Public Transit in Providence

[Cotuit]

you guys have probably seen this site before, http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/ , and i'm sure there are many others like it,

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I've been meaning to get a Keyhole account for a while. I've been hoping they'd introduce Mac support, but I might just have to settle for using it on my PC.

[Vallon]

I've been toying around with this for a couple of days. The map above illustrates my vision for a new RI transit system which would no longer be known as the RIDOT but rather the MPTA. Yes, it's totally a ripoff of the MBTA - but the emphasis here is on Providence. This new system would incorporate the existing Interstate Highway structure with a series of new Commuter Rail lines which would run out from Providence to areas around the state and beyond.

I've used different colors to identify these separate passenger lines. The purpose of the Commuter Rail is to connect Suburban/Residential areas with Downcity Providence in an effort to boost the economy and growth of both Providence and the rest of the State.

Commuter Rail lines would reduce pollution and congestion on our Interstate System and would benefit millions that come through the state... visitors, as well as those that live here, work here and play here. This entire idea is based around the concept of centrality and linking the state so that travel is faster, easier and cleaner. The revenue generated by regular travelers would help pay for this project and in years to come would put more money back into the State. This money, along with decreased road traffic will diminish repair costs for our roads and bridges and provide the Transportation Authority with the funds it so desperately needs. Rhode Island is known for having some of the worst roads in the Nation. One of the best ways to protect our cars from potholes and avoiding traffic jams at Rush Hour is to reduce the traffic on our roads by creating a Commuter Rail System.

In my drawings... I've created Commuter Lines over paths that were once traveled by Rail cars 110 years ago. The map that I drew over is from 1895... during the height of Railway Expansion. While it's important not to disturb communities that may have since removed rails - the greater good of the State must be taken into consideration. Like any major construction undertaking involving built-up areas - certain buildings must be demolished. But it's my belief that the benefits of creating such a system would far outweigh the disruption it could cause initially.

Providence Station

In order for such a vast rail system to function properly... extensive work would have to be done to Providence Station to accomodate numerous tracks coming in from all directions. Providence would need a station on the scale of Downtown Crossing or South Station in Boston to accomodate different rails and possibly a new bus station that would be adjacent. Kennedy Plaza would be reconfigured as a Copley Square-ish open plaza with fountains and benches, and possibly developed in part.

Blackstone Valley Line

Along with the Attleboro-Boston line which would travel north and stop at a new Pawtucket Station... there would also be a Blackstone Valley line which would run North through Central Falls, Cumberland, Lincoln, Woonsocket and on to Worcester. This line is used today primarily for freight and on rare occassions, a tourist car. This line would reconnect downtown Woonsocket with downcity Providence and would promote growth of both areas.

Northwest Line

This line would travel through Johnston, Smithfield, Glocester and end in Burriville at Pascoag. A station in Greenville would help attract shoppers. This would make traveling to Providence much easier for those in the Northwest corner of our state.

Casino Line

As the name suggests - the ultimate destination of this line would be Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun. However, it would first go through Cranston, Warwick, West Warwick and Coventry... linking the middle part of the state with Providence. Since Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun seem to be frequent destinations of choice for many Rhode Islanders - it makes sense to connect them to Providence. I'm not sure where there are existing tracks/path in proximity to Ledyard or Uncasville - but considering that much of this area is largely wooded... I don't think it would be a problem. Creating a link between CT and RI is bound to bring revenue to both places. If the Narragansetts ever build a casino here in RI - chances are it wouldn't be too far from the path of the Casino Line.

Narragansett Line

This line would follow the path of the existing AMTRAK Acela line (or be built along it). It would go south from Providence through Cranston and Warwick... where a large station would be built at TF Green Airport. Adding a commuter rail line between Providence and TF Green would do for Providence what the Ted Williams Tunnel did for Boston. There would also be service beyond TF Green to Quonset at Davisville. A link via train between Quonset and Providence would help the Quonset area develop and prosper. Beyond Quonset the line would travel down to Kingston and provide URI students and faculty with a link to Providence and the rest of the state. Having this line open on weekends would help bolster Providence nightlife and at the same time... cut down on drunk drivers and accidents. The line would continue on to New London and New Haven where it would join the NYC Metro.

East Bay Line-Fall River Line

Connecting the city of Fall River with Providence via a commuter line that would run through Swansea, Warren, Barrington, and East Providence. This would help link the two cities and reduce traffic on 195. There would also be an offshoot line that would connect Newport to Providence via a line that would run through Middletown, Portsmouth and Bristol. There would also be a connection between Newport and Fall River. This line would encourage growth and development in Fall River, attract more tourism to Newport in the summer and give workers around the state another way to get to Providence.

Taunton Line

A new line would connect Providence to Taunton, Mass and would travel through East Providence, Seekonk, and Rehobeth. This link would help both cities grow and bring more people from Massachusetts into RI (without the fear of their driving habits )

I'm sure there's a great deal of you that think this is a ridiculous idea, but here's one even more shocking. In order for Providence to grow, and for this new transportation hub to truly benefit the surrounding area of Providence and indeed, the entire state... several towns and cities in Massachusetts should be annexed to the state of Rhode Island. As outlined below...

Providence's proximity to the Massachusetts border hinders it's growth and prevents it from growing eastward. The above map shows in green the Providence Metro Area according the US Government. Notice that a substantial part of Bristol County, MA all along the RI border is considered to be part of Providence's metro area. So what I propose isn't so shocking if you look at it in black & white... or green & white. These towns and cities benefit from Providence... and Providence benefits from them. Many people live in these communities and travel across the border into RI. So why not reorganize these areas and add them to the Providence Metro Area? RI and these communities would benefit much more if they did not have a boundary dividing them. By adding this section of Bristol County... Rhode Island would gain a third more territory. Providence would benefit from having more room to grow, and by expanding it's transit area.

Along with the annexation of these towns I propose that a new Interstate Annex be created that would join 295 in N. Attleboro and would swing down through Attleboro, Rehobeth, Swansea and end in Barrington (or perhaps a large interchange w/ 195 further North). This addition would complete an Interstate Ring around Providence and would encourage growth along it's perimeter.

All together... these improvements and additions to RI's existing transit system would help bring Rhode Island and Providence into a new age of development and prosperity. We need to centralize business to our cities if we want our cities to flourish and if we want our suburban neighborhoods to retain their identies. By creating this new transit network you bring people back to Providence. New grand buildings spring up in the heart of your city. Corporations that were at one time afraid to locate their Headquarters in Providence will see the many benefits that relocating to a vibrant city can bring. Commercial suburban sprawl and office parks are replaced by new homes, with defined community centers. New land for homes and schools and parks. New transit means less auto traffic on our roads, bridges and highways which means that they last longer. New transit makes travel faster, safer, and in the long run... cheaper. New transit reduces pollution and makes all of Rhode Island a better place to visit... and a better place to live, work and play.

--vallon

[glassandsteel]

If the Narragansetts ever build a casino here in RI - chances are it wouldn't be too far from the path of the Casino Line.

Actually, the Narragansetts proposed site is right off of route 2. Foxwoods is on route 2 as well. I doubt that going down that way would be the best path of travel but I figured I'd bring up that they are essentially on the same route. Regardless, I don't think tax dollars would ever go to paying for a route to Connecticut's casinos. You'd be more likely to see the Narragansetts actually build their casino.

[Scott]

Are you crazy? Annex parts of Massachusetts?? Never! Why not the other way around?

Why not Fall River annexing Tiverton? Look at a map, it makes sense.

[Soren]

Re-organizing state lines is a fun fantasy. Imagine if the entire Blackstone River Valley were part of Rhode Island.

Not going to happen though.

That being said, this is fun stuff. I love the proposed commuter rail system.

[DaveRPI]

i dunno about that 295 extension... looks like it would have to right thru Attleboro center and the dense surrounding neighborhoods!

[Cotuit]

Along with the annexation of these towns I propose that a new Interstate Annex be created that would join 295 in N. Attleboro and would swing down through Attleboro, Rehobeth, Swansea and end in Barrington (or perhaps a large interchange w/ 195 further North). This addition would complete an Interstate Ring around Providence and would encourage growth along it's perimeter.

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The highway expansion you propose was defeated by community opposition in the 70s. I-895.

[Cotuit]

Regardless, I don't think tax dollars would ever go to paying for a route to Connecticut's casinos.

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I agree, over my dead body, screw the casinos!

I like most of the other proposals though.

[DaveRPI]

if there are concerns about the housing market bubble bursting, wouldnt a new commuter transit system augment all values of housing along the lines? i think this would keep that bubble from bursting no problem, right!?

any commuter lines would have to be north-south thru RI first because thats where most of the car traffic occurs. if you have ever driven into prov from the west, state highway 195 is nearly empty all the time... no need for rail where people dont even drive in from...

how about an above ground mono-rail type line? providence's L, elevated

you could skirt rt 95 all the way thru the state for space and you wouldnt have to dig tunnels, $$$, but how would that work going across the bay to newport? either way is a large gap and all bridges are really high to accomodate boats

a lot of the old rail lines have been turned into bike paths, like in cranston, east prov, and blackstone valley, so you cant use those without crossing major hurdles... but there absolutely needs to be a line that connects downtown prov to tf green and tf green to newport. what a major drawing point!

[Liamlunchtray]

The highway expansion you propose was defeated by community opposition in the 70s. I-895.

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Ive just been reading through these I-895 links. Interesting stuff! Now all the highways to nowhere start to make sense (Rt 37, the end of 138 leading off Jamestown, the end of 295)

Liam

[Vallon]

Are you crazy? Annex parts of Massachusetts?? Never! Why not the other way around?

Why not Fall River annexing Tiverton? Look at a map, it makes sense.

[Cotuit]

Right now, taxes across the board are higher in Rhode Island than in Mass. so Fall River and the Attleboro's et.al. probably wouldn't want to become part of us until that changed.

There's valid reasons why it would probably benefit both sides to merge, but I don't realistically see it ever happening. I think a lot more could be done within the current borders we have within New England if we all just agreed to work together toward our common best interests more.

Historically though, there has been a lot of movement both ways along the Rhode Island-Massachusetts border. There's nothing stopping us from making more adjustments.

[Vallon]

Re-organizing state lines is a fun fantasy.  Imagine if the entire Blackstone River Valley were part of Rhode Island. 

Not going to happen though.

That being said, this is fun stuff.  I love the proposed commuter rail system.

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I toyed with the idea of adding some Blackstone Valley border communities to RI as part of the annexation - but I didn't want to go over the top . Obviously that would benefit the city of Woonsocket...who's presence is already felt in places like Uxbridge, Blackstone & Bellingham. However I think if that were to happen... a town like Bellingham for example would be cut in half. The upper half remaining Mass territory and the lower part under RI's jurisdiction. This would be a harder sell because of a long existing boundary line between MA, RI & CT. While that's an interesting thought... I don't think it's as vital to RI's growth as the Bristol County Annex is. New commuter rail connections between Providence, Woonsocket and Worcester would help all of those cities and surrounding areas. The bike path is a great thing - but this isn't China. The majority of people here don't use bikes to get from place. Bikepaths encourage travel and recreation... but they don't provide fast links between towns capable of carrying hundreds of people.

- I'm glad you're having fun with it. I definately did... that's the whole point of this site isn't it? Seeing what's going up, and imagining what can go up next?

[Scott]

How do you think Bristol County in Massachusetts got it's name?

Hmm, I didn't know that...

[Vallon]

i dunno about that 295 extension... looks like it would have to right thru Attleboro center and the dense surrounding neighborhoods!

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Well even though I tried to make things as clear and defined as possible - this is all very flexible. The entire point of the post is to get people talking and discussing the possibilities and together finding solutions to problems like that. Obviously you wouldn't want to disturb dense neighborhoods. In evitably when you're building an interstate you're going to have to do some demolition of existing buildings. You hope that when you're doing it you're not going to have to do what New York did with the Bronx... cutting a channel for 95 through the heart of that community... BUT as dense as RI is... it's not as dense as The Bronx. Careful planning and adjustments would have to be taken into consideration for an undertaking like this.

The most important part of the plan is the new commuter rail transit and the acquisition of lands in the Providence metro area.

[Vallon]

Hmm, I didn't know that...

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Originally Bristol was the county seat...in the 1630's I believe. Shortly thereafter it was split between Taunton, Fall River and New Bedford... but retained the name Bristol County.

[Vallon]

The highway expansion you propose was defeated by community opposition in the 70s. I-895.

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Interesting... I didn't realized that was already proposed.

[Cotuit]

The bike path is a great thing - but this isn't China. The majority of people here don't use bikes to get from place. Bikepaths encourage travel and recreation... but they don't provide fast links between towns capable of carrying hundreds of people.

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I don't think it has to be either bikes or rails, we can have both. The frieght line still exists along the Blackstone Bikepath. Portland, OR has bikepaths parallelling many of their light rail lines. There's some tight squeezes in the East Bay and other places where trying to fit modern rail would be a challenge, let alone modern rail and a bikeway, but if there's a will there's a way.

I'd love it if Rhode Island were one of the only areas of the country that was really prepared for the impending oil crisis.

[Vallon]

I agree, over my dead body, screw the casinos! 

I like most of the other proposals though.

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Well... the final destination of such a line is open to debate - but there are existing tracks running through there. Are you opposed to any casino? Or just Anti-Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun? Would you support a connection of a Narragansett casino to downtown Providence? Regardless, I think that creating a commuter rail that brings people from Route 2 to Providence and vice-versa would be a good thing - and help cut down on traffic.

Just a thought.

[Vallon]

I don't think it has to be either bikes or rails, we can have both. The frieght line still exists along the Blackstone Bikepath. Portland, OR has bikepaths parallelling many of their light rail lines. There's some tight squeezes in the East Bay and other places where trying to fit modern rail would be a challenge, let alone modern rail and a bikeway, but if there's a will there's a way.

I wasn't suggesting doing away with the bikepath at all. It's a great resource to the Valley. I just was saying that a commuter rail would be beneficial to the area in ways that the bikepath can not.

I'd love it if Rhode Island were one of the only areas of the country that was really prepared for the impending oil crisis.

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That's part of my reasoning... but pollution and public safety and maintenance costs are all factors in why I think rail makes sense. Less smog, less accidents, and road rage. Less road traffic means less maintenance. Freight lines have largely been replaced in the modern era by tractor-trailer trucks. I think business would be better if truckers had less traffic to deal with on our highways. They would be more likely to make deadlines and less likely to drive pedestrians off the road. That's a hassle and danger that many people dislike. I'm not saying that cars would be off the highways completely... but rail would be an attractive, cheaper, environmentally-friendly and more energy-efficient alternative.

[Vallon]

Right now, taxes across the board are higher in Rhode Island than in Mass. so Fall River and the Attleboro's et.al. probably wouldn't want to become part of us until that changed.

There's valid reasons why it would probably benefit both sides to merge, but I don't realistically see it ever happening. I think a lot more could be done within the current borders we have within New England if we all just agreed to work together toward our common best interests more.

Historically though, there has been a lot of movement both ways along the Rhode Island-Massachusetts border. There's nothing stopping us from making more adjustments.

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Agreed... and well said. I don't think the ideas I presented are realistic by any stretch of the imagination or "Easy". I just am trying to think outside of the box...

But you made good points. Cooperation would be good... but I think New England has thrived on competition between states and cities... There needs to be some incentives for people to come to one part of New England over another - and that often involves a lot of politicking and heated competition.

Look at what happened between Almond/Cianci and Weld/Menino with the new Patriots Stadium. Both sides trashed each other incessantly... So to some degree competition is always going to be there. Cooperation tends to happen only when both sides view that cooperation as profitable.

[Cotuit]

Are you opposed to any casino?

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Yup, pretty much. They are a false economic development engine. All a Narragansett's Casino would do is pull money away from Providence.

[Vallon]

Yup, pretty much. They are a false economic development engine. All a Narragansett's Casino would do is pull money away from Providence.

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I see your point... I might need to rethink that one. Afterall, one of my big creedos over the last week has been centralization... and that includes centrifying business to downtown Providence. So your concern makes me think. I was looking at it purely from the angle of connecting a thriving economic area to another thriving economic area. Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun basically have become mini commercial cities. I would suggest a connection to Hartford... like there used to be (I don't know if one still exists)... but that's a bit further to go.

The main focus of all of this is creating a commuter rail system which links the state with Providence. Any connections to out-of-state cities and attractions is secondary. So - perhaps the "Casino Line" should just be the "West Line".

Good point though - thanx for explaining it.

[Cotuit]

I believe it is possible to create a line to the Cape, I think that would be good for both Providence and the Cape. Trains from Hyannis to New York in the 80s went through Providence I believe.

[Vallon]

I believe it is possible to create a line to the Cape, I think that would be good for both Providence and the Cape. Trains from Hyannis to New York in the 80s went through Providence I believe.

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I modified my original map based on the ideas that people have discussed...

-Casino Line is now "Kent Line"

-Distinctions for Major Stations...

-Larger Labels

-Redrew the path of the 295/95 Interchange... it's more accurate now.

-Extended 295 Addition across Narragansett Bay to Warwick via a New Bridge... which would connect with the existing 295 bypass to form a new Providence Metro Ring.

-New Mt. Hope Bridge to connect Bristol and Portsmouth road and rail.

-Multiple Major Stations off of 295... where commuters can park and ride into the city via rail

-Extended East Shore Line to Cape... which links the Cape w/ Providence as well as Newport via Fall River.