Nashville or Memphis

[GaTechGuy]

As to New Orleans, a storm may cause some flooding, but the whole city would not be washed away.  I think all that New Orleans disaster talk is highly exagerrated.  It has been there for 300 years and will probably still be there in 300 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't saying it'll be washed away but when ever it does get flooded by a large hurricane there will be a lot of damage and probably quite a few deaths. I'm sure people will come back and fix things up again, but it will hurt its growth and I think a lot of people will probably leave the city after that.

Yes, its been there for 300 years but part of the problem with why the city is in so much danger is because all the draining of the swamps, building of canals and a few other factors are causing the Mississippi river delta to disappear (it's being eroded by the sea). That is what used to protect the city from the storm surge of a hurricane. There used to be 50 miles of Delta between the city and the ocean...thats down to about 20 miles now.

It's kind of ironic and sad that the city's growth will probably be its undoing in the end.

[RiversideGator]

Well, the building of the levees caused the River to cease to flood the delta area and therefore cease to renourish the swamplands. These are shrinking - this is true. I think this is a far worse calamity than the Everglades, by the way, although the Glades gets all the press. The feds need to come in and figure out a solution. Perhaps periodic controlled flooding of the area south of New Orleans. We will see. There are certainly problems ahead, but I think the people there and in DC will come up with solutions which will save the city and state.

[mandrws1]

I would hardly say "Nashville easily".  U of M football outdraws Vandy in attendance.  In terms of basketball, the U of M has been in the top ten in NCAA Div. 1 in attendance for years--with the exception of this year when they tanked. 

Why do you claim Nashville's symphony is superior?  It might be, I just don't know the basis for the claim.  If it's the new hall, Memphis opened a new one last year, and while Nashville's might welll be nicer, I don't think that makes a better symphony.  I do know that the Memphis symphony, ballet, and opera are the oldest in the state.

Memphis' condos are all over downtown.

Memphis' new highrises:  28 story Vue apts u/c; 25 story One Beale Place condos proposed; Riverside Place condos--twin 16 story towers proposed.  In addition, the number of highrise downtown Memphis buildings undergoing conversion to condos from either vacant or apartments is staggering.

I think downtown Nashville is finally beginning to take off residential-wise, but I would place it about where Memphis was in 1990, when HarborTown was built, when SouthBluffs was built, and when older buildings started residential conversion.

Office buildings, Overton Park, restaurants, trendy coffe, book and record stores and boutiques have been all over Midtown Memphis for decades--all in an area about 3 or 4 times the size of Nashville's West End.

Overall, I think sometimes that people in Nashville fail to realize that Nashville is developing things that Memphis has had for years--particularly in the arts and the "trendiness" of places like Midtown Memphis and downtown Memphis.

One of the South's rap centers, and certainly Tennessee's film center for location shoots.  Two Memphis films swept Sundance this year.

The civil rights movement didn't begin in Nashville.  You can keep Frist.

Check out these pics of downtown Memphis:

Downtown Memphis' pre-1930's stuff--pt. 1:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...?threadid=78457

Downtown Memphis' pre-1930's stuff--pt.2:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread...?threadid=78542

Memphis' Downtown ballpark neighborhood:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...?threadid=78213

South Main area:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...?threadid=78086

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for posting that info. PHofKS really doesn't have a clue as to how cultured Memphis is. Nashville is cool, but Memphis has already done everything that they are just now doing.

[GaTechGuy]

People would you just let this thing die in peace.

[samovereasy]

Memphis has an identity as a place which Nashville will never have.

Memphis definitely wins this one 100 to 1.

[satalac]

Memphis has an identity as a place which Nashville will never have.

Memphis definitely wins this one 100 to 1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they both have their own identity. i wish the memphians (that's the right way to say it right?) and the nashvillians could just accept each other's city. sure, some good natured pride is fun, but let's not knock anyone's city.

[cdarr]

Memphis is doin pretty well with all that shipping. Is it still the case that EVERY FedEx package goes through memphis?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish I'd joined this thread earlier. Computer's been out.

It is not true about every FedEx package going through Memphis. We have hubs in Indy, Ft. Worth, Oakland and Newark. If it's a shorter path through one of those hubs the package probably goes that way, not through MEM.

I have lived in both cities - Memphis from age 2 to 13, Nashville from 13 to 18, and Memphis again from 18 to 34 (present). Obviously haven't lived in Nashville for a while but I go back there at least once a year. If this forum is really about which city has more "potential" I would vote Memphis because it has more room for progress. Nashville, in my opinion, has been fully realizing its potential since the mid to late 1990's. It was during that time that Nashville really peaked (metro population exceeded Memphis, NFL, Batman Building, Opry Mills, etc.). I think the key to it all has been education...Nashville is filled with and surrounded by colleges and universities, flooding the area with young professionals. This is a tremendous asset to have in a knowledge-based economy.

Memphis has more potential than Nashville the way China has more potential right now than, say, Japan. Memphis has an inner-city population that is over 60% black, and most of it working in low-pay service sector jobs. It is amazing that Memphis is economically as close to Nashville as it is, considering how much of Memphis' population contributes little if any real economic value. If, somehow, this large black urban underclass can be inspired to become a black urban middle class, Memphis can be every bit as successful as Nashville.

Some folks have turned this into a "which city is better" thread which is impossible to answer fairly. The conventional wisdom seems to indicate Nashville is better since our culture places more value on shiny new skyscrapers, pro sports, clean and safe (but sterile) suburbs, glitzy malls and rapid population growth. But for those of us that cherish that historic, "large old city" feeling you get standing at Union and Second, the hipness of Beale, the neighborhood pride of Midtown or even Orange Mound, or a night sky filled with jets coming from and going to just about everywhere...I think Memphis is vastly underrated and deserves a better reputation among outsiders and especially its own citizens.

[sleepy]

Memphis has more potential than Nashville the way China has more potential right now than, say, Japan.

[mandrws1]

I wish I'd joined this thread earlier.  Computer's been out.

It is not true about every FedEx package going through Memphis.  We have hubs in Indy, Ft. Worth, Oakland and Newark.  If it's a shorter path through one of those hubs the package probably goes that way, not through MEM.

I have lived in both cities - Memphis from age 2 to 13, Nashville from 13 to 18, and Memphis again from 18 to 34 (present).  Obviously haven't lived in Nashville for a while but I go back there at least once a year.  If this forum is really about which city has more "potential" I would vote Memphis because it has more room for progress.  Nashville, in my opinion, has been fully realizing its potential since the mid to late 1990's.  It was during that time that Nashville really peaked (metro population exceeded Memphis, NFL, Batman Building, Opry Mills, etc.).  I think the key to it all has been education...Nashville is filled with and surrounded by colleges and universities, flooding the area with young professionals.  This is a tremendous asset to have in a knowledge-based economy. 

Memphis has more potential than Nashville the way China has more potential right now than, say, Japan.  Memphis has an inner-city population that is over 60% black, and most of it working in low-pay service sector jobs.  It is amazing that Memphis is economically as close to Nashville as it is, considering how much of Memphis' population contributes little if any real economic value.  If, somehow, this large black urban underclass can be inspired to become a black urban middle class, Memphis can be every bit as successful as Nashville.

Some folks have turned this into a "which city is better" thread which is impossible to answer fairly.  The conventional wisdom seems to indicate Nashville is better since our culture places more value on shiny new skyscrapers, pro sports, clean and safe (but sterile) suburbs, glitzy malls and rapid population growth.  But for those of us that cherish that historic, "large old city" feeling you get standing at Union and Second, the hipness of Beale, the neighborhood pride of Midtown or even Orange Mound, or a night sky filled with jets coming from and going to just about everywhere...I think Memphis is vastly underrated and deserves a better reputation among outsiders and especially its own citizens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Memphis is 60% African-American, and most of "us" don't work in low paying jobs. Please don't believe the hype. Yes Memphis has an unemployment problem, but the stereotypes need to stop. I have read many posts that seem to suggest that if Memphis didn't have so many black citizens, that the city would be better off. I beg to differ. Although race plays a factor in Memphis sometimes, black & white people are getting along better and better in "the city of good abode." Many Memphians, myself included, choose to live in older, more cultured neighborhoods. My neighborhood in Frayser is absolutely wonderful. I love the fact that out of 10 families in my cove, 5 are black and 5 are white. Its things like this that make Memphis so great. As sleepy stated, Memphis always gets high rankings on the Essence list for cities where young African-American professionals thrive.

[cdarr]

I hardly think Memphis is on the level of China.  For example--and I no longer have the source--wages per comparable jobs in Memphis were the highest in the state.  Of course, the problem with Memphis is that it has an unemployment rate of 5.8% v. 3. something % in Nashville.

And I wouldn't overstate the "underclass" thing.  Black household income in Memphis is only slightly lower than the national median and ahead of most cities in the Midwest--even Minneapolis--with the exception of Chicago and Detroit, and ahead of many southern cities.

And Memphis has a pretty substantial black middle class.  A recent article in the CA mentioned the fact that blacks have moved to suburban Shelby County at double the rate of whites.  And you're probably aware of the fact that Black Enterprise mag has always listed Memphis in the top ten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The China comparison wasn't meant to be taken literally. I was referring to the fact that it consists of a large population that has much room to grow economically.

[cdarr]

Memphis is 60% African-American, and most of "us" don't work in low paying jobs.  Please don't believe the hype.  Yes Memphis has an unemployment problem, but the stereotypes need to stop.  I have read many posts that seem to suggest that if Memphis didn't have so many black citizens, that the city would be better off.  I beg to differ.  Although race plays a factor in Memphis sometimes, black & white people are getting along better and better in "the city of good abode."  Many Memphians, myself included, choose to live in older, more cultured neighborhoods.  My neighborhood in Frayser is absolutely wonderful.  I love the fact that out of 10 families in my cove, 5 are black and 5 are white.  Its things like this that make Memphis so great.  As sleepy stated, Memphis always gets high rankings on the Essence list for cities where young African-American professionals thrive. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid my comments are based on more than stereotypes. Please see these stats:

Memphis/Shelby: http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/incomeOverv...?locIndex=12664

Nashville/Davidson: http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/incomeOverv...?locIndex=12382

With per-capita incomes of $29,000, whites in Memphis are doing far better than the national and state averages, and even slightly better than their counterparts in Nashville. Meanwhile, African-Americans in Memphis have per-capita income of $13,000, worse than the state/national averages and worse than Nashville. The variance between white and black incomes is higher in Memphis ($16,000) than in Nashville ($13,000), and of course Memphis has a much larger black population. Multiply these two factors together and it explains why per capita income for Memphis lags Nashville by $2,200.

I think we have one of the largest black middle classes in the country, and get rated high for young black professions, largely because we have a large black population. The presence of two companies (FedEx and First Tennessee) that are ranked very high on diversity also helps in those rankings.

I refuse to believe that Memphis would be better off with fewer black citizens. I would rather believe that Memphis would be better off if its black citizens were better off. I, too, live within the 240 loop and am encouraged by many clean, safe neighborhoods that have a healthy mix of races. I also agree with you that interpersonal race relations here (as opposed to "political" race relations) are better than the general perception. Unfortunately, there are still far too many impoverished black neighboorhoods in a city where white poverty seems to be almost non-existent. We need to get firing on all cylinders, not just half.

[sleepy]

The census lists median household income:

Davidson County white:

43,589

Shelby County white:

51,551

Davidson County black:

29,476

Shelby County black:

28,354

As most people realize, the biggest problem in Memphis is the economic disparity between the races. But to characterize Memphis as some underclass city is in fact to engage in stereotyping.

[Clobber]

maybe they won't screw them up like 40 and 55 too, but I wouldn't hold my breath.  While they are getting a little better, both interstates still have single lane low speed choke points that all traffic must pass through in order to continue through the city.  Sure, taking an offramp to switch to a different highway is one thing, but to do so to stay on the same damn highway is insane (same thing with drainage..heavy rains will flood and block a part of 55..WTF is with that?).  Truckers love to hate it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of the few thing about the city I think you right about. At least when it comes to the 55-Crump intersection, it would make far more sense for 55 to be continuous, and for there to be an offramp to get onto Crump, instead of having to get on an offramp to stay on 55. I hear they are thinking of changing that intersection so you don't have to get on a ramp to stay on the interstate. That would make more sense. But that might be a few years off, since there are other priorities.

BTW, you seem to be a bitter, bitter person. That's unfortunate. Memphis is such a awesome place that is underappreciated by its own residents. I'd move back home in a second if I could. And maybe I can. Just need to look for the right time in my life to do so... The changes have been so impressive everytime I've visited my family and friends.

[cdarr]

As most people realize, the biggest problem in Memphis is the economic disparity between the races.  But to characterize Memphis as some underclass city is in fact to engage in stereotyping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Every city has an underclass....the statistics simply bear out that Memphis has a larger one than Nashville. And who has characterized the whole of Memphis as an "underclass city"?

[stuckinmfs]

Population exodus?  2000 census put Shelby County at 897,000 and Davidson at 569,000.  2004 estimates put Shelby County at 908,000 and Davidson at 572,000. 

As far as crime goes.  Here are 2002 crime rate rankings:

http://www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html

40 dallas

41 nashville

42 memphis

43 st. louis

44 baltimore

45 las vegas

46 miami

47 detroit

48 atlanta

Shelby County growth != Memphis growth. Being in the BOTTOM nine cities in that ranking is nothing for either Nashville or Memphis to be proud of.

[stuckinmfs]

Every city has an underclass....the statistics simply bear out that Memphis has a larger one than Nashville.  And who has characterized the whole of Memphis as an "underclass city"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

spend a day driving all over the city and that's the impression you will get.

remember, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. averaging in people from the entire county is one way to skew reality.

[stuckinmfs]

Memphis has "only" 40 and 55 right now (which has made Memphis the #3 trucking corridor in the nation), but 69 and 22 are on the way, and a controversial fifth (Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta via US72) has been discussed/planned/in the works.  Logistics, transportation, and general connections-wise, (airports, highways, rail service, cargo service, river transportation, light rail, etc) I think Memphis has a ton of potential.  I'd love to see how it compares to Nashville.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe they won't screw them up like 40 and 55 too, but I wouldn't hold my breath. While they are getting a little better, both interstates still have single lane low speed choke points that all traffic must pass through in order to continue through the city. Sure, taking an offramp to switch to a different highway is one thing, but to do so to stay on the same damn highway is insane (same thing with drainage..heavy rains will flood and block a part of 55..WTF is with that?). Truckers love to hate it.

[sleepy]

spend a day driving all over the city and that's the impression you will get.

remember, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.  averaging in people from the entire county is one way to skew reality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That skews it for any geographical area, yet it's a basis for comparison.

Just average in the poor people then and spend a day driving "all over the city"--just don't go east of Highland Avenue, or downtown or Midtown. That'll skew it more to your liking.

[stuckinmfs]

there is only a narrow strip of Midtown that is decent. Go a couple blocks north or south and it runs down quickly. same thing goes for downtown if you get outside of Belz-Turley-land. Highland isn't a good dividing line anymore either. the area south of Park up to maybe Cherry is getting crappier and crappier each year..moving a little further east all the time. Sadly, I have ex-relatives who still live in that area and remember when it was a nice part of town.

[stuckinmfs]

Nah, I get cranky when I'm on the wrong side of the Mississippi River. After a few years, it just builds up.

Given the history, I can see why the 40/240 exchanges are screwed up (and I would shake my head every time I'd see those unused bridges crossing 240 to just disappear into the weeds). The changes to the west exchange should improve things a little, but looks like it will not really fix it. TDOT had a chance to fix the east exchange for good, but they failed. No multi-lane, normal speed path for continuing on 40. It's still a single lane that makes you slow down. The west 55 exchange seems to be an afterthought. I've never heard a coherent explanation about the off ramp that stops in midair near the 'new' bridge.

[Clobber]

Nah, I get cranky when I'm on the wrong side of the Mississippi River.  After a few years, it just builds up.

Given the history, I can see why the 40/240 exchanges are screwed up (and I would shake my head every time I'd see those unused bridges crossing 240 to just disappear into the weeds).  The changes to the west exchange should improve things a little, but looks like it will not really fix it.  TDOT had a chance to fix the east exchange for good, but they failed.  No multi-lane, normal speed path for continuing on 40.  It's still a single lane that makes you slow down.  The west 55 exchange seems to be an afterthought.  I've never heard a coherent explanation about the off ramp that stops in midair near the 'new' bridge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That offramp was built to connect with the proposed 40 through Overton Park. Near the western 40/240 interchange you could see another vestige of the defunct 40 route. When Overton Park won out, they couldn't complete it, but those ramps had already been built/erected.

[cdarr]

I've never heard a coherent explanation about the off ramp that stops in midair near the 'new' bridge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you talking about the one over the Pyramid parking lot? Part of the city's original expressway plan, also not built, was a freeway running along the riverfront. It would have carried I-55 past the Crump Blvd exit, extending it along Riverside Drive to an I-40 interchange, then across to Mud Island and connecting with the I-240 offshoot that goes to Hwy 51 (Thomas Street). The midair ramp was supposed to take southbound traffic from this unbuilt freeway and put it onto the DeSoto bridge.

This also explains why I-55 just stops at Crump and make you use an offramp to get on the Memphis-Arkansas bridge. They intended that expressway to keep going.

[sleepy]

there is only a narrow strip of Midtown that is decent.  Go a couple blocks north or south and it runs down quickly.  same thing goes for downtown if you get outside of Belz-Turley-land.  Highland isn't a good dividing line anymore either.  the area south of Park up to maybe Cherry is getting crappier and crappier each year..moving a little further east all the time.  Sadly, I have ex-relatives who still live in that area and remember when it was a nice part of town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Midtown, a couple blocks north and south "and it runs down quickly"?

How about the three miles north or south up to North Parkway and down to Central?

Guess you missed out on North Parkway, Vollentine-Evergreen, Evergreen, Central Gardens, and Cooper-Young.

Maybe you ought to get a car, get off MATA routes, and take a look around.

[stuckinmfs]

I do have a car and like I said, you don't have to deviate very much from any of those streets to find yourself in a dump. My ex had the same set of blinders that you have on when she tried to get us to move to midtown. Been there, done that, don't want the t-shirt.

I'm also glad that someone has the time to go through the public records to keep tabs on our oh so efficient government.

http://www.memphiswatchdog.org/

http://www.insidememphis.info/

[TennBear]

I find this interesting. The question was: Which has the most potential? The question was not which do you like best, which is growing the fastest, which will achieve it's full potential. I thought that there was a lot home standing and that is to be expected. I voted that Memphis has the most potential. I am not certain that it will ever live up to that potential. Memphis is the third largest Railroad center in the US, Second largest inland port in the US, Largest airport cargo distribution center in the World, 25th Largest Passenger Airport in the US, Home to 4 Interstates and growing to 7 at some point in the future. It has the potential to be the countries largest multi-model distribution center. It has a major medical center with one of the world's best know research hospitals. It is the second largest ortopedic production and supply center. Has the foundation of being a major biomedical center. If you look at Nashville, it has been and may continue to perform better than Memphis. It has some built in advantages, but it's overall potential is less.