Southeast Suburban Density

[rocket9561]

I don't know how you can ignore how bad things are rocket. I go insane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are things that much worse in Nashville than the rest of the country? They can't change overnight and it isn't a Nashville attitue it is an American attitude, a human attitude. Until the nation takes a drastic change in the way we think out our energy and resources then most developments are going to follow a similar track. Even Portland Oregon isn't a good model. It's ok for an American city but the majority of people still don't do their part to stop sprawl. I don't ignore how bad things are I just use more of a realist approach. You get out and do what you can but realize that things don't happen overnight and that probably 85% of this country doesn't think about the issues in whole very much at all. Knowing that, it's amazing that Nashville has such a comprehensive plan for the future and a mayor who really supports these kind of projects and ideas. Not to mention the newspaper has published the Plan of Nashville in a sequence of articles to educate our local population on these ideas. There are good things happening..

I would imagine the subdivision you are talking about DT is probably a phase planned earlier for an exisiting development. The majority of the Developments are planned much more carefully than they used to be around this area and you have to admit that.

[BrandonTO416]

Portland and Nashville are very, very different and yes its worse here then in many other regions. I used to not think so, but after taking a more objective look and more travelling, I feel it is.

[DallasTexan]

I would imagine the subdivision you are talking about DT is probably a phase planned earlier for an exisiting development.  The majority of the Developments are planned much more carefully than they used to be around this area and you have to admit that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it just shocked me because I didn't expect to see something like that so close to the center city.

Maybe Dave knows what it is?

[rocket9561]

Portland and Nashville are very, very different and yes its worse here then in many other regions. I used to not think so, but after taking a more objective look and more travelling, I feel it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I honestly don't think that Nashville's sprawl is markedly worse than Atlanta, Charlotte, or Jacksonville which are the most comparable cities to Nashville. There is a definite difference with Portland but in the big picture, even Portland isn't doing enough.

[bobliocatt]

^I've never been to Nashville other than driving through it along I-24, but I can assure you the sprawl here in any Florida city, including Jax, is a lot denser than what you would find in Atlanta and Charlotte. As I said earlier, Florida's suburban development tends to be a bit denser than most Southern areas, because the land costs too much. Here developers, even single family home developers, tend to try to cram as much on their property as possible.

I'm not claiming that this place is the denset out there, but I was really shocked to see the rural-like density levels of Atlanta's and Charlotte's suburbs over the past couple of years. So if Nashville's sprawl is comparable to Atlanta's or Charlotte's, I'd say its worse off, than Jax's.

[BrandonTO416]

Nashville's sprawl isn't particularly worse then Atlanta and Charlotte, no. I will agree with that. But who cares about Atlanta and Charlotte? Says nothing about the quality of Nashville to compare it to those cities in my opinion.

[DallasTexan]

Well, now that I live in an urban enviroment, I don't really care about sprawl since I rarely leave the city.

Obviously, I abhor it, but it really has no bearing in my everyday life now. Instead of just berating it, I now work to promote the city as a better alternative than reckless suburban development. I'd feel the same way if I lived in downtown Nashville.

As for suburban attitudes -- would you really want a lot of those people living in the city anyway? We can't just stop suburban sprawl dead in its tracks -- the first thing we urbanites must do is change preconceived notions about the city, smart growth, and urban life in general and then work from there.

[brewerw]

I dont se that much wrong with living in the burbs. I mean, specially as a kid, i love goin out in the yard. Its fun. Id also like to live in a suburban enviroment. I also think the spraw is from people who have mainly lived in downtown enviroments. This is the view of the south from people moving in, it is not viewed as a urban heaven.

[DallasTexan]

I don't mind suburbs at all as long as they are planned well... I wouldn't mind living in an old streetcar suburb at all.

[rocket9561]

It is funny that many people say that it is the "South" that is sprawly, well, geographically, yes...but it is the people moving here from the North and cities like Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, etc that want the big homes with big yards and big SUVs...

[DallasTexan]

Pfft, they're just trying to fit in with the local culture

But seriously - Northern transplants are also behind the reason why the South is experiencing such a boom in inner city construction as well. Where would the south be without us?

[monsoon]

You can point a camera at any of the places you mention and find good and bad development. I've lived in S. Fla, and there is certainly sprawl that is just as bad as anywhere else. Charlotte has bad sprawl mostly from the 80s & 90s, and these days really good development.

The question that should be asked is, what are the cities doing to change it? Everyone recognizes these days how bad development in the long run is not good for the liveability of an area. So for the areas listed above, you have to ask, what is being done? Opinions are nice but worthless, aerials of specific neighborhoods do not come close to telling the picture of what is really going on, nor do photos of areas built 40-50 or more ago.

What you really need to do to rate an area is ask these questions:

• Does the region have a plan for dealing with sprawl?

• Is the area building mass transit and TOD to go with it?

• Do the citizens support Mass Transit?

• Are there land use policies in place that prevent Cul de Sac development, require side walks, allow mixed use development?

• Is the population of the core county growing faster than the metro. Is it losing population?

• What percentage of the city use mass transit?

• How much high density (non detached housing) is being built?

I think a complete examination of these questions will give a much better idea of where sprawl is now occuring and where it isn't.

[BrandonTO416]

It is funny that many people say that it is the "South" that is sprawly, well, geographically, yes...but it is the people moving here from the North and cities like Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, etc that want the big homes with big yards and big SUVs...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So basically we get all the north's crap. Great.

[JunktionFET]

The argument about people from the northeast wanting a big yard and house when they move to the south because they were in urban heaven back home is a bit misinformed.

Have any of you ever been to the northeast? Sure there's a whole line of absolutely fantastic cities, chock full of life, density, history, diversity, etc... But do you know what surrounds those fabulous cities? Tens of thousands of square miles of sprawl. Ugly nasty sprawl. It isn't like everyone that moves to the south once lived on the 10th floor of an old apartment in the middle of Brooklyn.

Do northeastern cities generally have much denser inner neighborhoods? Certainly! They were big cities long before 1/3 acre lots became the thing to have. Many southern cities have much smaller high density neighborhoods like that because they have done most of their growth during more contemporary times.

Do you usually have to travel farther out of town to reach the really ugly modern sprawl? Yes... but only because so much infill was done in the past.