Racism in the South

[WildWest]

i dunno, his last trip to memphis wasn't too good for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As the Cable Guy would say, and Dave Chappelle would probably agree, "I don't care who you are, thats funny"

No disrespect to the subject/discussion intended

[rusthebuss]

I've never known bigotry, racism, etc.

[RiversideGator]

I am afraid that what the racism accusation (in many cases) has now become is not an attempt to obtain equal treatment under the law but instead to get special treatment for a certain group. How about we just all try to work hard, do our best and move on instead of looking to the government for everything.

[rusthebuss]

I am afraid that what the racism accusation (in many cases) has now become is not an attempt to obtain equal treatment under the law but instead to get special treatment for a certain group.  How about we just all try to work hard, do our best and move on instead of looking to the government for everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree but what i have a problem is when something is not given to some group its automatic racism and i think it has done a 180 degree turn and its harder for whites now and i see in the work place all the racial comments against whites and teaming up against them as well. I don't think equal rights movement was meant for this and equal rights doesn't mean they have more rights than whites and i'm afraid thats what is happening today.

[krazeeboi]

What about the increase in black racism, all people talk about is what white people that are racist and when people say racist they mean white people. I grew up in a black neighborhood and all they said was cracker and honkey, jump the white kids just because they are white  and then whine about some white guy didn't treat him like gold so he is a racist. I'm tired of racism period and now blacks are becoming so racist it's unreal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I agree that blacks are certainly capable of exhibiting hateful and discriminatory behavior towards whites simply based on skin color, I still do not believe that this constitutes racism, as racism is systematic. Blacks, as a group, do not systematically benefit from racism, nor is there any systematic cultural or institutional support or sanction for the racial bigotry of blacks or people of color at large.

And while all racial epithets for any group of people are unacceptable, the terms "cracker" and "honky" simply don't compare to other choice words directed at people of color. Anyone familiar with the 80's sitcome "The Jeffersons" can easily see this. The lead character, George Jefferson, would often call one of his neighbords, a white man, a "honky," which elicited nothing but laughs from the audience. Why? The term really carries no power systematically, since Jefferson, a black man, didn't benefit from the system. As one author has said,

As a white person I always saw terms like honky or cracker as evidence of how much more potent white racism was than any variation on the theme practiced by the black or brown.

When a group of people has little or no power over you institutionally, they don

[monsoon]

.....Anyone familiar with the 80's sitcome "The Jeffersons" can easily see this. The lead character, George Jefferson, would often call one of his neighbords, a white man, a "honky," which elicited nothing but laughs from the audience. Why? The term really carries no power systematically, since Jefferson, a black man, didn't benefit from the system. ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honky isn't used that much anymore, but when it was coined it was meant to describe white men who preyed upon poor black women who had to sell their bodies. Pretty nasty if you ask me. The 70s were not as mind numbing politically correct as we are now as TV shows of the time actually required the audience to "think" a bit. You also forgot to mention Archie Bunker who was Jefferson's counter. (The jeffersons spun off from All in the Family)

And you can't judge by 70s sitcoms either as the standards have changed. The Dukes of Hazard had a big Confederate flag painted on their car, the General Lee. This was a top rated show on CBS and there simply was no protest as no one really cared as the Rebel flag was not considered a racist symbol then. Now the NAACP would call for a boycott of the show if CBS were to try something like that again. They have already commented on the upcoming remake of this show into a movie (there is no creativity today either) but have decided this is a losing battle since it only exposes the organization exists solely to promote itself.

[Blazer85]

Birmingham was obviously notorious for its role in the Civil Rights Movement. For many, Birmingham was in fact "ground zero." Of course people know about the bigger events (16th Street Church bombing and Martin Luther King Jr in jail), but those in combination with many other bombings and shootings earned Birmingham the title of "the most racially segregated city in the world" and sometimes called "Bombingham." The Church bombing was not the only bombing... it was just the most infamous. During the height of the movement, there was something like an average of 24 bombings or so per year that were racially motivated.

In any case, I'm proud to say Birmingham has changed alot. We're no perfect model of harmony between blacks and whites, but Birmingham has come a long way from where it was. Many black folks in Birmingham will tell you, in fact, that Birmingham is better now than most other major southern cities.

Anyone that ever visits Birmingham should take time to visit the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. Very educational and informative.

[krazeeboi]

Honky isn't used that much anymore, but when it was coined it was meant to describe white men who preyed upon poor black women who had to sell their bodies.  Pretty nasty if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nasty term, no doubt, but it was only used to describe a very limited subset of the white population which was characterized by a particular action, and not whites as a whole. Furthermore, the word wasn't coined to indicate any sort of inferiority by virtue of the lack of melanin in one's skin, along with other physical features. The "n" word, as well as others, have historically functioned like this. So again, I don't really see a comparison.

[satalac]

As the Cable Guy would say, and Dave Chappelle would probably agree, "I don't care who you are, thats funny"

No disrespect to the subject/discussion intended

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[monsoon]

Nasty term, no doubt, but it was only used to describe a very limited subset of the white population which was characterized by a particular action, and not whites as a whole. Furthermore, the word wasn't coined to indicate any sort of inferiority by virtue of the lack of melanin in one's skin, along with other physical features. The "n" word, as well as others, have historically functioned like this. So again, I don't really see a comparison.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The n world (as you call it) was not originally as offensive as it is now either. Case in point, it is used in Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn. And I will point out, since you brought up the Jeffersons, that ###### was often used on the another big 70s sitcom, Sanford & Son which also brought great laughs from the audience. ABC would never allow that today.

The use of any offensive slang directed at a person's race is racist. It doesn't matter what color the person is that does so.

[krazeeboi]

Well, I guess this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree. I do not condone racial epithets at all, whether directed towards blacks, whites, or others. While many of these terms don't carry the import that they have in the past, no other term has been wielded in such a way as the "n" word. It has systematically been used as a tool of dehumanization in the worst way, and the same simply cannot be said of racial slurs against whites. This is why I say that although terms like "honkey" and "cracker" are unacceptable, they are not racist inasmuch as they have not been used to systematically oppress white people, since whites are the dominant group in this nation.

[I-275westcoastflorida]

The south is probably the least racist compared to the rest of the country of course theyre are those small hick towns so there are bound to be some racists but for the most part i think the north is the most racist. But as far as the world europe is the most racist place in the world when i went there they asked me why i listen to "black music" note they did not say hip hop. And they had countless offensive jokes about them. I feel sorry for any black person who lives in europe they get talked behind their back its just awful somebody has to teach the europeans and its not only blacks but other races too and even countries is it me or they hate everyone but themselves i dont know. Its not all europeans but for the majority Also other races do make fun of whites which isnt right either my question is when will people learn?

[Dale]

Well, I guess this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree. I do not condone racial epithets at all, whether directed towards blacks, whites, or others. While many of these terms don't carry the import that they have in the past, no other term has been wielded in such a way as the "n" word. It has systematically been used as a tool of dehumanization in the worst way, and the same simply cannot be said of racial slurs against whites. This is why I say that although terms like "honkey" and "cracker" are unacceptable, they are not racist inasmuch as they have not been used to systematically oppress white people, since whites are the dominant group in this nation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all due respect, krazeeboi, can't this hypothesis also be used by aggreived parties to exercise leverage over parties said to be 'dominant' ?

[krazeeboi]

In what way?

[monsoon]

Well, I guess this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree. I do not condone racial epithets at all, whether directed towards blacks, whites, or others. While many of these terms don't carry the import that they have in the past, no other term has been wielded in such a way as the "n" word. It has systematically been used as a tool of dehumanization in the worst way, and the same simply cannot be said of racial slurs against whites. This is why I say that although terms like "honkey" and "cracker" are unacceptable, they are not racist inasmuch as they have not been used to systematically oppress white people, since whites are the dominant group in this nation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that is in the eyes of the beholder. I would assume the Native Americans would disagree with you greatly.

[monsoon]

And as a gay man, I can tell you there are plenty of offensive words that have been used to dehuminize gays even to this day and unlike ######, are still considered socially acceptable by 1/3 of the American population. (by all races)

[Noneck_08]

This is a difficult topic but it's true that racism is still a problem not only in the south but the rest of country to. The neverending battle between black's and the white's really is sickning. I'm black myself and I can say honestly that blacks really take racism to a new level. We always complain about how whites are so racist againsit us and how we should stay with our kind more, but thats not true. Sure there are the few but blacks take it way to hard. There ready to go to court because they were denined a job by a white man but do they rarly ever thinck maby they were the ones that messed up. Then theres the "N" word. Blacks see this word as the worst racist thing a white person can say to them but yet we use it as if it dosent matter. Just because we changed the ending from er to ga dosen't mean we can use it. When we call another one of our own that word it degrads them as if a white, or any other person were to say it. They really need to get over that espically our youth as that's now in there dictionary. Thats just my $0.02

[Dale]

In what way?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On further reflection, I suppose to ask the question is to answer the question. Of course white persons could be cowed by the supposition that only whites can be truly racist.

I liked it better when we were using the traditional definition of 'racism'. That is, excessive preoccupation with race or excluding/defaming/harming on basis of race. In other words, something damn near anyone can do.

[krazeeboi]

This is true as well, and it's sad. I really do cringe when I hear the word "cigar," and I wish people wouldn't use it.

That said, people are both dominant and subordinate, advantaged and disadvantaged, in many ways. We have racism, classism, sexism, anti-Semitism, sexual orientation discrimination, etc. which benefits one group and leaves another group at a disadvantage. This is why I do feel that even as powerful of an institution as racism is, we all would do well to understand the ways in which we are advantaged/disadvantaged due to race, ethnicity, class, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I believe this is key in overcoming all of the -isms, not only in the south, but in the entire nation.

[Dale]

This is true as well, and it's sad. I really do cringe when I hear the word "cigar," and I wish people wouldn't use it.

That said, people are both dominant and subordinate, advantaged and disadvantaged, in many ways. We have racism, classism, sexism, anti-Semitism, sexual orientation discrimination, etc. which benefits one group and leaves another group at a disadvantage. This is why I do feel that even as powerful of an institution as racism is, we all would do well to understand the ways in which we are advantaged/disadvantaged due to race, ethnicity, class, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I believe this is key in overcoming all of the -isms, not only in the south, but in the entire nation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And, at the risk of over-philosophizing, perhaps we might act as to overcome our preoccupation with skin color, positon, wealth, etc.

[monsoon]

And, at the risk of over-philosophizing, perhaps we might act as to overcome our preoccupation with skin color, positon, wealth, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will never happen. People love to blame responsibility for their problems on people that are different from themselves.

Better ask. Why don't people in America take responsibility for their actions, and be willing to make self sacrifices for the common good.

[krazeeboi]

I really wish it were that simple. I really do. Am I saying that personal responsibility doesn't play a part? Of course not. But it's not the only piece of the puzzle; it's simply the least confrontational.

[Dale]

I really wish it were that simple. I really do. Am I saying that personal responsibility doesn't play a part? Of course not. But it's not the only piece of the puzzle; it's simply the least confrontational.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have my attention. Beyond the exortations of personal responsibility, what should we do ? what are some of the other puzzle pieces ?

[krazeeboi]

Wow, this could actually be deserving of its own thread. LOL.

There are many other pieces which go into place. I don't claim to be any sort of expert in this matter, but here are many of my observations.

For parents, I believe it would be wise if racial matters were discussed with children at an early age and not simply brushed under the carpet. Many times children will make observations about people based on race and make them known (and in the most sensitive environments) and parents will get embarrassed and never actually deal with the questions brought up by the children; those are prime educational moments about the issue. Most of our impressions/opinions/views of race were embedded in us at an early age, largely through indirect means. Parents should teach their children to be actively anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-classist, etc. This, of course, results in adults who are sensitive (not paranoid) about these issues and are not afraid to confront them and speak out against them.

I think it should also be realized that racism (or any other -ism) isn't just the problem of white folks or black folks, but it is America's problem. We as a society must actively engage the issue, including the historical, cultural, and psychological aspects of it, and how all of us can work together (becoming self-sacrificial, as monsoon put it) to overcome it, and not blame each other. For instance, I recently read about something called "post-traumatic slavery disorder." Now, I don't want anyone to scan the name and automatically think that it's something that was concocted in order to avoid personal responsibility, because that's not the way it was presented in the article that I read. In short, it speaks of a set of values and behaviors, inherited from the time of slavery in America, that have been passed down through the generations in black families, which have largely become unchecked. Of course, with any of these theories, there will be areas of agreements and disagreements. I even heard one black activist say that that the institution of slavery in America was also traumatic to whites as well. At any rate, one viewpoint is offered here.

These two are what I believe to be two very important things that society as a whole can do in making progress in this area.

[Dale]

I certainly don't oppose the notion of frank discussion. Talk is at least less problematic than coercive strategies. Still, I wonder if we haven't talked the issue to death. I wonder what kinds of things need to be said that have not already been said, distinctly, with conviction ?