Public Transit in Providence

[Cotuit]

Here's a link to a new transit map I put together for Providence:

Greater Providence Rapid Transit

It's over 2MB so it may take a bit to load. The pink line is MBTA commuter rail (The 'Ts' indicate where it would stop) and RIrail. Which would be a DMU or EMU train that would run rapid transit headways along the same line (10-15 minutes). The light blue lines are trolleys. In some areas they run in the street, some elevated, some in tunnels... The yellow lines are the WAVEbus system in Providence, the current Link Trolleys evelove into this local rapid bus system.

[Recchia]

First, where did you get such a nice aerial?? It's so nice and clear.

I really like the trolleys down Warwick Ave and down Route 2 to the Malls, Garden City, etc. Those have the best potential of reducing 95 traffic and could be integrated with pedestrianization projects all along each road to encourage a new way to shop between these retail centers (i.e. NOT with your car).

The trolleys that will run along Route 6 and 195, do you envision them to be in the median, or along the side, and how do you propose good pedestrian access to them?

Very, very cool, send this to DOT!

[Cotuit]

The trolleys that will run along Route 6 and 195, do you envision them to be in the median, or along the side, and how do you propose good pedestrian access to them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

195 would be median, Route 6 would probably be along the side. They would both be elevated, and elevated walkways would allow access.

The two routes terminating at Route 295 would have transit villages at the termini.

[pdxstreetcar]

Cotuit, what route do you envision as a starter line?

[Cotuit]

Cotuit, what route do you envision as a starter line?

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I think Broadway to Olneyville, and Eddy Street to Thurbers Ave. are probably good places to start. They could be one line via Kennedy Plaza. They serve areas where the population is transit dependent and Eddy serves the hospitals. North Main would be a good starter line, but it depends which way you want to connect to Downcity, anyway is going to involve a degree of engineering which wouldn't be needed for Eddy and Broadway.

Elmwood could be a very popular line as well with service to all the shopping on Route 2, and a park and ride could be built at Route 295 for Northbound commuters. However I would propose that the line be elevated south of Route 10, so that is a large expense for a starter line.

The real starter line I suppose would be BRT through the East Side Tunnel to EP.

[Cotuit]

First, where did you get such  a nice aerial?? It's so nice and clear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I stitched together a bunch of screenshots from Google Maps on the second closest magnification, I could have got away with the 3rd or 4th, but the second level made it really easy to see where I was drawing the lines.

It's a huge file, I can try to send it to anyone who wants to draw their own map.

[Recchia]

So I've been staring at your (Cotuit) transit map all day (thanks a lot I have finals to study for ). What would you think of using the East Junction line in East Providence instead of the line that runs along the Seekonk River? It seems like it runs through a more residential area and could also hook up with the Newport Ave shopping centers and Slater Park. Just a thought...I know RIDOT is tryin to acquire rights to the East JUnction for a potential bike path, but who knows

[Cotuit]

So I've been staring at your (Cotuit) transit map all day (thanks a lot I have finals to study for  ).  What would you think of using the East Junction line in East Providence instead of the line that runs along the Seekonk River?  It seems like it runs through a more residential area and could also hook up with the Newport Ave shopping centers and Slater Park.  Just a thought...I know RIDOT is tryin to acquire rights to the East JUnction for a potential bike path, but who knows

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The East Bay and EP portions are the parts I'm most sketchy on, I never go over there, so don't know what things are like on the groound that well.

I did think of using the East Junction, and I think you could send a line right up to Taunton that way, perhaps even connect with Commuter Rail from Fall River (though I'd have to look at some maps again to see how that would work). Running up the Seekonk River makes a good connection in Pawtucket to McCoy Staudium, which was one of the goals of that line, it could also help development along the EP Waterfront. But the McCoy connection could easily be made with a WAVEbus line in Pawtucket, I was romanticizing taking a trolley to a ball game.

The line down the East Bay will probably never happen. I think the line to Fall River will be BRT, at least at the outset. So the East Bay line could also be a short BRT route collecting local bus routes from the East Bay.

[Recchia]

I heard on the radio this morning that RI just got a 74% increase in federal funding for transit. Anyone else hear this, or read about it, or am I hearin things wrong?

[Frankie811]

I heard on the radio this morning that RI just got a 74% increase in federal funding for transit.

[brown doc]

I am going to be working at Rhode Island Hospital, but have to live in Boston. I was wondering if it is possible to get from the train station (either Amtrak or commuter rail) to Rhode Island Hospital without grabbing a cab. Are there buses, shuttles, etc? Will it take me 15 minutes or a painful hour?

Thanks

browndoc

[Recchia]

The Gold line of the LINK trolley runs by the train station and goes to the Hospitals. You can hop on it right on Gaspee St. in front of the train station. I think it runs every fifteen minutes. Here's a link to the map of it: http://www.ripta.com/schedules/trolleymap.php

Also, you could take the 57 Bus (Smith ST.) or the 50 bus (Douglas Ave) to Kennedy Plaza and then take the 1 bus (Eddy St.) or the 3 bus (Warwick Ave) outbound to the hospitals. The 57 and 50 run down Gaspee St. right in front of the train station.

Here's a link to the RIPTA website: RIPTA online

DON'T use the trip planner, it sucks, just scroll through the top left list under "quick scheduler" and you can find all the schedules. I don't know if you know anything about RIPTA, so in case not, I'll explain a little more....

All the buses inbound go to Kennedy Plaza right in the financial district. From the train station you'd have to go Inbound to Kplaza and then outbound to the hospitals if you take a bus. The trolley you just take "south" from the train station.

If I were you, I would probly take the Gold Line trolley though, or I would walk down Exchange St. to Kennedy Plaza and hop on either the 1 or 3 bus (I walk from Kennedy Plaza to Smith St. everyday (just past the train station) and it barely takes 10 minutes). The gold line only takes like 20 mins to get from the Train station to the hospitals too, so it wont be a bad commute at all. You might have to stand though....

Make sure you check out the kennedy plaza map, it will tell you exactly where you get each bus/trolley: http://www.ripta.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/324

Hope this helps...I ride RIPTA everyday and its cheap and pretty reliable. You can get a monthly pass for only $45. Good luck.

[Recchia]

OH yeah, and since theyre doin construction around the hospitals, fares that run to Eddy St. are 50% off this summer.

[Garris]

All the advice above is spot-on. The only somewhat annoying thing is to watch out for timing. In the later hours a physician could be at RIH, the bus schedules can thin out a bit. Will you also be at the Providence VA, Miriam Hospital, or Memorial Hospital? If so, the mass transit options are more limited to those institutions. And what time is the last train out of Providence?

Do you have a reason for needing to be in Boston? A spouse? Family? A lot of physicians with such situations live in "middle" communities like Sharon, MA or Foxboro, MA. About 30 minutes drive to each city, and both are on the MBTA lines.

Don't hesitate to ask me if you have any questions about RIH, Brown Med, or Lifespan. I'm a physician fellow at RIH.

Take care!

- Garris

[brown doc]

Thanks for all the information. Everyone has been very helpful.

I am only going to be working at RIH, and my spouse is in law school in Cambridge, so we figured that living near South Station or Back Bay Station would be the best compromise. The MTA commuter rail and Amtrak seem to run into Providence often, so the days that I do not have to be in early, I can commute in. Other times, I can drive. I would figure the drive would not be too bad since I would be doing the reverse commute. The part I am the most worried about is getting from the Providence train station to the hospital. I could bike (in the warm months) if that is a possibility. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Thanks

browndoc

[Recchia]

Thanks for all the information.  Everyone has been very helpful.

I am only going to be working at RIH, and my spouse is in law school in Cambridge, so we figured that living near South Station or Back Bay Station would be the best compromise.  The MTA commuter rail and Amtrak seem to run into Providence often, so the days that I do not have to be in early, I can commute in.  Other times, I can drive.  I would figure the drive would not be too bad since I would be doing the reverse commute.  The part I am the most worried about is getting from the Providence train station to the hospital.  I could bike (in the warm months) if that is a possibility.  Do you guys have any suggestions?

Thanks

browndoc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The drive can be a pain in the ass sometimes, especially coming in to Providence via I-95 once you hit Pawtucket, but thats only during rush hour (730-845am). I'm not sure how 93 southbound is LEAVING Boston in the morning, but I imagine it could be just as bad as northbound... Check out Traffic.com before you leave, you can see Providence and Boston congestion maps.

You could definitely bike if you wanted to, and in the winter you could take the trolley. Alot of people bike to and from the Train station everyday, and they have a bunch of bike racks there to lock up (not so sure about the hospital). You'd also have to check and see if the MBTA commuter rail trains let you take bikes on board during rush hours, cause I know that you cant on subways.

If I were you, I'd definitely take the train to Providence and then the trolley down to RIH. DRiving from Boston to Providence everyday would be nightmarish in my opinion, and parking at RIH is a mess right now with all the highway construction goin on down there.

[Frankie811]

One more thing. The buses have bike racks in the front of them.

[brown doc]

Thanks again

I am hoping to commute via public transportation and drive(selectively). Thanks for all the information. It makes my decisions a bit easier.

browndoc

The drive can be a pain in the ass sometimes, especially coming in to Providence via I-95 once you hit Pawtucket, but thats only during rush hour (730-845am).  I'm not sure how 93 southbound is LEAVING Boston in the morning, but I imagine it could be just as bad as northbound... Check out Traffic.com before you leave, you can see Providence and Boston congestion maps.

You could definitely bike if you wanted to, and in the winter you could take the trolley.  Alot of people bike to and from the Train station everyday, and they have a bunch of bike racks there to lock up (not so sure about the hospital). You'd also have to check and see if the MBTA commuter rail trains let you take bikes on board during rush hours, cause I know that you cant on subways.

If I were you, I'd definitely take the train to Providence and then the trolley down to RIH.  DRiving from Boston to Providence everyday would be nightmarish in my opinion, and parking at RIH is a mess right now with all the highway construction goin on down there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Cotuit]

Bikes are not allowed on MBTA commuter rail trains during rush-hour, but that only applies to the peak direction (you would be reverse commuting). I would call the T to confirm, but I think you can take a bike.

You should know that there is a frequent traveller ticket book for Amtrak between Providence and Boston. Many people take Amtrak for the southbound part of there trip.

[Cotuit]

Interesting ProJo article about the state-wide bike system.

Note the part about NIMBYs on Blackstone Blvd. opposing a bike route there. I HATE THEM SO MUCH!

[Recchia]

I had to laugh about the Blackstone Blvd people. Blackstone is the PERFECT route for bicyclists in every way (width, median, etc.) and would be the perfect connector from the Blackstone Bikeway to the East Bay. Who else would be against bikers? They get in the way when you're pullin outta your driveway??

It'll be nice when all the major paths connect up to downcity. Biking is really important in Providence as a transportation form more than recreation. I counted 27 bikes locked up outside the train station the other day, and almost everyday atleast one person has a bike on my bus.

Good to see my DOT finally gettin some good press for once...

[TheBostonian]

I'd love to see what PVD could do with Bus Rapid Transit. You could replace the, say, five busiest conventional bus routes with BRT. Any major investment in infrastructure could be executed with future conversion to rail transit in mind.

And speaking of New England regional public transit:

I'm curious what the proposed North-South Rail Link means to people outside Boston. If this is new to you, it is a plan to connect North and South station commuter rail lines in Boston with a 4-track tunnel along the general route of the central artery tunnel, with a new central station at Aquarium on the Blue Line. It would connect every commuter rail line to every subway line and replace north routes and south routes with through-routes, such as Plymouth to Fitchburg and Rockport to Fall River, and allow for one seat Amtrak rides from Washington to Portland, Maine.

Does it seem like a project with serious regional benefits to you folks in PVD?

[Recchia]

I'd say it'd definitely help us out if we were ever going points north of Boston. Personally, I wouldn't care because I usually go to Boston and thats it ( and I usually get off at Back Bay anyway). Plus, you won't have to do so many transfers on the subways to get to North Station and beyond. Right now only the red line goes to South Station right?

It'll be nice for when I go to Celtics games, no more gettin off the commuter rail at Back Bay and onto the orange line to get to North Station.

[orulz]

I consider the gap between North Station and South Station to be a gaping hole in the Northeast Corridor. The North/South Rail Link will happen someday, it's just a matter of when. My guess? When the memory of the billions of dollars spent (wasted?) on the Big Dig fades.

The idea is to build it between the slurry walls of the Big Dig, but underneath the freeway lanes. Those slurry walls go WAY down, all the way to the bedrock, so there's certainly enough space both vertically and horizontally for trains and catenary lines to fit.

I'm not sure how long construction would take, or to what degree it would disrupt traffic on I-93. It would have been a lot easier to do it at the same time as the big dig (dig the tunnel deeper and build the highway on a deck over the tracks) but at this point, the tunnels would probably be dug with a boring machine so any disruptions would probably be minimal. The entry and exit grades would be in the range of 3%, and diesel would be prohibited, so no freight would be allowed.

At the moment, all dual-mode locomotives (capable of running on electric and diesel power) use third rail, but the rail link would use catenary so one of two things would have to happen: Either MBTA would electrify every line that they want to run through trains on, or a dual-mode locomotive with a pantograph would have to be designed. Full electrification would be great, but very expensive. Depending on how far off on the horizon the rail link is, it might actually happen. But designing a dual-mode locomotive with a pantograph wouldn't be a big deal at all. (They exist in other countries.)

[Cotuit]

I would LOVE to be able to take Amtrak to Portland (or Portsmouth, or OOB...). As is it is totally impractical. I don't want to take Amtrak from Providence, get on the Orange Line at Back Bay, then wait for a train at North Station, I can drive to Maine way faster and with less hassle than that. If it were a one seat ride though, I'd be heading up there all the time.

It would also help for visiting the 'in-laws' in Lynn. Even if commuter rail from Providence didn't go straight through to Lynn (which I doubt it would), I would still be able to change trains in one station. It would be good for getting the 'in-laws' down here for a visit. They're too old to be switching trains and taking subways all over and trying to make connections in Boston. One transfer within the same station they could handle.