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Main St Greenville vs Main St Columbia


vicupstate

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That's just it, Columbia's focus is not on Main St. at the time it's focus has been on Gervais (Vista) and 5 points, I don't think the main street USA model is what Columbia has set its money on right now. I think that in the near future Main St. will be a destination again but I think the bigger picture is that there are already two places in the city that have the same vibe that Main St. Gville has so I don't think it matters if it's called Main St. or tenth st. the activity is still there? It's almost like comparing Stone Ave. (Greenville) to Gervais (Columbia).

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The point of downtown Greenville is being missed. Main Street is not "A District or An area". Main street started as a core that has radiated out and now encompasses all of downtown. Greenville's districts are all connected and all walkable. Main Street to West End to North Main soon to Cleveland Park, etc etc, etc. All are interconnected and all are about walkability. You don't need a car. Additionally, Greenville's downtown is not simply an entertainment district, it's a 24 / 7 live, work, play (business center, arts center, shopping center, political center, livable area). You can now live downtown and walk to everything you need....you have no need for a car. That's the core definition of urban.

If Columbia could merge the Vista with Main and create one large area, I think that would benefit the city. Merging Five Point would be a little more difficult as it's further and is it's own district. I consider Five Points and Devine Street to be more like Greenville's Augusta Road area. Close, but a bit far to merge. I love the energy of the Vista when I visit Columbia....it's great! Would love to see that spill over and connect with Columbia's core.

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Just for the record. I have never viewed Main Street and the West End as one. They share a street name and that's it. Success didn't come to the West End until recently as opposed to the CBD version of Main Street. I see the Central Business District stopping at the Peace Center and the West End District starting at RiverPlace (as I believe I am correct in saying the city groups them together this way, as well).

Lumping them together would be like considering Laurens Rd in Greenville to where it become Main St in Mauldin and then in Simpsonville and back to Laurens Rd again out in the country. They are very different areas that share the same road and name.

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The point of downtown Greenville is being missed.  Main Street is not "A District or An area".  Main street started as a core that has radiated out and now encompasses all of downtown.  Greenville's districts are all connected and all walkable.  Main Street to West End to North Main soon to Cleveland Park, etc etc, etc.  All are interconnected and all are about walkability.  You don't need a car.  Additionally, Greenville's downtown is not simply an entertainment district, it's a 24 / 7 live, work, play (business center, arts center, shopping center, political center, livable area).  You can now live downtown and walk to everything you need....you have no need for a car.  That's the core definition of urban.

If Columbia could merge the Vista with Main and create one large area, I think that would benefit the city.  Merging Five Point would be a little more difficult as it's further and is it's own district.  I consider Five Points and Devine Street to be more like Greenville's Augusta Road area.  Close, but a bit far to merge.  I love the energy of the Vista when I visit Columbia....it's great!  Would love to see that spill over and connect with Columbia's core.

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I don't see the Vista and Main St as being conceptually different than Greenville's CBD/Main St. Yeah, they are classified separately in Cola, but it just changes at Assembly. That doesn't mean people can't cross it. Infact, many do. This is why I think the Vista should be expanded to include Main St.

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I don't see the Vista and Main St as being conceptually different than Greenville's CBD/Main St. Yeah, they are classified separately in Cola, but it just changes at Assembly. That doesn't mean people can't cross it. Infact, many do. This is why I think the Vista should be expanded to include Main St.

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My point exactly Spartan! One street, Assembly, separates The Vista from downtown. Why then, has Main Street Columbia not developed? What is keeping the people in The Vista from crossing over? Columbia's ENTIRE downtown has the potential to be dynamic!

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True, but at the moment it isn't preventing any expansion of the entertainment district like Assembly seems to be doing.

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Says who? That's probably why downtown is growing in the southern direction and not towards Stone... Not only that, but it keeps people from connecting to Heritage Green aswell. It is a barrier and it's probably pretty safe to say that it's the reason development isn't popping up in that direction because of fears of lack of success...

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In terms of an entertainment district, Greenville doesn't stretch much past Main St. Maybe a block or two. I know I never have to go past Richardson unless I am going to hit Academy to loop around to 385. So to compare it to Assembly, which is literally the boundary of the Vista, is hard to do.

There is a large section of N Main between Beattie and Academy that seems to be of little appeal to the entertainment aspects of Main St. Besides, the southern growth could be attributed to the gentler slope or the Reedy River, or the fact that most of the original growth is between the Hilton and the Peace Center, which likely generated foot traffic. There are probably others, and I suspect Academy's width is not one of the big ones.

Certainly there are comparisons in that both need to be delt with to break that barrier.

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I agree that there should be reasonable efforts to connect Main Street to the Vista. I personally think a pedestrian bridge over Assembly might be excessive, but there should be . I don't know if street-facing retail on the first floor of the Capitol Center/Wachovia tower is feasible, but that might be an idea to start with, plus developing the parking lot on the corner of Assembly & Gervais, next to Mellow Mushroom.

That being said, I don't think people should lose too much sleep over Main Street not quite reaching the "24/7"-ness of The Vista or 5 Points. I worked in the heart of the "Loop" in downtown Chicago from 1999-2001. Let me tell you that even with Chicago's rich urban life, there were many blocks around my office that pretty much shut down after 5pm. There were a lot of banks, lawyers' offices, government offices, etc. - and they were pretty much 8-5 areas. Folks usually migrated to the outskirts of downtown, like River North, Lincoln Park, Wicker Park, etc., often where many workers actually lived, to go to bars, clubs, etc. Much of the Loop itself was like a giant version of Columbia's Main Street - filled with white-collar workers during the day, and emptied at night. The reality is, even in cities as small as Columbia, that different functions will be segregated somewhat on a certain level. If you're a professional in a relatively straight-laced environment, such as a law firm or government office, then it's probably unrealistic to expect a funky club next door, even if there are a lot of folks like you who work nearby and like funky clubs.

Also, while the Vista, Main Street, 5 Points, Devine St., etc. are not end-to-end walkable, they are relatively close and conveniently located - I would be a lot less stressed about driving between these points during a single evening and finding parking, compared to trying a similar thing in DC or Chicago. I can still remember many frustrating nights driving between downtown DC, DuPont Circle, Adams Morgan, etc. trying to find parking between a movie, dinner, or dessert (while the Metro and taxis are there - inevitably you end up using a car from time to time). While the pedestrian connection definitely need to be worked on, the beauty of a small city like Columbia is that these areas are otherwise quite convenient to each other.

Moreover, according to one article I read in The State (http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/12209576.htm), the Vista has more trouble attracting business patrons during the daytime (the flip side of the Main Street problem) - so it's not only that Main Street that has to be addressed, as nice as the Vista is.

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In terms of an entertainment district, Greenville doesn't stretch much past Main St. Maybe a block or two. I know I never have to go past Richardson unless I am going to hit Academy to loop around to 385. So to compare it to Assembly, which is literally the boundary of the Vista, is hard to do.

There is a large section of N Main between Beattie and Academy that seems to be of little appeal to the entertainment aspects of Main St. Besides, the southern growth could be attributed to the gentler slope or the Reedy River, or the fact that most of the original growth is between the Hilton and the Peace Center, which likely generated foot traffic. There are probably others, and I suspect Academy's width is not one of the big ones.

Certainly there are comparisons in that both need to be delt with to break that barrier.

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Whoops sorry. Going back and reading I realize now. I was referring to Beattie Pl, but yall were talking about Academy. :blush:

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I agree that there should be reasonable efforts to connect Main Street to the Vista.  I personally think a pedestrian bridge over Assembly might be excessive, but there should be .  I don't know if street-facing retail on the first floor of the Capitol Center/Wachovia tower is feasible, but that might be an idea to start with, plus developing the parking lot on the corner of Assembly &  Gervais, next to Mellow Mushroom.

That being said, I don't think people should lose too much sleep over Main Street not quite reaching the "24/7"-ness of The Vista or 5 Points.  I worked in the heart of the "Loop" in downtown Chicago from 1999-2001.  Let me tell you that even with Chicago's rich urban life, there were many blocks around my office that pretty much shut down after 5pm.  There were a lot of banks, lawyers' offices, government offices, etc. - and they were pretty much 8-5 areas.  Folks usually migrated to the outskirts of downtown, like River North, Lincoln Park, Wicker Park, etc., often where many workers actually lived, to go to bars, clubs, etc.  Much of the Loop itself was like a giant version of Columbia's Main Street - filled with white-collar workers during the day, and emptied at night.  The reality is, even in cities as small as Columbia, that different functions will be segregated somewhat on a certain level.  If you're a professional in a relatively straight-laced environment, such as a law firm or government office, then it's probably unrealistic to expect a funky club next door, even if there are a lot of folks like you who work nearby and like funky clubs.

Also, while the Vista, Main Street, 5 Points, Devine St., etc. are not end-to-end walkable, they are relatively close and conveniently located - I would be a lot less stressed about driving between these points during a single evening and finding parking, compared to trying a similar thing in DC or Chicago.  I can still remember many frustrating nights driving between downtown DC, DuPont Circle, Adams Morgan, etc. trying to find parking between a movie, dinner, or dessert (while the Metro and taxis are there - inevitably you end up using a car from time to time).  While the pedestrian connection definitely need to be worked on, the beauty of a small city like Columbia is that these areas are otherwise quite convenient to each other.

Moreover, according to one article I read in The State (http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/12209576.htm), the Vista has more trouble attracting business patrons during the daytime (the flip side of the Main Street problem) - so it's not only that Main Street that has to be addressed, as nice as the Vista is.

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I just don't like the idea of pedestrian bridges unless they are set up like the ones going to Strom or from the Blossom St garage to McBryde.

I can't imagine any pedestrian bridge going over assembly working out.

And GvilleSC- Beattie Pl is a different thing altogether. But the one way traffic creates a different situation. That couldbe better or wose, depending on how you want to look at it.

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For some reason, I think of the pedestrian bridge built over SC 277 in regards to one being built over Assembly; it will barely be utilized. I don't think I've ever seen anyone on that bridge as many times as I've driven down 277.

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Exactly! I heard that the people still cross 277 over the fence. What a waste of good pork.

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That being said, I don't think people should lose too much sleep over Main Street not quite reaching the "24/7"-ness of The Vista or 5 Points.  I worked in the heart of the "Loop" in downtown Chicago from 1999-2001.  Let me tell you that even with Chicago's rich urban life, there were many blocks around my office that pretty much shut down after 5pm.  There were a lot of banks, lawyers' offices, government offices, etc. - and they were pretty much 8-5 areas.

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Good overall points in your post. However, allow me to compare Columbia to a city not too much bigger, and closer: Charlotte (yeah, we know they tore down a bunch of historical stuff; get over it :P ). Being that I work there and venture into Uptown on a regular basis, I'm pretty familiar with where the hoppin' spots are inside the I-277 loop, which are concentrated along Tryon (the city's Main Street), College, Church, and to a lesser extent, Trade streets. I believe the city has done a pretty good job of mixing "corporate" with "funky" on the same street. For instance, Bank of America and Hearst towers (the two tallest in the city) can be accessed from Tryon and College, yet within those areas along those streets there are various restaurants and venues that have the capacity to draw folks after 5 pm and even into the wee hours of the morning. Yet, there are areas Uptown that are very much corporate and have a population of zero in the evenings (e.g., portions of Brevard, Caldwell, McDowell, etc.); even the south ends of Tryon, College, and Church (within the CBD) are pretty sparsely populated in the evenings. Although I understand the differences between the layouts of the two cities (Columbia has distinct entertainment districts downtown, while Charlotte does not), I still think the point can be made that there can indeed be a harmonious blend between the two features.

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I believe the city (Charlotte) has done a pretty good job of mixing "corporate" with "funky" on the same street.

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You bring up a good point, krazeeboi - since I've poked around uptown Charlotte a bit. While the overall feel of Charlotte, including uptown, is still decidedly modern-suburban corporate, I did notice some interesting "funky" venues intermixed and a bit scattered in and around uptown. Which means they aren't too far, even in terms of walking distance, from the corporate stuff. We might be able to debate the psychological perceptions of going from "corporate" to "funky", but there doesn't appear to be a perceived barrier like an Assembly Street in Columbia. Plus, with Charlotte being a relatively newer and smaller city (compared to NY/Chicago/etc.), Uptown's high density and building height quickly peters out into a low-rise landscape, which allows for, say, a small warehouse off the edge of Uptown to become a club or something.

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