Next large Georgia city

[Newnan]

I've put in a bid for Atlanta to host a World Expo but I also think that Savannah would be an amazing place for such a thing. The fair grounds could be converted into a new downtown district after the event. Savannah will be a city of millions one day and now is the time to stear that growth into a district.

Hutchinson Island is screaming for something 'big' to happen there. I really can't think of a city that has more potential than Savannah.

Where else in Savannah could support a downtown highrise district?

Who do you think Savannah will be a city of millions? Just wondering

[UTCdude23]

I think that the next large Georgia city will actually be in Northwest GA. Dalton and Rome are both recent MSA additions to GA, and are classified as major cities in GA. Rome is currently redeveloping their downtown business district and has plans to develop the land next to the newly constructed braves stadium. Additionally, the 411 corridor is slowly being developed within the city limits. Any thoughts? I have heard that outside of Metro Atlanta, Northwest GA is growing at the fastest rate. However, that does not mean by the largest numbers, but the largest percentage growth.

[Spartan]

I think Rome could do it. I heard that they either are or miught be getting an interstate spur. That would help them out a lot.

Savannah could potentially be a city of a million. I don't see it becoming more than that.

[EbonyGardens]

With Atlanta's help, I'd say Macon.

[dougtha1]

With Atlanta's help, I'd say Macon.

I can see Macon's growth beeing fueled by exurban Atlantans filling up its suburban counties. (Jones, Monroe) Add that to Houston's growth, who knows. Augusta has a a good chance on its own though. I'll root for Macon though.

[Martinman]

I can see Macon's growth beeing fueled by exurban Atlantans filling up its suburban counties. (Jones, Monroe) Add that to Houston's growth, who knows. Augusta has a a good chance on its own though. I'll root for Macon though.

I agree that there seems to be a bit of a growing relationship between exurban metro atlanta counties and metro Macon. It could be the beginning of Macon (finally) seeing significant growth as a result of its proximity to metro Atlanta.

But I also think that the coastal cities with their ports and tourism could also see accelerated growth in the near future and Augusta will continue its strong steady growth.

[Metroinspect.]

Well i think Macon should consolidate with Bibb County

[ATLman1]

Columbus is expected to lead the state with job growth and population growth. The study was done by the Terry College of Business at UGA. So I would expect Columbus lead the way for GA's 2nd tier cities.

[Lady Celeste]

Columbus is expected to lead the state with job growth and population growth. The study was done by the Terry College of Business at UGA. So I would expect Columbus lead the way for GA's 2nd tier cities.

Will Columbus lead the state in job and population growth based on sheer numbers or precentage wise?

[ATLman1]

Will Columbus lead the state in job and population growth based on sheer numbers or precentage wise?

It is percentage wise. Here is the article from the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer Columbus growth

[SAV]

Ummmm....... Savannah isn't ever going to grow. I mean we just got a target and that was hard as hell. I [color=#FF0000]LOVE my hometown but that place is slow as ever. The locals like how its a little southern city. It is like the ultimate southern city when it comes to culture. I mean the whole downtown is a historic district. Its also one of the most beautiful cities in the U.S. At the end of a very long day I don't think I would change downtown because it is just too beautiful.

However, Id love to see Hutchison Ilsand become the New Age downtown, with buildings higher than sears tower. That would be cool having 2 downtowns, new and old. Then having a downtown that could spill over into S.Carolina, that would be great. But, I think the soil is to soft over there or something, or maybe thats just a rumor or maybe I heard it wrong, I dunno.

100 years ago, Savannah could have been huge like Atlanta, probably even bigger because it is a port city oh, and I forgot all about Tybee. But thats how we like things down there , nice and slow............................................................................

.......................................................................and thats why Im in ATLANTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[krazeeboi]

Then having a downtown that could spill over into S.Carolina, that would be great. But, I think the soil is to soft over there or something, or maybe thats just a rumor or maybe I heard it wrong, I dunno.

LOL, not sure what you're talking about there. Seems like whatever soil conditions exist in the SC Lowcountry can't be radically different than that which exists in the GA Lowcountry. At any rate, I think that soon enough, we may see a Savannah-Beaufort-Hilton Head metropolitan area come into being. I hope the sprawl doesn't connect with Charleston so as to make a Lowcountry mini-megalopolis.

[teshadoh]

^ Maybe they are reffering to Savannah being located on firmer ground than what is across the river (marsh land). But I don't think we would want that to happen anyways. But Hardeeville is becoming an exurb of Savannah & the Hilton Head area is loosely considered part of the Savannah 'area'.

[DaGABoyStinger]

LOL, not sure what you're talking about there. Seems like whatever soil conditions exist in the SC Lowcountry can't be radically different than that which exists in the GA Lowcountry. At any rate, I think that soon enough, we may see a Savannah-Beaufort-Hilton Head metropolitan area come into being. I hope the sprawl doesn't connect with Charleston so as to make a Lowcountry mini-megalopolis.

Well, a downtown for Savannah's SC side would be cool to see. North Augusta, SC. is in the process of developing their own such "downtown" across the river front from downtown Augusta, and I remember when it used to be literally NOTHING but swamps and trees, but they still found a way.

I originally would of thought though that since there is a Savannah-Hilton Head Int'l Airport that there was some sort of association with Hilton Head and Savannah, but apparently the US census disagrees. With all metros combined, possibly in a CSA, then the area could boast over 500,000 people easy.

As for savannah being "slow", Augusta may have more numbers of people, but SOME may argue that we are just as slow if not slower than Savannah or at least not as progressive in some matters. Yeah, there is evidence to prove otherwise, but we actually JUST got our 1st starbucks only last year, in fact it hasn't been there a year yet. And our government is really in chaos right now (40+ lawsuits), as with a few other cities, but I never heard of Savannah having these sort of problems with their gov't. And not to mention, downtowns: Savannah Beautiful, Augusta still needs alot of work, but has potential. But anyways, obviously no city is perfect, especially in GA.

[Spartan]

I dont care what anyone says- Starbucks is not a measure of progress.

[krazeeboi]

^I would say that keeping Starbucks OUT in preference to local coffeeshops is a sign a progress.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

I'm genuinely curious...why is it that Georgia's other 100K+ cities lose population EVEN AFTER they merge with the county's surrounding them? Is it as Metro hints, that Atlanta is sucking the life out of the rest of the state?

[Topher1]

I'm genuinely curious...why is it that Georgia's other 100K+ cities lose population EVEN AFTER they merge with the county's surrounding them? Is it as Metro hints, that Atlanta is sucking the life out of the rest of the state?

That pretty much sums it up (on the simplest level) ... Atlanta really receives the bulk of the growth and investment in GA. That's not to say that the other regions are completely faltering, but their growth is pretty substandard (and downright languid considering the growth in the rest of the sunbelt).

Augusta, Columbus, and Macon all suffer from the same middle-class and white flight that is occurring in most cities. It's easily noted that the suburbs in all three cities are growing healthily to explosively (Warner Robbins, Columbia County, Aiken County, etc.)... This is easily attributed to crime, schools, homogenaity, and even politics.

Keep in mind that since Georgia counties are very small, there isn't much "suburbanizable" land to keep the county population figures in balance. Just because Augusta, Columbus, and Athens are consolidated, that doesn't mean that suddenly they have Jacksonville-sized chunks of land to develop. In addition, the city limits of Augusta and Columbus include massive amounts of government-owned land in the form of military bases.

Furthermore, the inner-cities in these cities (Savannah intentionally excluded) don't have nearly as much drive for redevelopment, because what's already there isn't necessarily a "gem." There's not a need to move closer to the city centers, because the regions haven't grown to the point where transportation to the employment centers is difficult. Hell, there's still tons of undeveloped riverfront land DIRECTLY across from downtown Augusta. No need to build a home 30 minutes away in south Augusta, when you can live right across the river in SC, send your kids to a much better school, and be shielded from the stigma of Augusta by a body of water...

In Augusta's case (since I'm most familiar with it), almost all of the room for growth is in south Augusta, 20-30 minutes from downtown. However, it is just as convienent (and wayyy more "family-friendly") to build your home in Columbia County (same distance from downtown). Now that Col. Co. is starting to feel the strains of growth, I think Aiken Co. will become the trendy place to live (especially since N. Augusta is sooo convienent to downtown Augusta)... I don't think that south Augusta will really start to pick up until well after N. Augusta starts buckling with growth... That's the point that Augusta-Richmond Co. will really start gaining population again... Unfortunately, that's years away, and barring some major economic development, I see Richmond Co. stabilizing soon, but not seeing significant growth for another 10 years.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

That pretty much sums it up (on the simplest level) ... Atlanta really receives the bulk of the growth and investment in GA. That's not to say that the other regions are completely faltering, but their growth is pretty substandard (and downright languid considering the growth in the rest of the sunbelt).

Augusta, Columbus, and Macon all suffer from the same middle-class and white flight that is occurring in most cities. It's easily noted that the suburbs in all three cities are growing healthily to explosively (Warner Robbins, Columbia County, Aiken County, etc.)... This is easily attributed to crime, schools, homogenaity, and even politics.

Keep in mind that since Georgia counties are very small, there isn't much "suburbanizable" land to keep the county population figures in balance. Just because Augusta, Columbus, and Athens are consolidated, that doesn't mean that suddenly they have Jacksonville-sized chunks of land to develop. In addition, the city limits of Augusta and Columbus include massive amounts of government-owned land in the form of military bases.

Furthermore, the inner-cities in these cities (Savannah intentionally excluded) don't have nearly as much drive for redevelopment, because what's already there isn't necessarily a "gem." There's not a need to move closer to the city centers, because the regions haven't grown to the point where transportation to the employment centers is difficult. Hell, there's still tons of undeveloped riverfront land DIRECTLY across from downtown Augusta. No need to build a home 30 minutes away in south Augusta, when you can live right across the river in SC, send your kids to a much better school, and be shielded from the stigma of Augusta by a body of water...

In Augusta's case (since I'm most familiar with it), almost all of the room for growth is in south Augusta, 20-30 minutes from downtown. However, it is just as convienent (and wayyy more "family-friendly") to build your home in Columbia County (same distance from downtown). Now that Col. Co. is starting to feel the strains of growth, I think Aiken Co. will become the trendy place to live (especially since N. Augusta is sooo convienent to downtown Augusta)... I don't think that south Augusta will really start to pick up until well after N. Augusta starts buckling with growth... That's the point that Augusta-Richmond Co. will really start gaining population again... Unfortunately, that's years away, and barring some major economic development, I see Richmond Co. stabilizing soon, but not seeing significant growth for another 10 years.

Thanks for the great analysis, Topher. I learned something today.

All Sunbelt states have pockets that aren't benefiting from the overall growth but in Georgia, in particular, growth is just so obviously lopsided and focused on one single center to the detriment of the rest of the state. I know that Savannah city is losing population but I don't think that Savannah's metro is losing population?

[Topher1]

None of the metros are losing population... I only separated Savannah from the other tier 2 cities in my analysis because it has something the others don't have: a huge swath of desirable, mixed-use area downtown that will ALWAYS be desirable, regardless of other economic factors in the city. That alone makes the city more recession-proof in my mind.

[gah]

None of the metros are losing population... I only separated Savannah from the other tier 2 cities in my analysis because it has something the others don't have: a huge swath of desirable, mixed-use area downtown that will ALWAYS be desirable, regardless of other economic factors in the city. That alone makes the city more recession-proof in my mind.

I dont know about Augusta or MAcon- but in Columbus there IS a huge swath of land DT with the POTENTIAL of being very desirable. Between the river and 4th Ave (misnamed as an X-pressway) north of the TSYS campus along the river a mile or so to Bibb Mill site is a vast track which currently contains fairly delapidated homes/businesses. It is extemely underutilized and has great potential for development.

As a matter of fact, a new apartment complex opened in that area at renovated Johnston Mills with access to Riverwalk. And 2d Ave (the main road thru the area) now connects DT directly to N. Bypass (which really is an X-pressway) and to Interstate. In the Bibb City area homes are being renovated and the Mill itself is slated for future residential/commercial development.

Also immediately adjacent to DT on the east, between 6 and 10th Aves, is the CofGa Railyard which I believe is some 80 acres. A feasibility study is now on-going to determine whether it should be moved and the land released for development.

So, both north and east of DT are some tantalizing large tracts. And to west, the whole riverfront of Phenix City is scheduled for redevelopment. Admittedly, tho, Savannah has some wonderful Colonial architecture that no other city can match (with possible exception of Augusta). Columbus is 100 years younger and tends to be more Victorian, Greek Revival in its remaining historical homes/businesses.

[Topher1]

I dont know about Augusta or MAcon- but in Columbus there IS a huge swath of land DT with the POTENTIAL of being very desirable.

I understand what you're getting at, but I'm really not necessarily talking REdevelopment (directly at least). Any of the cities could conceivably establish a new area that could draw people in, but Savannah has the distinction of being the only city in the bunch that already has lots of beautiful and urban places that people actually WANT to preserve. The other tier 2's just don't have as much drive to invest in downtown, since there isn't as much that the residents actually care about preserving/bettering..

What I'm really getting at is that I don't think that Augusta/Columbus/Macon really have enough demand/motivation to stem the sprawl, and make downtown and the "historic" (re: old and delapidated) areas the place not only to work/play, but also to live; at least not when there's plenty of other new/fancy places to reside that really aren't all that inconvenient to the downtown areas... I don't think our cities will see the downtown redevelopments (at least not on the scale we desire) until the convenience is removed from our suburban areas through uncontrolled growth...

[gah]

I understand what you're getting at, but I'm really not necessarily talking REdevelopment (directly at least). Any of the cities could conceivably establish a new area that could draw people in, but Savannah has the distinction of being the only city in the bunch that already has lots of beautiful and urban places that people actually WANT to preserve. The other tier 2's just don't have as much drive to invest in downtown, since there isn't as much that the residents actually care about preserving/bettering..

What I'm really getting at is that I don't think that Augusta/Columbus/Macon really have enough demand/motivation to stem the sprawl, and make downtown and the "historic" (re: old and delapidated) areas the place not only to work/play, but also to live; at least not when there's plenty of other new/fancy places to reside that really aren't all that inconvenient to the downtown areas... I don't think our cities will see the downtown redevelopments (at least not on the scale we desire) until the convenience is removed from our suburban areas through uncontrolled growth...

I agree -- tho all three have in common a river which could be a draw for new influx of residents. Access

to a river is something that no suburb can match. If the three cities concentrate on their river locations (in Columbus, a huge amount of public and private funds has gone into the riverfront/DT area), the amenities (theater, recreation, symphony, etc) will eventually draw residents, as will locating educational facilities DT (ie, SCAD in Savannah, CSU in Columbus). Houses in the Historic District near river in DT Columbus which were almost worthless a while back are now selling in the 200-400k range. However, I certainly agree that, insofar as present quality/desirability of residential life is concerned, DT Savannah is way ahead of other 3 and, probably even ahead of Atlanta.

[gah]

None of the metros are losing population... I only separated Savannah from the other tier 2 cities in my analysis because it has something the others don't have: a huge swath of desirable, mixed-use area downtown that will ALWAYS be desirable, regardless of other economic factors in the city. That alone makes the city more recession-proof in my mind.

Topher1 -- take a look at the two linked articles mentioned in ATLman's latest in NEW Condo under Columbus

Forum. Great discussion of new "trend" toward in-town living there.

[PJA]

Augusta is halfway there when it comes to having a population of 1 million. As of 2004 the Augusta metro area had a population of 507,176. I'm not sure about the other cities.