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Next large Georgia city


ATLman1

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What is Augusta's population without the SC side? I can't imagine that it is bigger than Columbus's metro area.

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Richmond County + Columbia County + Burke County + McDuffie County =

198,159 + 97,505 + 22,949 + 21,445 = 340,058

Columbus MSA (2003) = 287,082

Savannah MSA (2003) = 304,325

Macon MSA (2003) - 226,022

Augusta MSA (2003, including SC) = 511,489

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Richmond County + Columbia County + Burke County + McDuffie County =

198,159 + 97,505 + 22,949 + 21,445 = 340,058

Columbus MSA (2003) = 287,082

Savannah MSA (2003) = 304,325

Macon MSA (2003) - 226,022

Augusta MSA (2003, including SC) = 511,489

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Is that Columbus with out the Alabama side? If you are going to arbitrarilty remove parts of a metro area for one city, you should do it for every city :) Its interesting that Augusta is sitll ahead.

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Yeah that's Columbus' entire metro, AL included. I was just demonstrating that the pop. stats aren't even that close between #2 and #3. However, if the 2000 MSA definitions were still used (Macon still included Warner Robbins with those defs), Macon would be quite a bit closer, at 343,456.

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I get much different figures considering there are a lot more counties in Columbus's metro area. All of these counties are within 40 miles.

GA: Columbus metro 287,184 but Troup (60,218) and Upson (27,978) should be added since they are within 30 miles. Thats makes that GA side 375,380.

AL: Columbus metro is 233,114.

That makes Columbus's entire metro 608,494. Also, with the Ft. Benning population boom this year there should be another 18,000+ just added to Columbus city.

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I'm not making my facts up you know... These are official, non-discriminatory Census definitions. The criteria are applied to each city exactly the same. If the Census says that Columbus' official 2003 MSA population estimate is 287,082, then that is the gospel as far as I and most others on this board are concerned. Just because you think certain areas "should" be included, doesn't make it so.

Official Census 2003 MSA definitions:

http://www.census.gov/population/estimates...y/0312mfips.txt

17980 Columbus, GA-AL Metropolitan Statistical Area

17980 01113 Russell County, AL

17980 13053 Chattahoochee County, GA

17980 13145 Harris County, GA

17980 13197 Marion County, GA

17980 13215 Muscogee County, GA

48,986 + 19,333 + 25,891 + 7,170 + 185,702 = 287,082

I'm not trying to be a dick or steer the conversation away from the topic, just presenting the undeniable facts. If you don't consider the census bureau to be the authority, then that's fine, but it works fine for every other metro in the country.

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I think within a 30 mile radius is Columbus's metro. How can you not count Lee Co. in Alabama. It touches Columbus! Plus, many people that live in Troup and Upson work in Columbus and go shopping. You are only counting a handful of counties. Most of the counties around Columbus are small in land area. If you don't want to consider it the metro area, then call it the economic trade area.

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Its the Census Bureau's definitions, not mine. They use the same criteria for all metros. I'm sure everyone can find some reason to include some other areas in their metros, but the Census bureau's definitions are fair and impartial. They incorporate % of commuters from county to county, economic ties, and certainly other factors that I can't remember. Take it up with them if you have a problem.

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I never said I had a problem with their definition. All I gave was the total population for Columbus's trade area. That is a fact and can be found at http://www.columbusgachamber.com/ED/Overvi...ographicsta.cfm The only reasoning that I can think of of Lee Co. not being apart of Columbus's metro is because Auburn/Opelika has their own metro. The whole tri-city area is one. If you ask anyone from the Columbus/Auburn/Opelika area that is what they will tell you.

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I'm not trying to be a dick or steer the conversation away from the topic, just presenting the undeniable facts.  If you don't consider the census bureau to be the authority, then that's fine, but it works fine for every other metro in the country.

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Nor are you. I was going to mention this, but everyone else beat me to it :)

I never said I had a problem with their definition. All I gave was the total population for Columbus's trade area. That is a fact and can be found at http://www.columbusgachamber.com/ED/Overvi...ographicsta.cfm The only reasoning that I can think of of Lee Co. not being apart of Columbus's metro is because Auburn/Opelika has their own metro. The whole tri-city area is one. If you ask anyone from the Columbus/Auburn/Opelika area that is what they will tell you.

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If those are the numbers you want to use, thats fine, but you should also use those numbers for Augusta, Macon, Savannah, etc. Everything needs to be on the same playing field.

I believe - and this is hardly the only factor - that 25% of a county must commute to the core/center county to be included in a metro area.

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Yes. Its 15% to be in the CSA I believe. I suppose this is ATL's point- Just becuase a certain precentage does come to the core area doesn't make it less a part of the larger community. Still, if you are going to use one group's set of numbers for one city, you need to use the group's set for another city.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I hate all this bickering over population size, etc. etc. But I spent alot of my years in Augusta and know for a fact it is, looks, smells, tastes, and everything else...bigger than Columbus. There is about 500,000 in the metro area, and most of that population is within a 15 mile ring around Augusta. North Augusta, Aiken, Evans, Martinez and Grovetown are all suburban areas that seem to be growing like gangbusters. Downtown Augusta is smack full of clubs, bars, cafes...many of them with long lines out the door! I didnt care too much for Augusta when I lived there 5 years ago because I was too involved with wanting to live in Atlanta or Miami, but now (living in Upstate South Carolina) it is so different.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The top industries in Augusta are as follows:

1. Savannah River Site.  Currently 15,000 extremely high-paid employees.  The potential for growth here comes from renewed talk of nuclear energy, as well as the hydrogen corridor that Columbia is attempting to establish.  Other current/future missions include nuclear waste disposal/processing, including a proposed MOX plant (waste conversion), that will guarantee at least 1000 new, high-paying jobs for at least 20 years.

As another aside, the SRS/UGA community is currently up in arms because the proposed federal budget, as it currently stands, does not include set-aside funding for the Savannah River Ecology Lab. According to this article in the Aiken Standard, if unchanged, this budget would mean the loss of many, if not most, of the 180 jobs at SREL.

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As another aside, the SRS/UGA community is currently up in arms because the proposed federal budget, as it currently stands, does not include set-aside funding for the Savannah River Ecology Lab.  According to this article in the Aiken Standard, if unchanged, this budget would mean the loss of many, if not most, of the 180 jobs at SREL.

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Wow... I can't believe they would close SREL... That was such a good resource for the community and for the local schools. Several times in high school we were given the opportunity to do research/projects with the scientists there, and it would be a shame for the community to lose that...

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Columbus metro includes Russell Co. Alabama, but the Columbus-Auburn combined metropolitan statistical area also includes Lee Co. Alabama. That puts the total pop at 430k. Augusta-Aiken meanwhile is a single MSA according to the census bureau; the total there is 499k. But it doesn't much matter; taken together, Georgia's second tier cities are pretty much all in the same boat. Augusta, Columbus, Savannah, and Athens all have between 100 and 200k; only Savannah isn't merged with its county so you could say Savannah is the biggest of the three (if it merged, Savannah-Chatham would have 230k). Macon has 99k; if it merged, Macon-Bibb would have 155k. Albany has 76k; Albany-Dougherty would have 100k.

I don't think we're going to see any of these cities suddenly explode in the next few years. Macon and Savannah have bad reputations. Columbus is isolated (at least for now); Albany is and will remain so. Athens is home to UGA, and nobody thinks of it as anything else. The growth is going to Atlanta, and if you want to be in a city of any size, Atlanta's where you go.

But the third-tier cities might have some potential. Rome, Dalton, Brunswick, Warner-Robins, Hinesville, Gainesville, and Valdosta all became metro area cities in 2003; W-R, Hinesville, and Gainesville are attached to Macon, Savannah, and Atlanta to make combined metro areas, so we'll count them out. Of the remaining ones, Valdosta is the biggest, Dalton is the fastest growing. Brunswick city has been shrinking for a number of years and frankly isn't going to impress any travelling businessmen. Barring some unforseen sea change in the city and county governments, Brunswick is going to stay small and resort-oriented.

I haven't ever been to Rome, but it's in pretty country and we can never discount the importance of that. Dalton has never impressed me as anything more than a pit stop on the highway between Atlanta and Chattanooga; maybe somebody else can give a better impression. But Valdosta, well, I lived there for a few years and the city and county both want to be thought of as THE up-and-coming player in Georgia. The place is growing like a weed, which has meant a lot of crappy sprawl and is completely unsustainable, but if I had to pick the next hot spot in the state, it would be Valdosta. For better or for worse. The city needs to broaden its economic base before anything really exciting can happen, though; 25% of the county GDP is attributable to Moody AFB, which may well be on the chopping block.

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Albany has a nice albiet little DT area. Its not much yet, but they seem to be proud of it. That city would have more potential if it were connected to an interstate. 82 appears to me to be a defacto interstate. I have heard that the city council or mayor is corrupt and that many people are moving to Lee County instead. I know that if it weren;t fr that signe you wouldn't know where the county line is.

Valdosta is nice, and I can see alot of potential there. From what I can vaguely recall the downtown area is not central at all, but it is still nice. The university could be a major asset to that area.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Richmond County + Columbia County + Burke County + McDuffie County =

198,159 + 97,505 + 22,949 + 21,445 = 340,058

Columbus MSA (2003) = 287,082

Savannah MSA (2003) = 304,325

Macon MSA (2003) - 226,022

Augusta MSA (2003, including SC) = 511,489

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WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

take a look at this site froom the 2000 census the ordrer is atlanta, augusta, macon, columbus , then savannah.

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WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

take a look at this site  froom the 2000 census the ordrer is atlanta, augusta, macon, columbus , then savannah.

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Actually, in fact, my numbers are RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!!!

The census bureau periodically examines commuting/population patterns and updates their definitions of the MSA's. My numbers are derived using the most current definitions (2003). Your numbers reflect the definitions in 2000, more than 5 years ago. The 2003 definitions are the definitive metro definitions now. The biggest difference between the two is that Warner Robins became it's own MSA, significantly altering the size of the Macon MSA.

http://www.census.gov/population/estimates...y/0312mfips.txt

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The most likely cities for growth are Augusta and Savannah. Augusta has its medical community and SRE while Savannah has tourism and its port. Each of the areas have seen growth recently but I think each area needs to attract some other type of business or industry to really take their growth up to another level.

I've read that Columbus has done somethings, Fort Benning is expanding but its location is certainly a negative.

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Spartan - I will try to dig up some of these articles and determine what's still relevant.  Everything project I posted has been discussed recently, except unfortunately the pedestrian bridge, which received a lot of attention about 3 years ago.

mjcatl2 - It's been discussed and confirmed in this thread and others that Augusta is (hands down) the 2nd largest metro in the state.  In fact, even if the SC portion was removed, Augusta would still be the 2nd largest.  The order goes: Atlanta, Augusta, Savannah, Columbus, Macon (using 2003 MSA definitions).  Using the 2000 definitions, Macon hops up a few spots to no. 3. 

FlaNatv - I completely agree with your assessment.  I think it will be one of GA's coastal cities that booms next, and I don't know what's holding Savannah back.  I wonder if it has something to do with the amount of developable land near downtown (the SC side is basically a giant, most undeveloped swamp), or ifs its the unfair perception that Savannah is a high crime city...

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If you are including any metro that is in Georgia in full or part you are forgetting Chattanooga. Three of its counties are in GA. That is also the fastest growing part of the Chattanooga MSA. If included it would be Georgias 3rd largest MSA at 482667.

As far as potential goes I'd have to go with either Augusta or Savannah, as Georgia's next boom city.

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It really surprises me that the Chattanooga MSA is smaller than Augusta's..  I really would have thought that Chattanooga would be larger... It seems like a much larger city with many more amenities and urban areas...

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It really surprised me too. As of some time in the late '90's Chattanooga was GA's 2nd largest MSA. I don't know where all those people are located in the Augusta area. I was stationed at Ft. Gordon for 2 years 2001-2002. While I was there a major anchor in the Augusta Mall closed, and it seem that the mall wasn't doing well as a whole. Chattanooga has 2 malls that do really well. The downtown area and river walk were nice, but there still wasn't as much to do IMO as in Chattanooga. I think the major difference is that Chattanooga draws a lot of people from Cleveland, TN and Dalton, GA. Cleveland is included in Chattanooga CSA but Dalton isn't. I think the CSA for Chattanooga is around 700k. I don't think the Augusta CSA is any different from their MSA.

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It really surprised me too.  As of some time in the late '90's Chattanooga was GA's 2nd largest MSA.  I don't know where all those people are located in the Augusta area.  I was stationed at Ft. Gordon for 2 years 2001-2002.  While I was there a major anchor in the Augusta Mall closed, and it seem that the mall wasn't doing well as a whole.  Chattanooga has 2 malls that do really well.  The downtown area and river walk were nice, but there still wasn't as much to do IMO as in Chattanooga.  I think the major difference is that Chattanooga draws a lot of people from Cleveland, TN and Dalton, GA.  Cleveland is included in Chattanooga CSA but Dalton isn't.  I think the CSA for Chattanooga is around 700k.  I don't think the Augusta CSA is any different from their MSA.

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I live in downtown Chattanooga and have found it to be quite a fun town to live in. I do think that with the rapid growth in NW GA and the expansion of ATL up the I-75 corridor, the growth of the Chattanooga MSA could increase fairly quickly... if it isn't gobbled by Atlanta first.

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the growth of the Chattanooga MSA could increase fairly quickly... if it isn't gobbled by Atlanta first.

It won't be gobbled up by Atlanta. Thats just too far away and Chattanooga is a substantial metro already. I mean its not like Gainesville, Ga where the metro population is a little over 100k and borders one of the core counties. Gainseville will most likely become apart of Atlanta's MSA soon.

They could one day become a CSA since the defined metros are already almost touching.

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It won't be gobbled up by Atlanta.  Thats just too far away and Chattanooga is a substantial metro already.  I mean its not like Gainesville, Ga where the metro population is a little over 100k and borders one of the core counties.  Gainseville will most likely become apart of Atlanta's MSA soon. 

They could one day become a CSA since the defined metros are already almost touching.

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True, I think I remember hearing that both Dalton and Rome, GA were now considered to be MSA's, if so, then probably 10 years down the road (give or take), there would be some sort of CSA, I'm estimating population'd be around 7 million...

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