Condos on Westin parking deck

[rockhilljames]

I have a feeling that the market has changed enough for us to see a different product. We'll see.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Im thinking it will be a bit taller. That cube rendering is outdated.

[Justadude]

What a shame to obstruct that side of Westin. It'll really reduce the visual impact of the hotel.

[queensguy06]

I agree with what some of you have been saying. This project has been in the works for a while, and while it was on hold it never really was dead. It was originally planned for 15 stories and to be completed by the end of 2006. Someone (it might have been A2 or someone else, don't hold me to it) also mentioned on another thread about how exicted they were for this project recently, this says to me we might end up seeing something in the 20 to 30 story range. Again, this is all speculation, but for some reason I have this gut feeling like this project might turn into something not a single one of use (save for one or two) might have forseen. Think about it, the NHOF will be at its doorstep along with the Charlotte Convention Center. What better place to put a high rise?

[monsoon]

I agree with what some of you have been saying. This project has been in the works for a while,...

[NVQ]

As there is now talk that Portman may revive this as a speculative office tower, I thought I'd bump this thread.

[moving uptown]

I hear it will be a mixed use project. Maybe 150 condos, retail, commercial and some office. While in NYC, I heard one of the Big Investment Banks saying they were backing the deal.

[A2]

^^^ I had also heard that this would be a more prolific project than what was originally intended. My only question is will the deck be able to support that much development? I am no structural engineer, but my guess would be that they at least planned on adding "the Cube", but did they prepare for something more substantial in terms of weight and mass?

If not, is upfitting the deck with structural steel to support such a structure even possible??

(Any structural engineers out there care to take a swing at this question???)^

A2

[Bled_man]

^^^ I had also heard that this would be a more prolific project than what was originally intended. My only question is will the deck be able to support that much development? I am no structural engineer, but my guess would be that they at least planned on adding "the Cube", but did they prepare for something more substantial in terms of weight and mass?

If not, is upfitting the deck with structural steel to support such a structure even possible??

(Any structural engineers out there care to take a swing at this question???)^

A2

[atlrvr]

I just really hope that whatever happens here, addresses the ugly section along College.....please punch some retail spots into the deck. Also, for condos to make sense, you really need to get taller than the hotel....southend views would be ok, but I would think the premium needed to make this kind of building feasible would require plenty of units with skyline views.

[dubone]

The units facing College would be able to see the new Wachovia complex, the stadium, and Appalachian foothills. Facing Brevard, you'd see the Nascar tower and any other 2nd Ward development, the South Park skyline, the South End skylinette, and all the goings on in Midtown and Elizabeth. I agree it wouldn't command a premium, but it isn't particularly bad.

I do wonder, though, whether they'll opt to have an condos that face directly at the hotel.

[charlotte49ersuptown]

The CBJ this morning had an article about condos on top of the Westin Parking Garage. The paper says that Portman will add several more levels of parking and then 90 condo units which will average about $1 million. The units will have access to the Westin's amenities. They are still contemplating an office component. It fails to give a timetable for construction. I guess we still have to take a wait and see approach.

[Charlotte_native]

The CBJ this morning had an article about condos on top of the Westin Parking Garage. The paper says that Portman will add several more levels of parking and then 90 condo units which will average about $1 million. The units will have access to the Westin's amenities. They are still contemplating an office component. It fails to give a timetable for construction. I guess we still have to take a wait and see approach.

[moving uptown]

a million avg is a bit pricey. they wont have a view correct? I would much rather buy a unit in the vue or 210 trade or any other penthouse level of a tower. i doubt those will sell well but i have been wrong before

[Justadude]

On the other hand, they'll have access to killer amenities as part of the Westin. Depending on the size and "extras" on the units, they might be worth a cool mil.

[uptownliving]

I think that if done right these units will sell. History has shown that is the case just a block down the street at the Ratcliffe which has some of the most expensive condos currently downtown and none of them has a skyline view.

If they do decide to go taller than the Westin Hotel the view from that angle and height is quite stunning. Especially at sunset.

[rockhilljames]

Doesn't sound like this will be too tall, but it sounds like they'll be really nice.

Hope we get some retail with this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[atlrvr]

I like the fact that the developer would be paying off the city's portion of the parking deck debt, which will save the city $2M/year in bond payments.

[A2]

Would it be wrong to assume that the developer is thinking taller than originally planned to make an even larger profit? I am thinking that this would be awesome if it were done one and a half times taller than the Hotel with the same style architecture. It would be a complementary tower to an area of town that is soon to be quite desireable.

The upper units would have amazing views of Uptown, not to mention incredible views of Southpark and Southend.

A2

[A2]

Here is a pic from off the Westin site that shows the type views that one could expect if units were built above the roofline of the exisiting Hotel. (and one must remember that those views would never be blocked since the bulk of the rooms would be above the already existing Convention Center)

I would be willing to bet any sizable unit above 24 floors or so could command quite a price. It might be silly not to build taller with this type of view possible.

This is direct from Westin Charlotte's home site

Westin Charlotte Homepage

A2

[atlrvr]

The odd thing is there was to be a ton of parking spaces available for the office building WITHOUT expanding the deck...something along the lines of 700 or so I think.....if there are only 90 condos, and each condo gets 2 spaces, that would indicate there is an excess of over 500 spaces. The article says they are expanding the deck, which means even more spaces. I would have to assume there will be an office component.

[A2]

The odd thing is there was to be a ton of parking spaces available for the office building WITHOUT expanding the deck...something along the lines of 700 or so I think.....if there are only 90 condos, and each condo gets 2 spaces, that would indicate there is an excess of over 500 spaces. The article says they are expanding the deck, which means even more spaces. I would have to assume there will be an office component.

[atlrvr]

It's tough to speculte...I was searching for a property brochure, but they seem to have been removed from all the local brokerage sites. I wanted to confirm I had my parking space count right, but I believe they were previously offering 3 spaces/1,000 sq. ft. on a ~240,000 building.

It would also seem that this project would have to be much higher for a couple reason. 1. they are expanding the deck which adds height itself, and also capacity for more development. 2. I think it would be tough to sell 90 condos average $1M without a majority having unobstructed skyline views. 3. NVQ seemed to have some knowledge, plus he mentioned a large investment bank. I can't imagine that a NYC IB would be financing some condos in Charlotte, unless the local lenders are really that jittery....even then, condo developers typically just head west to California where there is a never ending flow of capital for any crappy project. 4. Portman is an office and hotel guy, I don't think he's done a straight condo deal

As far as speculating on actual height, I don't even want to guess, but going taller than the hotel seems logical, if the existing deck can support it or be cost effectively upgraded to support it.

[A2]

^^^As always atlrvr, you have some insightful posts. Thanks again for the info. I concur with all of your points. I guess now it is just a wait and see game. I knew this deal was going to be announced soon from some info I picked up on my tour at the Park. However, no specifics were thrown around, just simply that the development was moving forward and that a public comment was soon to be made to that effect.

Hope all is well in Beantown.

A2

[dubone]

I think an added reason these would sell is they'd likely include hotel amenities.

I like the idea of a building on an existing deck, and wish that could take place on many other sites downtown. But, if they take over the debt, does that remove the parking deck from being public? Will it be a parking deck for the condo residents, or will it still be for the general public, only with the revenues going to Portman rather than the city?