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urban designer

Why Does Major League Baseball Snub the SE?

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Over 30 million people live between Baltimore and Atlanta (DC, NC, VA, SC)...including the coutnry's 5th largest urban center (Charlotte). Why has MLB ignored this region and not found a location for a MLB team?

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Part of the reason has to do with the fact that cities such as Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, and Nashville are in small television markets. Minneapolis has a market that is ranked 14th in the country and is still considered a small market club. I think D.C. will be the next place to land a MLB team unless the league wants to hit the Portland area first.

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Also, in regards to Charlotte being the fifth largest urban center; you are kinda off. Charlotte is located in the center of the fifth largest urban region. A region consisting of Baltimore, Washington D.C., Atlanta, etc. etc...

Here are the top six urban regions:

New York

Los Angeles

Chicago

Baltimore

San Francisco

Boston

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Charlotte is the 27th largest TV market

Raleigh is 29th

Greensboro is 35th

There are 30 MLB teams (minus two in Canada...)

These "small" NC markets = 2.8 million "households with TV" according to Nielson's.

If you can imagine a "North Carolina" franchise the TV market would be the 5th largest.

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Also, in regards to Charlotte being the fifth largest urban center; you are kinda off. Charlotte is located in the center of the fifth largest urban region. A region consisting of Baltimore, Washington D.C., Atlanta, etc. etc...

Here are the top six urban regions:

New York

Los Angeles

Chicago

Baltimore

San Francisco

Boston

The population number is based upon a 100-mile radius of the city center.

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House Rules?
The rules for the open debate forum:

house rules

Well, I don't think I would go out that much in -20 degree weather. I would stay in and watch TV.

LOL. I try to stay in when it's cold like that, but living in Michigan, it's really hard to get away from that. I avoid going outside at all costs. Going outside when it's like -20 out is the last thing I want to do...especially when it's like 6:30 in the morning, dark, & snowing. We've already had snow here, so as far as I'm concerned, the misery of winter has begun, & will probably last until March or April. I hate snow & cold. I'm hoping that we won't have any big snowfalls this winter...a couple of years ago we had 2' in only a few hours!! The only good thing that came out of that was entire week of missed school. Of course we had to make up 2 of the days at the end of the year. Only 7 more Michigan winters left for me, & then I'm moving some place with warm winters :)

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Come to North Carolina. :D

I just might end up there some day. I've been to North Carolina 3 or 4 times, & from what I've seen I think I'd like living there.

Actually if I could move anywhere I'd move to San Diego, but with my crappy architect's salary there is no way I'd ever be able to afford it...although I still hope that just maybe I'll get lucky and end up there somehow.

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What sport do you guys think Charlotte would rather have, MLB or NBA?

Urban Designer, what would the population be if you added up the totals within Charlotte's 100 mile radius? I doubt it would be the nation's 5th largest urban area. Also, there's a reason why Raleigh and Greensboro aren't included in Charlotte's market, just as Duluth and Rochester aren't included in the Minneapolis market. Therefore, why add them up and say that a North Carolina franchise would be the fifth largest?

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monsoon,

How often do you think we (metro Minneapolis - St. Paul ) get -20 degree weather? The only time we get the extreme cold is when there is a wicked wind chill.

Future Architect,

It's too bad that you are getting snow already. We're still getting the upper 50's and 60's.

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It's too bad that you are getting snow already. We're still getting the upper 50's and 60's.

We're supposed to be in the upper 50s & 60s around here, but we aren't. Michigan weather never like to be normal though, so that isn't too much of a surprise. At least the snow we got didn't stick around for long! It was gone a day after it snowed :). Lately we've been lucky to hit 50 for a high. Although it is supposed to be in the mid 50s for the next week or so. I don't really care though...as long as it doesn't snow again for a really really long time!

We do typically get one or 2 nights here in MI when it gets down to like -20 or so. We do have week after week of temperatures that don't get about 25 degrees though...I hate that!

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IMO it's child abuse to raise a child in an area where ponds don't freeze solid and kids don't miss a week of school for snow days!:D

btw- In 1952 Boston lost its beloved Braves, first to Milwaukee then Atlanta...that's in the SE.

http://www.bostonbraves.com

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IMO it's child abuse to raise a child in an area where ponds don't freeze solid and kids don't miss a week of school for snow days! :D

I was watching old home movies of me at like age 2...I hated snow even back when I was a little kid! So for me, being raised in a Michigan could be considered child abuse. You'd think a two-year-old would love the snow, and maybe the average two-year-old does, but I certainly didn't! The snow days are the only good thing about living in Michigan during the winter. Having a day or two of unplanned vacation time is always welcomed!

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I like the cold. I get to wear my Patriots pull-over and my L.L.Bean fleece and flannel lined jeans. They are so warm I walk around in a t-shirt most of the winter. You can go skiing in Vermont or Maine or Cow Hampshire...it's fun.

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Oh yes the reason is that the whole Southeast are members of the Red Sox nation and require no other team. ;)

GO SOX! GO CUBS!

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monsoon you are too funny. Actually, people in MN get out quite a bit during the colder winter months (late Dec. - Feb.) as well as the very humid summer periods (Jul - early Sept.). People in this state enjoy the extreme weather as well as their health. Therefore, not too many people sit around here. There is plenty of activity going on throughout the year. However, I guess the cold weather can be blamed for our excellent music scene, including musicians as well as venues.

"Very humid summer periods"?

Minnesota is the least humid place I've lived in or visited outside the west, and summers are delightful.

I would say, too, though that during summers in the south as many people stay indoors as people do in winter in MN. Nobody in their right mind would play golf in a place like Memphis or New Orleans at 2 PM during June, July, or August.

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Having lived in Denver, I can say that the Twin Cities is humid. Is it as constantly humid like parts of the south, no. But that's why I said periods of very humid weather, not months. Check out the average daily relative humidity for the following cities:

Denver - 40%.

Phoenix - 27%

New Orleans - 76%

Chicago - 70%

Miami - 73%

Atlanta - 70%

Los Angeles - 53%

Sioux City - 71%

Jackson - 75%

Minneapolis - 70%

The average July & August temperature for Minneapolis is 83 & 81 degrees. Anytime, the humidity reaches 65, most people feel uncomfortable. When it reaches 70 and above, that's when it becomes nasty.

Also, monsoon I know you are yankin my chain and I'm cool with that.

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If they combined Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh's tv markets, then it would one of the largest in the country. Thats the logic Don Beaver used when want to build a major league ballpark between Greensboro and Winston-Salem. But the Twins ended up using the Triad as a pawn to get a new ballpark built in Minnisota. Charlotte is likely to get a MLB expansion team more than any city in the southeast at this point. With Greensboro and Winston-Salem building new downtown minor league ballparks, the Triad has no plans trying to land a Major league team. Raleigh/Durham is also not the trying to get an expansion team. They like their AAA Durham Bulls just fine.

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If you look at the largest metros in the United States without major league sport teams, there are only a handful and the Norfolk/Hampton Roads area and the Triad are in the top 5. Those areas may never see a major league team unless the Triad gets Major League Soccer. But the problem with that is soccer is not as popular as baseball, football and basketball.

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I would much rather see a new baseball stadium being built in or near uptown Charlotte than a basketball arena. I know I shouldn't be stating my opinion because I can't stand the NBA and I don't reside in Charlotte. However, the view of uptown from within the stadium would be great. Also, if Charlotte does get a MLB team, I hope it's after the league gets its sh*t straight. It would be sad to see another small market team join the ranks consisting of the Twins, A's, Rockies, Royals, etc. who feed the Yankees and the remaining large market teams.

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If I had to choose between a downtown arena or a downtown major league ballpark, I'd have to go with the ballpark. You can sense the downtown environment when you're in an open-air stadium. But eventually Charlotte will have both an arena and ballpark downtown. two is better than one.

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I appreciate your thoughtful insight and in fact am happy to tell you that a baseball stadium is being planned for downtown to compliment Ericsson Stadium and the new Bobcat's Arena.

I wish I understood better, though, how small market teams like the Twins, Braves, A's, etc., necessarily feed the larger markets. If you're saying that they don't stand a snows chance of being in the World Series, look at the Marlins or Braves for hope.

I will.

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I can see the Charlotte Knights building in DT, but that's about it.

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I wish I understood better, though, how small market teams like the Twins, Braves, A's, etc., necessarily feed the larger markets. If you're saying that they don't stand a snows chance of being in the World Series, look at the Marlins or Braves for hope.

Braves, A's, and even Marlin's seem hardly small market teams. All of those teams sit in major metro areas of at least 4.5 million people, with significant regional draws (even though A's compete w/ Giants, the metro area is large enough, not to mention the surrounding areas offer at least another couple of million viewers and fans).

Twins, Brewers, and even Expos on the other hand, are certainly small market teams.

I'm sure before too long, Charlotte (or another NC metro) could support a MLB team, but it does take a significant following to fill 50,000 seats 81 times a year. I imagine it will be some time before teams start populating in the south like football or even basketball.

I think the big thing with small market teams, is that they struggle with paying large salaries and still make a profit. As you can tell, in a lot of sports, big salaries don't guarantee championships, but it can make it more challenging to field winning teams for extended periods of time and still maintain a realistic salary level.

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I know that a baseball stadium is being planned for uptown. However, it's for the the Knights; not for a major league team. Also, I don't have to look at Atlanta and Florida as examples of small market teams making it to the World Series. The Twins have won two world series and have won their division the last two years. And in regards to the smaller markets feeding the larger markets market teams; they do. How many small market franchises can keep three or even four star players for long contracts? Not too many because of the fact that they can't offer the salary like the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, or the Red Sox can.

Finally, Florida and Atlanta aren't exactly small market teams. When comparing these two teams to teams such as the Twins and the K.C. Royals, notice the metro areas included in each team's market.

Atlanta's market includes:

Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, & Greenville/Asheville.

Florida's includes:

Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, & West Palm Beach.

The Twins market includes:

Minneapolis/St. Paul

Kansas City includes:

Kansas City

The A's are considered a small market team where as San Francisco is considered a medium sized market. The remainder of small market teams include:

Twins

Cincinatti Reds

Arizona Diamondbacks

Oakland As

Colorado Rockies

St. Louis Cardinals

Pittsburgh Pirates

San Diego Padres

Milwaukee Brewers

Kansas City Royals

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