol of the World" then. If Atlanta and Charlotte were sucking the business and industry out of the southeast for a hundred years then obviously Greenville would have dried up decades ago. Instead, it thrived and far outpaced anywhere else in the World in this industry. :)

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Again, it seems as though people are debating employment markets that will be phased out in coming years, and who is better in a pissing contest between 2 cities that are growing at around the same rate. As for the EPA community grant, I believe that Gville was chosen for this because it is close to ATL. Likewise, being a grant person, if you get funding from the EPA, it is usually to clean up an environmental mess that an industry produced (textile mills anyone?) and bring cheaper housing into the area. If this is the type of funding Gville is getting, I'm not so sure I would be proud of it. Time may be better spent in developing research endeavors in new markets, not trying to grow off of old manufactoring jobs. This is not going to bring people to the area who will invest brainpower and innovation, but rather individuals (and employers) who will want to exploit the workers in the area and create a different set of problems (i.e. low wages for the worker & tax cuts for the wealthy).

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Please excuss me if this posting is rough seeing as this is my first posting. I do believe that greenville is on the right path to becoming a large city. There are several reasons that lead me to my belief. 1st and formost is the ICAR research facility. I believe that this research park will bring a inflex of new buisness,and people.With more people there comes more need for housing,resturants,ect.2cnd is with more international firms moving to the upstate (ex. global trade center ) greenville is becoming a internationaly reconised name.

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Please excuss me if this posting is rough seeing as this is my first posting. I do believe that greenville is on the right path to becoming a large city. There are several reasons that lead me to my belief. 1st and formost is the ICAR research facility. I believe that this research park will bring a inflex of new buisness,and people.With more people there comes more need for housing,resturants,ect.2cnd is with more international firms moving to the upstate (ex. global trade center ) greenville is becoming a internationaly reconised name.

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I would say that Greenville is definitly on the right track to becoming a big city. I lived in Charlotte N.C. for 12 years before it started to grow. I can see similiarites between where Charlotte was and where Greenville is going. 5 years from today and I think that Greenville will far surpass Columbia, and every other city in SC. Greenville is on the path to becoming the international business blueprint for the south.

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It is amazing some of the posts that have come on here in the last few days. The thing is, some of them just joined! And I never realized that someone from the ATL could be so arrogant. ATL wasn't always a big place. People from Charlotte don' t seem near as arrogant and it is a wonderful city. I guess I asked for it when I started this thread. :rolleyes:

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Thanks montenterprises for that comment. It also wasn't that long ago when ATL was just as segregated and racist as other states in the South. As a matter of fact, it still is.

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Wow, you skip town for a weekend and everything changes! Welcome to the 5 new members since my last visit:

randy1

mothwomanwv

carolinatraveler

jfl25

deltad22

I look forward to reading everyone's replies B)

I don't ever see a city in SC ever becoming a big city. Why would companies want to locate in Columbia or Greenville when big cities like Atlanta and Charlotte are nearby. Nobody outside of the Southeast has heard of Columbia or Greenville. The only city people might know in SC is Charleston. That is just my opinion though.

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This is sheer ignorance to me. You assume that all people want to live and locate in large cities.

Likewise, being a grant person, if you get funding from the EPA, it is usually to clean up an environmental mess that an industry produced (textile mills anyone?) and bring cheaper housing into the area. 

This is not going to bring people to the area who will invest brainpower and innovation, but rather individuals (and employers) who will want to exploit the workers in the area and create a different set of problems (i.e. low wages for the worker & tax cuts for the wealthy).

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The textile mills located in the Upstate due to the many streams that flor through the area. They used these for natural powering, and wern't that polluting. The problem lies mainly in the high automobile use in the Upstate. Of course, this is not to say that there aren't any polluting industries.

I disagree with the second part on many levels. (I was going to go into that more, but I've decided not to)

The two posts above that I have quoted are examples of what I do not like to see.
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People love Greenville for many reasons. Here's one person's view on a particular topic which causes the city to be attractive. :)

Greenville is a 'cool' town if you want to hear live music

Posted Monday, January 24, 2005 - 1:16 am

Greenville is noted for a number of things: a vibrant downtown, a great place to raise a family, the center of commerce in South Carolina and more.

On the downside, it's not considered cool, so it's hard to keep young people from moving away because there is nothing to do here, you know, the party and bar scene. Here is a part of that problem: The city is not known for its music scene.

Pardon me if I beg to differ. Greenville does have a music scene. Oh, it's not in the league of an Austin, Texas, or even an Athens, Ga., both considered cool and both considered music meccas. What do those towns have Greenville doesn't? Major universities.

Many, maybe most, hate to leave college behind. I would have loved to have stayed in college another 10 years. I had so much fun and it was so cool, but hey, you've got to grow up sometime.

I put growing up off as long as I could. I was about halfway there when I moved to Greenville. I was in my late 30s at the time, in the waning stages of my bout with the Peter Pan Syndrome.

I have never been to Austin, but I was born and raised in Athens. For as long as I can remember, music was a part of my life. I listened to the Chuck Wagon Gang on the car radio while my mother was grocery shopping. I loved much of my parents' music, particularly the Andrew Sisters, Mills Brothers and Ink Spots.

Later I discovered rock 'n' roll, Buddy Holly, Rick Nelson, Little Richard, all of them, but I never saw any of them live. The reason is simple. Until the later years of my college career, which by the way only lasted four years, Athens wasn't a music town.

That began changing when a little bohemian bar called The Last Resort opened. That hole in the wall was the genesis of the Athens music scene. I suppose if a comparison could be made, it was to Athens what the Handlebar is to Greenville.

But that doesn't quite work, because there was music in Greenville long before the Handlebar opened.

During my early years here, which was before downtown became all the rage, I heard people such as Jack Williams and his band, the Fifth String, a fine bluegrass band, and once I stumbled across a good country singer named Aaron Tippin playing in a small club on Wade Hampton. If I wanted live music, I could always find it.

Later there was Al's Pumphouse, where I had the pleasure of hearing Guy Clark for the first time and a lot of others, including Hootie and the Blowfish. Then came the Handlebar. Now, as the downtown area continues to prosper, there are host of music venues such as the Bohemian Cafe and Bar, Coffee Underground and at least a half-dozen other restaurant/bars downtown that offer live music.

There are also four outdoor venues for street performers and the free concerts during the spring and summer. Music has always been in Greenville, and it's only getting better, which as my oldest son might say, is way cool.

My point is this: If Greenville has a cool problem, it's not for want of live music.

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