Charlotte's Cool Factor

[UptownGrrl]

Tommy Tomlinson opinions usually only state the obvious and cater to any of the current cliches that exist in Charlotte.    His opinions are not worth the paper they are written on. 

I find this whole idea of a "creative class" a bit pompus and arrogant of the people who put forth ideas such as this.  (of course they include themselves in this bunch)  If there were not creative people in Charlotte, we would not be adding tens of thousands of residents to the county year after year especially when many of the so called "creative" cities continue to lose out.    Do they think that all these people moving here are dullards who deserve to be looked down upon by the ivory tower?

Also, there is no difference in this generation vs generations that came before them.  Again another arrogant statement.  People are going to move where they can get a good job.  It has always been this way and it will always be that way for most.  Before you go out tye dying shirts, you have to put food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.  If this wasnt the case, San Francisco would not be suffering one of the biggest population drops in its history.  This despite being called the capital of the "creative class".  I am reminded of the old saying "Money Talks and BS Walks".

Consultants are a waste of money and are no substitute for just plain old common sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously, you need to know you'll be able to get a job to move somewhere. The point is more about how new and future workers weigh the factors in choosing one job or one city over another. The generational difference shows itself when you see a recent college grad entertaining multiple offers from different companies in different cities. Its no longer an automatic choice in favor of the job with the highest salary and more long range potential. Given that this newly minted grad will probably have six or seven jobs before the age of 30, he or she is more likely to choose based on the greatest quality of life - even <gasp> choosing a lower paying job in order to live in a 'cool' city. Its much more likely future workers will have a greater loyalty to a community rather than to a company. I think there are most definitely generational differences. Colleges are no longer pumping out "company men" that will stay in one place for 40 years.

And, please don't misunderstand the term creative class. It does not refer to an elite "ivory tower" group, and its not limited, as some may infer, to artists, writers and performers. It simply means people who use creativity and problem solving as their main job skills instead of more tradtional "old economy" jobs. You can object to it or call it something else, but, we are becoming an economy, not exclusively - but, overwhelmingly - of knowledge workers. The truth is, there are differences, and the companies and cities that don't recognize this that are going to miss out down the line.

You mention SF, which unfortunately, learned the lesson of having all their eggs in one industry basket (sound like anywhere we know??). One reason SF was able to take off in the first place though was the upward spiral of companies opening/locating there - people moving there to get those jobs - more companies opening there to hire those employees - more people moving there to get those jobs and so on. That's not the only factor though. It would have been a less attractive deal all around if SF wasn't such a dynamic, living city. I would be curious to see, in SF's case, how many of the people that originally moved there for a job, stayed, even when that job disappeared - any number greater than 0% indicates that the city had something else to offer.

Its true - Charlotte does have creative/knowledge workers now and more continue to move here all the time. Its the forward thinkers though who realize this needs to be fostered (with a light, but deliberate hand) so that Charlotte can increase retention and recruitment (particularly as the baby boomers soon begin to leave the workforce in droves...). Its harder to attract the companies without the workers, and its harder to attract tomorrow's workers without certain quality of life amenities and attributes. It all works together.

Finally, to be a bit of a smart aleck, I wonder if you subconsciously revealed one of the starkest generational differences yourself. I wouldn't have said anything at all about the 'paper' on which Mr. Tomlinson's commentary was written -- only saw it online. Tomorrow's workforce will have been adept at using computers and the internet since about the age of three. They'll do everything differently, not the least of which will be their job searching and relocation scouting.

[Charboy65]

I'm not trying to offend here, but (perhaps) make Charlotte a better place. I do agree that Charlotte is boring as compared to other peer cities. I travel to different cities in my job and all over the country. So, don't get me wrong, I'm always happy to get off the plane and kick my feet up at home, but I often want to get out and sample home. This often presents a big problem. It just seems that all of the stuff that goes on downtown is targeted to a certain demo (20 & 30 something, white single professionals.), and that group is by-and-large very stuffy. As a 40-year old native of western NC, and a true hillbilly at heart, I don't feel at home when I get out and about in CLT. Overall, I think CLT & Charlotteans too often try to be something they are not. This town needs to learn to relax and Coolness will follow.

[spectacle21]

This is a fairly interesting topic. I'm a Charlotte native and a current student @ a Atlanta college. In my short life, I've watched my hometown dramatically transform in an "overnight" manner. Charlotte is truly a unique city as far as the wealth, unprecedented growth, and job opportunities are concerned. But as far as the entertainment/"cool" aspect goes, the city truly lags. True, its in a pubescent stage of growing pains and working out kinks. But at the same time, identity is the main point.

Being @ school that pulls students from ALL over the country, I am sometimes ashamed to tell people where I'm from. People ranging from California to New Hampshire do indeed know about us, but they can't match a certain idenity to us.

I hate to compare Charlotte to Atlanta (as so many people do), but I have to in this example. Although Atlanta is a supersprawled version of Charlotte, it has many things that accomodates world-class citizens. Creativity is a major factor, with places such as Buckhead (which is almost like a whole other city in its own respect) that's host to many ecletic venues, Midtown, Centennial Park, and the GWCC/GA Dome/Phillips Arena Complex. The reasons why these places are so appealing and popular is because they are n'sync with the identity of Atlanta and they cater to ALL people. And although people stab Atlanta for being SprawlCity, USA, its metropolitan area is far more organized than the Charlotte Metro Region.

Thats probably why Atlanta overshadows us in the first place - there's a sense of togetherness in the region. Gwinnett, Fulton, Cobb, Fayette, Dekalb Counties all contribute to the success of Atlanta.

In Charlotte, our metro region still contains communities no more than 25 miles away that view our city as some far away huge city that they aspire to become (i.e. the citizens of Mooresville, NC...i have family there). Sure, Charlotte is growing into a fairly large city, but there is still an endearing "backwoods" mentality that kinda stunts our growth in coolness. Identity-in my opinion, Charlotte already has an identity....we were named after a queen. We should really capitalize on that image of being the Queen City. We should have a downtown shopping area that bares the name "Queen" in its somewhere and is built to sort of resemble a Queen's crown. We should rather want to be seen as the Queen City on a national scale instead of the "growing Southern city that could....NOT."

As a person in his late teens, I would also like to add that Charlotte really needs venues to cater to the teenage population. Concord Mills and Eastland Mall are just not gonna do it.

[monsoon]

Obviously, you need to know you'll be able to get a job to move somewhere. The point is more about how new and future workers weigh the factors in choosing one job or one city over another. The generational difference shows itself when you see a recent college grad entertaining multiple offers from different companies in different cities. Its no longer an automatic choice in favor of the job with the highest salary and more long range potential. Given that this newly minted grad will probably have six or seven jobs before the age of 30, he or she is more likely to choose based on the greatest quality of life - even <gasp> choosing a lower paying job in order to live in a 'cool' city. Its much more likely future workers will have a greater loyalty to a community rather than to a company. I think there are most definitely generational differences. Colleges are no longer pumping out "company men" that will stay in one place for 40 years. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously you have some misconceptions about the real world and the past. First of all there is no evidence to support your assertions about this generation looking for "cool" places over high paying jobs. If anything this generation is less detatched from any sense of community than ones prior to this one. And if this theory of "I am gonna find a "cool" place to live first" was true, you would not find such places as Dallas, Atlanta, suburban Chicago, Houston, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, etc etc. growing at the enormous rates they are. The evidence just is not there. Gen Xers, Gen Yers and whatever you call them chase the dollar as never before. If you have actual evidence to prove otherwise I would like to see it.

The idea of colleges turning out "company men" hasn't existed since the 1950s. Maybe you were not familiar with the anti-establishment, anti-technology,pro-environment, anti-war, pro civil rights movements of the 60's & 70's. These people truely gave up the dollar to move and create "cool" places (wonder where the word "cool" comes from) and seek some meaning out of life. I see no evidence that today's generation is doing anything similar. In fact considering that its now all about consumerism, self image, and making the dollar, is no wonder that you see people chasing after pre-packaged StarBucks and other similar venues. Where are the "Woodstocks" of the current generation? Answer: On MTV. I won't even bother with the comments about Buckhead and the backwoods Mooresville people in the post after yours. LOL

You are completely wrong about SF's recent history as well. People in the 60s & 70s moved there not to take jobs, but instead because it was the center of the anti-War movement in the USA. (along with other movements) In addition, Gays moved to the inner city because they would be left alone and free to do as they pleased. These people were not looking for "cool", they created it. It was later in the 80s when the corporations moved in and brought the jobs and high prices. Guess what, now that the jobs are not there it is the younger generations that are moving out. Only goes to prove my point again.

I only viewed the Tomlinson's article online as well. You said that you would not have used the term "not worth the paper it is written on". The reason implied is because online people such as yourself do things differently, better, yada yada than those of the past. Yet just prior to that you used the "all their eggs in one industry basket" metaphor. When was the last time you went out to collect eggs from chickens in an hen house? I am not trying to be a smart aleck either, but don't think that was very "adept" as you put it. LOL

If you choose to ignore or dismiss everything that existed prior to your birth that is your choice. But I think you are losing out myself and is probably the primary reason that you are so wrong about this subject. Every generation thinks they will do it better than their parents. Yours is no different.

[ElricSeven]

Take it easy dude, we're all here because we share the same interest of a better Charlotte. Every generation has its own time and place, some changes made be some generations are more subtle than others, especially when the X-er's are outnumbered two or three to one by the previous generation.

We need to listen to different feedback, collect as many facts and opinions as we can and then make a decision. That's the efforts being made on this board, in the media and by the City Committee and other groups. I don't fault the X-er's for trying to make some noise, they've pretty much been ignored up until now due to the lack of mass and buying power of the boomers and WWII generation. We don't want to sound like those of the WWII generation that were intolerant of all the "potsmoking hippies that grew their hair long and refused to fight in a war and had big protest and thought they were more important than everyone else."

[ebw02]

Obviously you have some misconceptions about the real world and the past. First of all there is no evidence to support your assertions about this generation looking for "cool" places over high paying jobs. If anything this generation is less detatched from any sense of community than ones prior to this one. And if this theory of "I am gonna find a "cool" place to live first" was true, you would not find such places as Dallas, Atlanta, suburban Chicago, Houston, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, etc etc. growing at the enormous rates they are. The evidence just is not there. Gen Xers, Gen Yers and whatever you call them chase the dollar as never before. If you have actual evidence to prove otherwise I would like to see it.

OK, here you go - I'm some evidence. I came to Charlotte for a job and after a few years haven't found the sense of community I grew up with in my home city and have experienced visiting other metropolitan areas. In my next move I know to value that feeling of history and inclusiveness where I choose to live. The lack of it here is what drives me to leave, even it it means leaving behind a lucrative job and cheaper rent.

[UptownGrrl]

The idea of colleges turning out "company men" hasn't existed since the 1950s.  Maybe you were not familiar with the anti-establishment, anti-technology,pro-environment, anti-war, pro civil rights movements of the 60's & 70's.  These people truely gave up the dollar to move and create "cool" places (wonder where the word "cool" comes from) and seek some meaning out of life.  I see no evidence that today's generation is doing anything similar.  In fact considering that its now  all about consumerism, self image, and making the dollar, is no wonder that you see people chasing after pre-packaged StarBucks and other similar venues.  Where are the "Woodstocks" of the current generation?  Answer: On MTV.  I won't even bother with the comments about Buckhead and the backwoods Mooresville people in the post after yours.  LOL 

You are completely wrong about SF's recent history as well.  People in the 60s & 70s moved there not to take jobs, but instead because it was the center of the anti-War movement in the USA. (along with other movements)  In addition, Gays moved to the inner city because they would be left alone and free to do as they pleased.  These people were not looking for "cool", they created it.    It was later in the 80s when the corporations moved in and brought the jobs and high prices.  Guess what, now that the jobs are not there it is the younger generations that are moving out.  Only goes to prove my point again. 

I only viewed the Tomlinson's article online as well.  You said that you would not have used the term "not worth the paper it is written on".  The reason implied is because online people such as yourself do things differently, better, yada yada than those of the past.  Yet just prior to that you used the "all their eggs in one industry basket" metaphor.  When was the last time you went out to collect eggs from chickens in an hen house?  I am not trying to be a smart aleck either, but don't think that was very "adept" as you put it.  LOL 

If you choose to ignore or dismiss everything that existed prior to your birth that is your choice.  But I think you are losing out myself and is probably the primary reason that you are so wrong about this subject.  Every generation thinks they will do it better than their parents.  Yours is no different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I can't apologize for my age and can only state that I do what I can to learn from the best of the past, in order to emulate it, and the worst of the past, in order to avoid it - but overall, am more focused on the future, in order to embrace it.

Regarding SF, I was describing even a more recent past - the tech boom that created hugh population jumps, and its subsequent decline. The Gen Xers, and the companies, came for the money and for the lifestyle. When the jobs left, not all of the people left. Some stayed for the lifestyle - and found work in another industry, went back to school, started their own company, worked at a bookstore - whatever - cause they grew attached to the place. Will Charlotteans need to be fickle, fair weather friends, failing to put down roots and taking off at the first economic downturn, or could our culture be compelling enough to make them stick around?

When you mentioned the 60's and 70's in SF though, I saw a glimmer that we may be closer in opinion than either of us recognize. You said those were the people that created "cool". That's what I want for Charlotte - we may not have it yet, but it will take people moving here because they feel it is a welcoming, inclusive society where they can do their day job, and then go play in a band on the weekend. If paying the bills these days means working in an office 9-5, at least, let's get some nifty alternatives going for the other hours of the day. I want people to think that if they move here they will have the freedom to opt out of what some have called our button-down, cookie cutter culture. Its tough when we know how great Charlotte can be, but the rest of the nation sees it as a shiny banking city..."Charlotte -- its so...clean." Keeping the place a secret just for us is tempting, but its not good for our economic future.

What was the motivation to move to SF prior to it becoming uber-hip? Anything we can learn from that? I admit, Trade & Tryon is not Haight & Ashbury. Perhaps we don't want to be. Even the Haight has evolved from smokeshops to internet cafes and funky boutiques, but it still has a lot of authentic flair. This is not a call for Charlotte to wave a magic wand, throw up some Starbucks kiosks throughout the convention center <groan> to show visitors how 'with it' we are. Let's get more people here that might stuff their corporate job and start a record label or open a yerba mate shop.

And, as for the eggs, you're right, I didn't go the farm. The farmers were nice enough to bring them to me under a nice green tent on a sunny Saturday morning, where I could stroll and say hi to my neighbors, and pick out my eggs from a big basket. It was nice.

I think its evident that those of us who choose to participate, in forums such as these, or through civic activism are not simply chasing the dollar. We're out to try and improve our communities for our own sake and the sake of future generations. Maybe its less authentic and more crass than it "used to be" because we're including economic improvement as an important goal as well, but that doesn't mean we can't tip our hats (<--- anachronism alert) to previous generations and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony on the way to the bank. B)

[SmellyCat]

]

OK, here you go - I'm some evidence. I came to Charlotte for a job and after a few years haven't found the sense of community I grew up with in my home city and have experienced visiting other metropolitan areas.

Not trying to start a flame war here, but I wholeheartedly disagree compared to my own personal experience. I moved to Charlotte from NYC, perhaps the city with the strongest sense of "community" (as in smaller communities within the big city) and do find a similar sense of community here, obviously on a much smaller scale. I also believe that Charlotte is getting "cooler" by the day, especially as people with diverse backgrounds of all sorts continue to migrate here from other parts of the country.

It will take time, but Charlotte is doing many thing right and will get there eventually. The biggest problem I see is the attitude toward the "red state southerners" by those in other parts of the country, particularly the Northeast, who think this place is nothing more than a bunch of redneck, gun-toting pickup truck drivers who carry bibles and eat grits. We all know this is far from the truth, but certain parts of the country just have that elitist attitude. This myopia is the major hindrance to Charlotte being considered cool.

[ElricSeven]

Interesting article.

I agree with the part about there needs to be affordable living for everyone in the city core. It's great to see a growing interest in DT living but it's not being done because it's practical. Many growing southern cities are going through the "en vouge" DT condo movement, but many of these condos are priced well beyond most peoples means, unless your pulling in 6 figures of course. To help curb some sprawl cities should seriously take the urban movement into consideration not just b/c it's cool but because it's practical. Build and develop the "boheimian village" or areas like it and then build affordale housing in the vicinity. Just my 2 cents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hear this so often that I'm curious as to what is and isn't affordable?

I think Uptown is very affordable, as long as you aren't demanding to have a suburbanite amount of land and square footage in a single-family home. My current condo is 30% more costly to buy and half the space as my suburban home. However, because it is smaller without a yard I pay less to heat, clean, and maintain it. In addition, I can save on parking and driving costs which, especially with the cost of gasoline, adds up to about $300 per month. Further, I have enough extra time that I can get a little overtime or bonus pay if I want to.

If you really want to leverage the location, you can ditch the car entirely or get a beater that costs about $1000. Less taxes, less car costs.

There are other savings that I've realized and I've come out really far ahead on the move, even with a more expensive place.

Please let me know if I'm missing something, because I just can't see it.

[monsoon]

....

When you mentioned the 60's and 70's in SF though, I saw a glimmer that we may be closer in opinion than either of us recognize. You said those were the people that created "cool". That's what I want for Charlotte - we may not have it yet, but it will take people moving here because they feel it is a welcoming, inclusive society where they can do their day job, and then go play in a band on the weekend. If paying the bills these days means working in an office 9-5, at least, let's get some nifty alternatives going for the other hours of the day. I want people to think that if they move here they will have the freedom to opt out of what some have called our button-down, cookie cutter culture. Its tough when we know how great Charlotte can be, but the rest of the nation sees it as a shiny banking city..."Charlotte -- its so...clean." Keeping the place a secret just for us is tempting, but its not good for our economic future.

....

I think its evident that those of us who choose to participate, in forums such as these, or through civic activism are not simply chasing the dollar. We're out to try and improve our communities for our own sake and the sake of future generations. Maybe its less authentic and more crass than it "used to be" because we're including economic improvement as an important goal as well, but that doesn't mean we can't tip our hats (<--- anachronism alert) to previous generations and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony on the way to the bank.    B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Present company excepted, society in general now is so obsessed with consumerism and paying for it, there is little time or motivation left to create "cool" anymore. Instead we let the developers do it for us and we end up with places such as Birkdale Village, Phillip's Place, the Midtown square redevelopment, downtown Charlotte, and countless others where most consider this "cool" now. (See my thread titled "The Failure of New Urbanism" if you want a good example of this.) I certainly wish more of the population would take the time to participate as you do, but sadly they don't. The activism of the 60s and 70s doesn't exist anymore because people simply accept the status quo.

I agree that people are made to feel welcomed here but mainly because that is one of the few vestages of Southern culture left in Charlotte and ironically something that most here don't want to be identified with. Charlotte's biggest issue I think is that it won't accept the fact that it is a Southern city and refuses to promote the advantages that come with that. So instead we make attempts to copy other places (and this goes back over 100 years BTW) and fail at it everytime.

[larry]

When I was a teenager, I used to be a bellhop in Charlotte. This was before I went the army. Anyway, this was in the mid-late 60s. I don't think that outsiders have any real idea of how cool Charlotte was back in those days. To begin with, I don't know anyone that ever listened to country music despite the image that we were hicks. As a matter of fact, I was fondest of WGIV with Chattie Hattie (a black radio station). I knew of dozens of cool night spots to visit that usually required private memberships or operated under ground and of course, brownbagging was the rule of theday unless it was a private club. What many don't realize is how open Charlotte was with gays. I remember the Brass Rail Club on the corner of Morehead and Tryon, the Blue Note Lounge which was by the Manor Theater, and the Anchor Inn (I forgot where it was), only to name a few places. These places were thrieving in the early 60s. As a matter of fact, Charlotte had a reuptation of being a major gay capital.

Anyway, as a bellhop (and a successful one), I had to be intimately familiar with the city and know places to send visitors and on occasion to go party with them. My point is that Charlotte was a fovorite spot of many visitors from places like NYC, Chicago, and other places of size.

I don't think that Charlotte was ever a backward city despite preconceived ideas of those from far away. And I'll bet that some of the clubs with sex acts in Charlotte in the late 60s and 70s wouldn't be seen in places like Boston. I still get a boner thinking about Morgana the Wild One. I know that she now looks like Granny Clampet probably.

Charlotte was always a cool place for people that knew the city.

[monsoon]

I remember WGIV and Daylight 15 which was essentially a Gay radio station in Charlotte. (Imagine the protests of something like that now.) All of the stations in Charlotte now are either Clear Channel or Infinity which ship in canned music.

I do remember the BR when it was at Trade & Tryon. I have said before the Gay community can make for a very good time in very adverse places, but you can bet that this consultant hired by the city isn't going to suggest that people start going to the drag shows at The Scorpio. (or any of the other similar venues in town) Scorpio, BTW is one of the oldest Gay dance clubs in the entire country and has been operating in its present location since the mid 70s. But you won't find that fact on a Charlotte Chamber brochure.

[Larryfla]

    I remember WGIV and Daylight 15 which was essentially a Gay radio station in Charlotte.  (Imagine the protests of something like that now.)  All of the stations in Charlotte now are either Clear Channel or Infinity which ship in canned music. 

I do remember the BR when it was at Trade & Tryon.  I have said before the Gay community can make for a very good time in very adverse places, but you can bet that this consultant hired by the city isn't going to suggest that people start going to the drag shows at The Scorpio.  (or any of the other similar venues in town)  Scorpio, BTW is one of the oldest Gay dance clubs in the entire country and has been operating in its present location since the mid 70s.    But you won't find that fact on a Charlotte Chamber brochure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is the Scorpio located at the downtown end of Freedom Drive? I remember in the 60s how many times it changed names. Mostly because of shootings. I guess they finally found a non-violent crowd of customers?

[Southend]

in response to charlotte not having an identity? who cares? i certainly don't.

i go to noda for a little funk, south end for a little casuality, uptown for the adventure, plaza midwood for the "chill" and south park for the creature comforts.

[monsoon]

Is the Scorpio located at the downtown end of Freedom Drive?  I remember in the 60s how many times it changed names. Mostly because of shootings.  I guess they finally found a non-violent crowd of customers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe you are thinking of a different place as I have never heard this about the Scorpio. It is currently located about midways between Morehead and I-85 and has been there since around 1977. Prior to that, I am told that it was located on S. Blvd in today's South End since the owners at the time owned property there and operated a XXX Video/Book store right around Tremont.

You might be thinking of the Brass Rail which was located, as mentioned above at Morehead and Tryon. It later moved to a very close in location on Wilkenson, and then moved again further out on Wilkenson where it remained until it closed in 2000 or 2001.

The other long term club, Oleen's was located right in South End for decades, but rising real estate costs caused the closure of that bar around 2000 since the owners felt they could make more re-developing that property rather than let it remain a neighborhood place. This is what happens to cool in Charlotte.