Charlotte: South Park stuff

[urban designer]

Raleigh-NC,

Good points...however, do not discount Raleigh as a "small city". The problem with Raleigh is that it has probably more potential than the other big NC metros...unfortunately, I see/saw that potential repeatedly squandered by in-fighting, egos, and the inability to "think big".

I hope, for all NC's sake, that Raleigh-Durham starts acting / thinking like the big metro it is quickly becoming. I hope you're right, and the tide has begun to turn!!!

[Raleigh-NC]

Urban Designer, while the Triangle is a large metro, Raleigh is far from being a big city. Mid-size, maybe, but the local people cannot think outside the city's current status, let alone think big. I agree 110% with what you said, and I am only optimistic about the fact that the city government is finally realizing Raleigh's potential. The mistake that I see being made is that they try to revitalize downtown, but there is little talk about the areas outside the center. So far, the city has shown interest in Downtown, Hillsborough Street, Crabtree Valley and South East Raleigh. There is still a fight for West Raleigh, where the potential is great and there is a little momentum. Outside these areas I have seen little mention of any plans. True, the city is trying to make sure that sidewalks exist on both sides for newer, non-subdivision type of developments, but what about the rest?

What strikes me is that the city is waiting for those random acts of good development (e.g. The Paramount), but tends to forget that there is more to be done outside the center than inside. Now, don't get me wrong... initiatives for downtown growth should be placed on the top of the list, but should be followed closely by strong guidelines outside the core. If you look at my posts, both in this forum and in Skyspraperpage.com, you will see which places I consider prime for [good] urban development. In particular, Capital Blvd/South Sauders Rd, Six Forks Rd, Falls of Neuse/Wake Forest Rd, Atlantic Ave, Glenwood Ave, Hillsborough St, Blue Ridge Rd and Creedmoor Rd are perfect candidates. We could add more (e.g. Western Blvd, New Bern Ave), but then we'll expand the list too far, thus making it impossible to create a vision based on the true capabilities of the city. If Raleigh begins with the above roads, the rest will follow.

In my opinion, Raleigh's leadership appears to be: 1) afraid, 2) unaware, 3) blind, 4) overwhelmed, or 5) all of the above. Personally, I think they are very much aware of the true potential, but they are scared to death to move forward. Unless major corporations, such as Progress Energy, jump in, with both feet, and help the revitalization of the core even more, Raleigh's ledership will not have the energy, and/or time to enforce the existing guidelines. Sure, they will need to work hard on the zoning, but it is feasible. As you know, Urban Designer, egos must be moved aside before real work gets done. Once some of the major obstacles get removed, I have a feeling that Raleigh (and not only) will definitely show its true potential, before it joins the "big city" league, but it won't be tomorrow.

[pompeyjohnson]

UH-OH! Here I come mister optimistic ...to the rescue..................

I'm a dreamer but on the flip side of that, I do realize there is a lot to be doe in raleigh before it can get to the its desired status!

[uptownliving]

What is the desired status of Raleigh?

[Raleigh-NC]

Uptownliving: The answer I am about to give you is ONLY my own opinion as to what Raleigh can become. The answer is: [the equivalent of] Portland, OR. Not Seattle, Washington, DC, or Atlanta. Portland's infrastructure cannot be matched by Raleigh, today, but then again Portland did not become a model city overnight. It took it many years of planning, and it happened when its powers-to-be realized that things could get out of control (especially the environmental issues).

Raleigh, whether we like it, or not, is the Capitol of North Carolina, so it needs to improve its image... big time. In terms of health and education infrastructure, Raleigh can only get better. Add the proximity to RTP and we have a great opportunity for maintaining a good status when it comes to Science, Health and Education. While bringing some corporations downtown is a priority, we are far from achieving the ideal mix of employment opportunities; why putting all the eggs in one basket? Charlotte is a great model of success when it comes to bringing finance-related companies downtown, but Raleigh won't succeed.

When it comes to urban design, transportation and environment, Raleigh has an uphill battle to face. Developers and NIMBYs seem to control most "pawns" in the city government, with only a few real fighters remaining to push for improvement in the aforementioned areas. The guidelines are there, and so are the initiatives. What's left is to implement them, but this is also the hardest part. Should the city go against the voters/loud mouths of the NIMBY foundation, or against the developers, who can take their business elsewhere? If Raleigh says no, Durham may say yes. We definitely do NOT want to become a huge city, with borders near Virginia. That is why I use Portland as a model. I am not suggesting that Portland is perfect, or that it has the be-all, end-all solution, but in my opinion (and not only mine) Portland has it all for a city its size (I am referring to the area within city limits).

Raleigh has a great chance to bring density, mixed-use and create destinations closer to the center. The area between Glenwood South and Dawson, from Peace Street to Martin Luther King/Western Blvd is an outstanding candidate for such dense development, with residential, retail and entertainment destinations. Again, there are many proposals... most of them good, but the local economy needs to improve ASAP in order to see which direction Raleigh truly needs to go. For every development downtown, it is safe to assume that another one in the suburbs is stopped. Just an assumption, and I am sure it has its flaws.

We can sit down and spend a whole day discussing my "vision" for DT Raleigh, but it won't make the slightest difference if the rest of the people are not in sync with me, and vice versa. Quite frankly (unlike Charlotte) Raleigh still has a problem finding its true identity and purpose. Something seems to be holding this city's leadership from creating a large vision. I think that things are happening here, but very silently. Some day we'll wake up and most of the dreams we had for this city will be materialized, except we won't be satisfied. Raleigh needs to adopt a vision that will allow the city to grow without expanding outwards.

Hey, you asked the right question. I wish I could answer it properly and objectively.

[uptownliving]

I was over at SouthPark Mall tonight and saw the DuPont building on Fairview across from Nordstroms already completly decked out in Christmas decorations. I wish I had my cam to take a pic, becasue this was not just throwing up some lights in the trees, but having a full fledged 20 ft Christmas tree along with Santa in a sleigh with all the reindeer on the roof, and frosty the snow man in the front yard.

I am more of a traditional person when it comes to Christmas...I don't actually decorate till December.

[pompeyjohnson]

switching back to Southpark comparison.........

If any area in Durham seemed to have a "southpak" potential its the Southsqaure area.

[uptownliving]

I don't know if that's a good comparison Pompey. SouthSquare is not very upscale...its got car dealerships, Targets, Wal-Marts, etc....you don't find that in SouthPark...it is all very upscale....just take a drive down here, and come see it for yourself.

[pompeyjohnson]

ok. I'll stop with the comparisons. It was being done on a competition level. I just was trying to find a spot in the city that had development because of a mall. In most cities, malls initiate development That's the point I was making. There are alot of 5 to 6 story midrises in that area where south square used to be.

[pompeyjohnson]

monsoon, to answer your question. South Square is in the south west part of the city, located off of the Chapel Hill- Durham blvd. (US 15-501)

[JunktionFET]

That brings up a question... There are houses in the South Park area that are much older than South Park Mall. I always thought that South Park started out as a remote South Charlotte neighborhood, with the mall coming later on in life--followed by the office development.