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Loughlin

Boston Finished, Manchester could Benefit.

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With Boston almost busting at the seams, New england will need a new metropolis. Manchester has unlimited potential, it is the biggest city in New Hampshire and one of the fastest growing in the country it has nearly unlimited space it is almost in the center of New England and most importanly it wants to grow.

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Well M.Brown will enjoy your assessment of his fair city.

Boston still has plenty of space to grow I think, but I do agree that Manchester will continue to grow. New Hampshire needs to impliment some policies that will allow it to grown urbanly rather than continuing to encourage the sprawl we see all up and down the Daniel Webster Highway.

Manchester is geographically central in New England, but (not to be a homer) I think Providence is much more central to the population density of the region. Providence also already has very good connections with highways and transit to Boston.

I don't think New England will ever have a second city that is on par with Boston, but Providence, Worcester, Manchester, and Hartford will continue to grow.

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Providence is faceing the same problem, for it to expand much more all of rhode island will become greater, but you are right about Hartford they have room, unfortunatly it is not a great place to be.

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With Boston almost busting at the seams, New england will need a new metropolis. Manchester has unlimited potential, it is the biggest city in New Hampshire and one of the fastest growing in the country it has nearly unlimited space it is almost in the center  of New England and most importanly it wants to grow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very Very True :D

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The real estate market in Boston is already out of reach for many "middle class" people. For many young professionals in Boston (like myself) looking to live in area where things are happening, Manchester may be a second place finish to Providence as Providence has a commuter rail that will drop you right at Boston's South Station. I think the financal district of Providence will experience a boom as more businesses are looking for cities that are ofering favorable tax advantages and other incentives. Like Manchester I think Providence is looking to grow and is doing a good job attracting $$ from Massachusetts real estate developers as its "downcity" and "eagle Square" sections offer huge potential returns. But one thing is for sure- Boston is getting bigger, more people keep coming, and the bottom line of Boston's real estate will continue to rise well into the future. Manchester is a really fun place to visit though and I know many people are heading up that way form Mass before the prices go through the roof there!

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Providence needs to learn from Boston's mistakes. They need to head off the out-of-control residential real estate prices. Real estate prices in Rhode Island are starting a swift climb, now is the time to ensure that affordable housing remains plentiful in the state.

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Maybe Mass should try to keep some of these people in state. What about running a high speed commuter rail type thing out west towards Worcester and Amherst, then encouraging these areas to dense up and grow. Maybe something like this already exists. Just an idea.

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Actually I think commuter rail to New Bedford/Fall River is a better way to keep people in-state than lines further west. NB/FR are very affordable, but not well connected to Boston. Trying to get people to commute from further west than Worcester is probably not a good idea, and will only lead to more sprawl in the western part of the state. To keep people in western Mass., Springfield really needs to improve. That city is a disaster in all ways. Connecting Springfield to Hartford via commuter rail is a good idea.

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I totally agree, those two need to get their own thing going work together. They're mutually the best things within proximity for each other. The stronger a link they have, the better off they'll be for it. I think a similar relationship should be strengthened between Providence, Fall River, and New Bedford. Fall River being about 15-20 minutes away and New Bedford being about 30 makes for a potentially large bay area metropolis. If we could extend rail service to these places from Providence, down west bay to Newport (which is a shorter trip for FR and NB, at least on the roads) and use the freight lines to take advantage of FR and NB becoming busy ports again, then this whole small region would blossom. I would like to go visit Manchester sometime though, I really don't know much about it besides what I've read and what I've seen in pictures. I'm thinking of going there sometime when it gets a little warmer. If anybody has some suggestions on what to do then email me or something.

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The state lines in New England are too often too much of a barrier. Springfield is a hole, and it needs to be able to work with Hartford to grow. Hartford can pull itself up by itself I think, but working with Springfield will help it.

Look at Portsmouth, if New Hampshire and Maine would stop fighting over the Navy Yard for a minute, they'd see that they have a really good thing going on the Seacoast. There's no one large city there, but there's a great collection of small urban areas, Portsmouth, Dover, Durham, Exeter, Kittery, OOB, Hampton Beach, if they could all work together and reach out to each other across the border think how great they could be. I was all set to move to Portsmouth a couple years ago, but I realized their public transit is almost non-existant, I would need two cars, and the housing prices are so high, I would have been better off staying in New York when I combined housing with two cars. Get a good inter-state regional transit system working there, and watch that area take off.

Providence and FR/NB are stymied by a border. Providence can hold it's own, but it would help to have these two other cities become fully part of it's metro area. And NB/FR would certainly benefit from being fully tied into Providence. Even if commuter rail is ever built to Boston, they are still right next to Providence and more influenced by it than Boston. Break the barriers caused by the state line and the region would flourish.

Boston will always be the Hub, but there is the potential to have these great urban nodes residing on the spokes of Boston's hub, the 6 states have to make an effort to work together to make it happen though.

Massachusetts must realize that it's small potatoes without it's neighbours. Rhode Island needs to get rid of the damn corruption, no one else wants to play with us, we're too slimy. Connecticut needs to realize that the entire state is not part of the New York metro, there's a huge chunk of that state that is more tied to New England than New York. New Hampshire needs to play fair, put up or shut up, you can't have your live free or die cake and eat it too. Maine needs to wake up and realize that it's more than pine trees and lobster, there's a huge urban area hanging off the bottom of that state. And Vermont is perfect in every way and the rest of us should worship at it's feet. :P

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If they tried somthing like that Portsmouth would have to be the hub and i dont see them developing anything anytime soon, portsmouth has tried to work with newington but newington is a much more powerful town, richest in northern new england if i am correct, anyway portsmouths downtown is huge for a city with such a low pop but i dont see them letting it get any bigger. Were i live we have a name for that region its Called

Port City meaning Portsmouth,newington,Rye,New Caslte , and Greenland, i try to use the nickname as much as i can so maybe it will catch on.

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Someday, when the topic of New England comes up, Manchester will be the first thing that comes to everyones mind!!

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Providence is faceing the same problem, for it to expand much more all of rhode island will become greater, but you are right about Hartford they have room, unfortunatly it is not a great place to be.

It's not? When's the last time you were in Hartford other than to drive through on the highway?

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What about the Norwich/Groton/New London area of CT? With Utopia on the table and likely to be passed by town voters in Preston, the area is in line for quite a bit of growth. Utopia's leaders say the theme park component of the project will attract more visitors than Disney World in Orlando.

I'm not sure how they came up with these figures, and considering that Disney World is 47 sq miles and the Utopia site is 419 acres I'm a little skeptical how this will fit. Maybe Utopia brokered a back room deal with the Pequots (Owners of "Indan" casinos whose reservation's acreage is in the thousands), who wanted a domed theme park 13 years ago, or maybe they're planning on acquiring some other land? If it is what they say it is, we could see the new #2 metropolis in New England pop up in a short amount of time. Hopefully if this is the case, local leaders pull their heads out of their collective asses and build highways and rail infrastructure and be thoughtful when re-zoning the area before traffic and sprawl issues become unbearable.

Many of the highways in this area were half-built by the state and left unfinished. If you know the area at all, routes 11, 2, 2a, and 32 were all started and left unfinished, terminating in out of the way places. Hopefully if they get around to finishing route 2 (road to world's largest casino) they could also secure the right of way for rail lines.

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First, I don't think Bosotn has hit it's max yet. The problem is that there is so much effort to curtail growth already that they are making it unaffordable. Kind of an artificial land shortage.

Having said that, I do think several of the other New England cities are poised for some substantial growth. And tehre is no need for the competition, either - they would actually benefit each other if they all grew in their own ways. This would be even more beneficial if there was good regional transportation between the different cities, and not just Boston, and not just commuter trains over frieght tracks. The area is ripe for a more European-style train system.

Part of the problem, however, is that New England really has a small town mentality to it still - the LAST thing a good part of the population wants is any more growth - they already have everything they need.

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Southeastern NE is evolving favorably as a region. Boston has become expensive because of nimbyism, large lot requirements, etc. Manchester and southern NH have been a less expensive relief valve for a long time. NH should build a rail link to Boson. Providence has an advantage in its waterfront location and large stock of old warehouse and other buildings. Bow that the momentum is moving forward, former blighted areas are becoming decent. Boston continues to grow and build. Portland ME is becoming part of the Boston metro, and is a great city in itself. Eventually the southeastern NE metro area will be officially recognized as extending from Providence to Manchester to Portland(population around 8 million).

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I think one thing holding New England back is the lack of a good transportation infrastructure. Unlike areas out west, where things are flat enough to build these wide straight roads, NEw England is a tangle of older narrow roads, and it take a lot longer to get from one point to another. Mind you, that is what makes New England much more special - that difficulty in driving everywhere encourages town center growth.

But I think a really good rail system - not just these huge commuter trains the MBTA uses but smaller DMUs and EMUs like Europe has, would really start to make these samller cities stand out. Each one can compliment the other, if they were connected. Providence has the hip city feel, Hartford is a business center, Portland offers a more tourist-centered city and proximity to Boston, and Manchester offers a lot of industrial expansion and affordability. They won't do that well independently, but togethre could really become something.

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So Portland is that close to Boston? How longh would it take to drive between the two with traffic not being an issue? How many miles is it?

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So Portland is that close to Boston? How longh would it take to drive between the two with traffic not being an issue? How many miles is it?

Well.. it's over 100 miles away. In New England terms, that's a huge distance.

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So Portland is that close to Boston? How longh would it take to drive between the two with traffic not being an issue? How many miles is it?

It's a rough commute, no doubt about it, but people are doing it. The drive is around 2 hours, during the summer the NH section of I95 can have very heavy traffic on either end of the weekend due to tourist traffic. During the winter the Maine Turnpike often has speed restrictions or shuts down entriely due to snow. When you're doing this commute in the winter, it's dark when you leave, and dark when you get home. There's more people commuting from the Portsmouth, NH - Kittery, ME area (about halfway between the Boston and Portland) and Portland's southern suburbs than Portland proper, but people are commuting from Portland. The Downeaster Amtrak line has multiride commuter fares and is about a 2 1/2 hour trip. It's very popular with commuters. There are a few crazies who drive from north of Portland to take the Downeaster into Boston.

People are doing commutes this long and longer in other areas of the country where the central city has very high housing costs, New York and San Francisco most notably.

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As is always the case in New England, it all depends upon the traffic. It's actually a pretty straight shot between the two. It also depends upon how fast you drive. It can be done in an hour and a quarter. Wouldn't recommend it, but I know it can be done.

I think you also find people who live just South of Portland, who don't commute to Boston proper but either the North Shore or places like Burlingotn and such. But the same thing goes west and south - there are people who commute from Connecticut, and there are people who commute from western Mass. Prices are just too high to live close.

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But the same thing goes west and south - there are people who commute from Connecticut, and there are people who commute from western Mass. Prices are just too high to live close.

Just imagine what'll happen to commuters if Utopia is built. There will be NO affordable housing in affordable housing in southern New England. Hooray for greedy, ignorant voters!

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