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Eastland Mall Redevelopment


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10 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I dont understand why the city is spending yet more money on a study on the Eastland site. I think they should advertise nationwide through commercial brokers for proposals and make a decision from there.  The best use is some multi family some retail, maybe some office space but mainly as retail and residential. I just dont understand study after study on this site. 

 

It's absolute insanity.  One of the few times I agree with all the tea party rage comments on the Observer.  I'm looking forward to the next headline - "City of Charlotte approves $750,000 archaeological study to determine if there used to be a mall on the eastland lot".

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13 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I dont understand why the city is spending yet more money on a study on the Eastland site. I think they should advertise nationwide through commercial brokers for proposals and make a decision from there.  The best use is some multi family some retail, maybe some office space but mainly as retail and residential. I just dont understand study after study on this site. 

 

I have spoke to some of the community stakeholders here in passing and my impression is they are looking for, if not demanding, some sort of 'transformational' silver bullet project for the neighborhood.  They are pretty vocal and active so I think these studies are being done in part to appease them.  

Personally I think the city should go with a 'lighter, quicker, cheaper' process here.  Define a city grid and commit to it.  Then parcel out the property based on that.  But that wouldn't be 'transformational' for those who already live there.  It would just be smart urban planning...

 

 

 

 

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Perhaps they are studying what type of habitats to include in the zoo?  But seriously, couldn't agree more and (despite some neighborhood issues) I'm astounded that no developer wants a shot at this.  The distance to PM and Uptown is not that significant and I think the parcel could be something special (on the off chance it's not a zoo...okay, last time with that fantasy).

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19 minutes ago, JBS said:

Perhaps they are studying what type of habitats to include in the zoo?  But seriously, couldn't agree more and (despite some neighborhood issues) I'm astounded that no developer wants a shot at this.  The distance to PM and Uptown is not that significant and I think the parcel could be something special (on the off chance it's not a zoo...okay, last time with that fantasy).

I was unable to find the RFP but I wonder if there are some restrictions or requirements that make the project unappealing?  

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17 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

I was unable to find the RFP but I wonder if there are some restrictions or requirements that make the project unappealing?  

The demographics and trajectory of east Charlotte has been the primary sticking point.

However, recent events are piling on to make the parcel much less attractive:

  • The orange man's immigration policies
  • Developers are currently focused on the west (e.g. the River District and the West End) and along the BLE
  • The orange man has proposed eliminating federal tax credits for low income housing (and Ben Carson certainly isn't going to fight to keep them)

In a nutshell the customer base around Eastland is both unattractive and unstable for just about every for-profit land use.

Post CJD paternalism EDIT: my apologies for introducing gratuitous political BS into this post. While the shade of the president is irrelevant to a discussion of eastland his policies are not. 

Edited by kermit
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12 minutes ago, kermit said:

The demographics and trajectory of east Charlotte has been the primary sticking point.

However, recent events are piling on to make the parcel much less attractive:

  • The orange man's immigration policies
  • Developers are currently focused on the west (e.g. the River District and the West End) and along the BLE
  • The orange man has proposed eliminating federal tax credits for low income housing (and Ben Carson certainly isn't going to fight to keep them)

In a nutshell the customer base around Eastland is both unattractive and unstable for just about every for-profit land use.

I know you're a smart and well read person but figured I'd mention how foolish you look when you use 'the orange man' to describe the POTUS.  It's almost comical double standard that exists with some in regards to using derogatory towards the POTUS today vs. just 1 term ago.

I am not saying you don't have a right to mock Trump and hell there is a lot a material but using terms like arrogant or incompetent would be much more in line with the level of thinker I think you are or that I think you want to be viewed as.  That said, if you just want to be the lefts version of the low brow cretins who used similar insults rather than articulated criticisms for Obama...by all means go ahead.  

The reason I say this is you seem to want to carry yourself as someone who is elevated but when you talk like this you're not and you're just as bad as those who you mock.  The primary difference is most won't say anything for fear that calling out your actions would be equated to support of Trump.  Whereas I don't see it that way and have no problem calling it out.  

All that said, thanks for confirming the developers perspective.  

 

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^If they could pull it off, I think the Zoo is about the most practical solution to the mall debacle at this point but who am I but a lowly Mecklenburg Tax Payer.

 

btw...I like Bill Maher's interpretation of the POTUS......."Child-in-Chief":rofl:

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Lets get back on topic here. This has nothing to do with the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT or the President. Market forces will ultimately decide what is there or a massive massive public incentive will help what would not be market ready there. How about a no tax zone business incubator? Make it satellite of the foreign trade zone already in Charlotte too. Are  jobs the goal or a upscale Wegmans grocery store or Nordstrom? But in terms of being an upscale development with high end stores it will not happen but that is okay. I predict right now it will be vacant 5 years from now if the city does not get a grip on reality. Another idea is a vocational job training center to further help my proposed business incubator. 

Meanwhile in the area the old Varnadore building on Independence maybe coming back to life. http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/03/28/mixed-use-redevelopment-project-planned-for.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=scroll&ed=2017-03-28&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1490729411&j=77770831

Edited by KJHburg
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4 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

I have spoke to some of the community stakeholders here in passing and my impression is they are looking for, if not demanding, some sort of 'transformational' silver bullet project for the neighborhood.  They are pretty vocal and active so I think these studies are being done in part to appease them.  

Personally I think the city should go with a 'lighter, quicker, cheaper' process here.  Define a city grid and commit to it.  Then parcel out the property based on that.  But that wouldn't be 'transformational' for those who already live there.  It would just be smart urban planning...

 

 

 

 

I agree. The one and only thing I want out of redeveloping Eastland is retail facing Central. That was honestly the one thing about the movie studio proposal I liked ( and maybe the river that would have bisected the development). Maybe another idea is to make this an international business district. Maybe seek out companies in South America and Asia that want to enter the U.S. market.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/21/2017 at 2:01 PM, Zando-Zan said:

The article from 2012 announcing the deal where the City acquired the Eastland property is 404. How much did the city pay for Eastland? How much have we dumped into the demolition? Just trying to understand how much the city has invested into this 90 acres.

Wikipedia says $13.2 million

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  • 1 month later...

Story in Business Journal about Eastland site. 2 main takeaways I saw including this first sentence "A revamped approach to overhauling the former Eastland Mall site emphasizes grounded pragmatism over grand projections."   and this sentence "We had 35 different folks (from development companies), eight different meetings over the course of two days talking to us about their perceptions and their thoughts and ideas and observations from the real estate community in Charlotte, but also some outside of Charlotte."    I have said all along this grandiose schemes of movie studios, high end retail, Whole Foods etc are pie in the sky. This site could be a town center for the east side but it must reflect the realities of the neighborhoods around it and not try to be some citywide destination point.  How about a mixed income development and all housing types SF, Townhomes, apartments, age restricted units etc for sale and for rent. Here is the article subscriber only http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/05/30/consultants-weigh-in-on-rebuilding-charlotte-mall.html?ana=e_mc_prem&s=scroll&ed=2017-05-30&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1496148519&j=78277661   

Edited by KJHburg
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23 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Lighter, quicker, cheaper.  

They should just build two roads that intersect in the center of the parcel.  Where they intersect build a town square.  Then lot out the main roads Holland Land Company style.  

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  • 1 month later...

Well, there is definitely something going on there as I drove past the site today. (on the Albemarle Rd side)  I spotted a crane and what appears to be a 3 or 4 story framed building more towards the back of the property. There were too many trees to see the entire project.

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50 minutes ago, UPNoDa said:

Well, there is definitely something going on there as I drove past the site today. (on the Albemarle Rd side)  I spotted a crane and what appears to be a 3 or 4 story framed building more towards the back of the property. There were too many trees to see the entire project.

That must be the school being built for nothing else has been announced yet. 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
On 10/12/2017 at 10:38 PM, southslider said:

^Irony-- build a school for language immersion on the corner of Eastland farthest from multicultural Central Avenue.

It might be easier to sell the remaining portion of the site if the land is right up against Central, rather than being tucked away in a corner. I’m still holding out on mixed-use development with retail facing Central, especially if the Gold Line makes it out that far. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here are the three proposals the city is currently looking at from developers:

▪  An urban, mixed-use development driven primarily by residential uses, including single-family houses. There would also be small shops, offices and restaurants. Think Baxter, in Fort Mill, S.C. 

▪  An amateur sports facility-anchored development, with residential and commercial space that could include offices or a hotel.

▪  A “health and wellness” concept, with residential, commercial and educational space. This could include senior housing, walking trails and restaurants.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article181042046.html

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1 hour ago, Third Strike said:

Here are the three proposals the city is currently looking at from developers:

▪  An urban, mixed-use development driven primarily by residential uses, including single-family houses. There would also be small shops, offices and restaurants. Think Baxter, in Fort Mill, S.C. 

▪  An amateur sports facility-anchored development, with residential and commercial space that could include offices or a hotel.

▪  A “health and wellness” concept, with residential, commercial and educational space. This could include senior housing, walking trails and restaurants.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article181042046.html

At first blush, the only reasonable option seems to be the first one, but, whats the deal with a wellness concept? Would it be formatted similarly as a mixed use thing like option one?

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The Business Journal story on it https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/10/26/developer-interest-spurs-hope-for-long-suffering.html

As for town center I wouldnt quite think Baxter. The average income in the area would not support that kind of retail. I would think senior housing and apartments with some mixed use shops would work but not too much retail.  There is so much vacant retail in the area already down the Albemarle Rd corridor.  I would start with housing of any type.  

IF they do one more study and spend tax dollars on it I would go crazy.  

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