Which city has most potential

[TopTenn]

BTW, where'd you kids hear about the prospect of a retractable roof for the Coliseum? That's more of a pipe dream if anything; the stadium was not built with a retractable roof in mind and would be almost impossible to retrofit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The nashville city council really wants the super bowl but were not a very warm climate city so there solution was a retactable roof

[it's just dave]

I don't think a retractable roof is in the future for the Coliseum. At least not on my property-owning, tax-paying, other things need to be fixed first watch. I love the games, and I love being in the open air...even in the rain.

A SuperBowl would be okay, I guess. But why spend the money? We're already famous. Right?

[DallasTexan]

I thought so. I knew Nashville was smart enough not to try and do something like that!

If you want a dome with a retractable roof, well, move to Birmingham... Urg.

After trying to die ten times already, and getting shot down repeatedly, the dome is not dead...

[brewerw]

Everytime someone plays in a dome they get hurt. I despise domes. Minnisota and Indy suck cause their in domes. Thats the real reason. They used to be outside and it was alot harder to play in Minnisota and Baltimore outside than Minnisota and Indy inside.

The roof was a vision. I PROMISE it wont happen.

[vandiver49]

I don't know why people are under the impression that ATL is going to fold up like some Northern Rust Belt city. That day is a long way off. As for potential cities, NASH has the people and the infrustructure, but I don't know if they're looking far enough into the future. In terms of planning I think JAX is more prepared, eventhough they aren't nearly as far along. One advantage the JAX has is that the city/county are the same thing. This makes it infinately easier to impliment construction projects that having different municipalities bickering about what to do. I think it wil be a interesting race.

[bobliocatt]

Could you tell me what is going on in Nashville that indicates that its far above Jax? As far as the city/county thing, Nashville, Jacksonville and Louisville, all are consolidated cities, thus they enjoy the same benefit.

[BrandonTO416]

I abstained from voting because none of the mentioned cities hold promise for me, although Jacksonville would seem more interesting out of the bunch. I think it'd be the most socially progressive out of them all.

[BrandonTO416]

Fine, I lied. I ended up voting for Jacksonville.

[it's just dave]

I don't know about Jacksonville, but Nashville consolidated the governments 40 years ago, and I think Jacksonville really wasn't that far behind. I'm sure we've both realized lots of benefits from that. In fact, all this talk about what amounts to satellite cities around Charlotte, Birmingham, Memphis, Raleigh and others just confounds me. It mostly sounds like instead of united metros and regional planning, the Hatfields and McCoys are engaged in some sort of feuding system of regional planning. All I've known is metro government so I can't really even participate in discussions of the traditional governmental factions because, quite frankly, I'm not savvy in that system.

I'm not the one saying anything about Nashville being ahead of anybody in any of these ridiculous contests. All I know is that Nashville is sprouting a new sense of civic pride, urban "plans" and visions, and where we sit on the bus of southern cities certainly isn't in the back. Remember, the seats on the front of the bus are parallel, I don't pay too much attention to who's sitting on subsequent rows. We have exellent company at the front. Let's leave the squabbling to the "other passengers."

[DallasTexan]

Well, Dave, I gotta admit - I was wrong. Consolidation has worked well in Nashville's favor.

As you know, I used to be a large opponent of it, but now I guess you could say that I've seen the light. After moving to Birmingham and actually witnessing the squabbles first hand -- yikes. So much more could be done (ie: the dome) with a more streamlined government. I don't think consolidation would work entirely in Birmingham's favor though, as the county is over 1,100 square miles. In our case, I would just push for more annexation to around 400 sq. miles and be done with it, or maybe even push to split the county into two seperate entities.

[it's just dave]

Your 400 sq. mile suggestion might make sense afterall. I didn't realize Jeffco was so large.

[DallasTexan]

Yeah, its size is a big reason why there is so much in-county fighting in Birmingham... the city has to deal with the majority of the suburbs AND a large variety of rural people.

Just imagine if Davidson County were to be combined with either Rutherford or Williamson... nothing would EVER get done. You'd have all the people who are afraid of the city and the ones who think ANY civic expenditure is evil screaming constantly about everything.

ugh

[vicupstate]

Well, Dave, I gotta admit - I was wrong. Consolidation has worked well in Nashville's favor.

As you know, I used to be a large opponent of it, but now I guess you could say that I've seen the light. After moving to Birmingham and actually witnessing the squabbles first hand -- yikes. So much more could be done (ie: the dome) with a more streamlined government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What were some of your objections to consolidation? As an FYI to forumers, I have listed some figures below on consolidation natonally. This is from a 1972 report from a organization called NACO (National Association of Counties perhaps?), which I got from Jax City Hall several years back.

Mergers by Referendum:

Baton-Rouge-East Baton Rouge Parish LA - 1947

Hampton-Elizabeth City County VA - 1952

Nashville-Davidson TN -1962 (defeated in 1958)

Virginia Beach-Princess Anne County VA - 1962

South Norflok-Norfolk County VA - 1962

Jacksonville-Duval County FL - 1967

Juneau-Greater Juneau Borough Alaska - 1969

Carson City-Ormsby County NV - 1969

Columbus-Muscogee County GA - 1970 (defeated in 1962)

Sitka-Sitka Borough Alaska - 1971

Mergers by Legislative Action -

New Orleans-Orleans Parish LA - 1805

Boston-Suffolf County MA - 1821

Philadelphia - Philadelphia County PA - 1854

San Francisco - San Francisco County CA - 1856

New York-New York County NY - 1874

New York and Brooklyn-Queens and Richmond counties NY - 1898

Honolulu-Honolulu County HA - 1907

Indianapolis-Marion County IN - 1969

Areas that rejected consolidation: (I only listed the Southern cities from the report)

Macon - Bibb County GA - 1933,1960

Miami-Dade County FL - 1948, 1953

Knoxville-Knox County - 1959

Newport News-Harwick County-Elizabeth City County VA - 1950**

Durham-Durham County - 1961

Richmond-Henrico County VA - 1961

Memphis-Shelby County TN - 1962, 1971

Chattanooga-Hamilton County TN - 1964,1970

Tampa-Hillsborough County FL - 1967,1970

Athens-Clarke County GA - 1969**

Charlotte-Mecklenburg County NC - 1971

Tallahassee-Leon County FL - 1971

Pensacola-Escambia County FL - 1970

** Remember this is a 1972 report, I know Athens-Clarke has consolidated since then. I think Newport News may have as well.

I know Charleston-Charleston County SC rejected consolidation in 1974 as well.

Lots of TN, GA and FL representation.

[vicupstate]

^^

Some more in-depth info from the same report showed:

Nashville grew from 72.5 square miles and 255,000 population to 533 sq. miles and 410,000 population via consolidation.

Jackonville grew from 39 sq. miles and 198,200 population to 840 sq. miles and 525,000 population.

Indianapolis grew from 84 sq. miles and 525,000 population to 402 sq. miles and 742,000 population.

Columbus GA grew from 69.5 sq. miles and 152,218 population to 147.8 sq. miles and 164,235 population.

Juneau AK grew from 2.34 sq. miles and 7,313 population to 3,108 sq. miles and 13,895 population.

[it's just dave]

That's great historical info. Thanks.

Juneau. What can we say? Calling it the "Greater Juneau Borough"...they weren't kidding were they!

It'll be interesting to see what history has shown us to be the pros and cons which might influence upcoming referendums such as this.

Does Jacksonville still have little pockets that maintain their own little governments? In Nashville, we have Berry Hill, Belle Meade and Goodlettsville. They fall under the metro umbrella but still maintain their own city halls, police forces and such.

Also, is there a distinction in services districts. For example, I'm in the urban services district and pay a higher tax rate, but enjoy certain services such as chipper service, curbside recycling, soon to be automated trash pickup, street lights and such. Does Jax do the same type setup?

[vicupstate]

That's great historical info. Thanks.

Does Jacksonville still have little pockets that maintain their own little governments? In Nashville, we have Berry Hill, Belle Meade and Goodlettsville. They fall under the metro umbrella but still maintain their own city halls, police forces and such.

Also, is there a distinction in services districts. For example, I'm in the urban services district and pay a higher tax rate, but enjoy certain services such as chipper service, curbside recycling, soon to be automated trash pickup, street lights and such. Does Jax do the same type setup?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the small town of Baldwin in the Western part of Jax, and the Beach cities of Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach and Jacksonville Beach voted simulataneously for consolidation and to also remain as "independent cities" under the consolidated charter. The consolidated government serves as the county government to them and they levy their own taxes to support services that they themselves provide. These vary somewhat between the four. The consolidated government levies a tax countywide and then levies additional millage based on the services provided particular to each town.

Someone living in Jacksonville, exclusive of Baldwin and the Beach cities pays $9.69 per $1,000 in property value in taxes to the consolidated government. Residents in Baldwin or the beaches pay $6.40 per $1,000 to the same. Additionally, the consolidated government bills residents of Baldwin and the beaches rates ranging from $2.22 to $3.91 per $1,000 and disperses those funds to the respective independent city. Total taxes for each are:

Jax exclusive of Baldwin/Beaches: $9.69

Baldwin: $8.62

Neptune Beach: $9.30

Atlantic Beach: $9.44

Jacksonville Beach $10.31

Figures are rounded to the nearest cent and do not include school property taxes. Is that WAY more than you wanted to know?? LOL

[it's just dave]

Lol, no, not really. But now I think I know more about the Jax tax structure than I do the one in my own home town. Other forums often offer way more than I want to know, but so far, this one's doing great.

I appreciate the time you took to answer. It's also sometimes interesting to see how some of our southern metros are similar instead of trying so hard to convince each other that we're all one-of-a-kinds.

I'll be watching for some good Jax shots during the SuperBowl. I'm sure it'll look great.

[DallasTexan]

Why does this thread keep getting bumped up to the top even if it has no new replies!?

Argh!

[Spartan]

When people vote in the poll it bumps the thread.

[TopTenn]

TITANS 21---JAGUARS 17 Sounds good to me......

ps for people who don't know what I am talking about I am talking about the number of vote that nashville and jax recieved..

[bobliocatt]

We're too busy enjoying the super bowl festivities in town to get involved in a good debate. Just check us out on National TV on Sunday.

[FlaNatv]

It was a tough decision but I think Jax wins because of location. It is in Florida, one of the most business friendly states in the country with relativly low taxes. Also the beaches are a big draw for people in general. Nashville on the other hand is very attractive and is also booming. Weather in Nash can be bad but hurricanes threaten Jax so that evens out. I don't know much about the other places. They don't seem to make any list for top relocation cities.

[DallasTexan]

Yeah, but we got most liveable

[bobliocatt]

^depends on what you consider most livable?

[DallasTexan]

Heh, I know... I'm just basically saying that a list is a list is a list