222 Glenwood

[Jones_]

^What are your reasons why? I was thinking two-fold regarding the Euro Wine Cafe. First, the streetscape and wall kind of hide it, and two, there is not a lot of foot traffic around here compared to the rest of Glenwood. If Glenwood had a hole this area would be it.

[orulz]

I heard somewhere that you should not bother to start a restaurant if your financial situation requires it to generate a profit right away.

In short, you can pretty much expect a restaurant to have a hard time breaking even at first.

The owners might have gone into this one without a solid business plan, or without enough money, or without the stomach to put up with losses for a couple of months as they get into the swing of things.

[JeffC]

I heard somewhere that you should not bother to start a restaurant if your financial situation requires it to generate a profit right away.

In short, you can pretty much expect a restaurant to have a hard time breaking even at first.

The owners might have gone into this one without a solid business plan, or without enough money, or without the stomach to put up with losses for a couple of months as they get into the swing of things.

[JT698]

crap hole location.

[DPK]

I'm going to have to side with JT698. I mean look at April and George's (later the George) too. It couldn't sustain itself and it closed down.

[Jones_]

I frequent all the "indie" spots and will be the first to tell you a place can survive just fine without that crowd. I would say Helios is not even the top coffee shop for indie kids at all, but that Morning Times and and Cup a Joe both outpace Helios for that crowd. This all since Third Place reduced its hours, or I'd give the trophy to them. Impossible to define demographics aside, the concept was fine, just not carried out well. I more or less put Zely and Ritz and Riviera in the Euro Wine Cafe category too. Z&R is doing just fine and Riviera was also a victim of poor location for the concept. As far as carrying out the concept goes, the menu seems like it needed work, the atmosphere was neither elegant nor casual (somewhere in between), and it was not in an area that appreciates this sort of thing (my whole argument). I do think most of Raleigh has a hard time with such a place, and that it may have done better on say west Franklin Street. Enotica Vin too is a well done version of what our subject was trying to accomplish, though it closed for reasons other than the outward business model facets.

[JT698]

I frequent all the "indie" spots and will be the first to tell you a place can survive just fine without that crowd. I would say Helios is not even the top coffee shop for indie kids at all, but that Morning Times and and Cup a Joe both outpace Helios for that crowd. This all since Third Place reduced its hours, or I'd give the trophy to them. Impossible to define demographics aside, the concept was fine, just not carried out well. I more or less put Zely and Ritz and Riviera in the Euro Wine Cafe category too. Z&R is doing just fine and Riviera was also a victim of poor location for the concept. As far as carrying out the concept goes, the menu seems like it needed work, the atmosphere was neither elegant nor casual (somewhere in between), and it was not in an area that appreciates this sort of thing (my whole argument). I do think most of Raleigh has a hard time with such a place, and that it may have done better on say west Franklin Street. Enotica Vin too is a well done version of what our subject was trying to accomplish, though it closed for reasons other than the outward business model facets.

[ChiefJoJo]

I never went because I already like Helios, so if I'm in the area, I was going there... something about brand loyalty. In any case, they had the most generic name possible, I mean "European Espresso & Wine Bar?" Tells me they either have zero creativity or thought about the name for all of about 5 seconds, neither of which is impresses me, nor many others as it turned out. Of course the worst recession in decades didn't help either but other businesses have opened recently (Remedy, Foundation, Boylan Bridge) and done very well.

BTW, the corner retail space at Lane St is still for lease.

[dmccall]

Riviera was also a victim of poor location for the concept.

[Jones_]

Riviera's location is not what did them in. It was the overprice, meh food in a 115 dB room that did them in. If that is a bad location, then expect Sitti and Dos Taquitos Centro to not make it, too.

[dmccall]

On two visits total I thought the food was fine for the price. By location I mean sliver of a storefront with nothing but a barely blue sign drawing attention to it. That the price is high for the average downtown diner though is why I went there twice and have been to Sitti about 20 times and Raleigh Times about 100. That corner in general draws the 10 dollar meal crowd. As Mint, and Nana's can attest to, downtown proper is not the high-end spot in this town. Even Glenwood has a hard time supporting too many above 10 dollar meals. The university area (Porters, Fraziers, Irregardless) and Hayes Barton (Bloomsbury Bistro, EVOO), have the old money and support the big money places better.

You're saying too expensive for the food, and my saying too expensive for the location echo the sort of reasons Euro Wine and Espresso closed. In the big picture, with different folks having different reasons for not going somewhere, doom is sealed all that more readily.

[ncwebguy]

The cafe didn't have much of a chance sandwiched between Helios (coffee), Mosaic (wine), and Turkish Delights (high end desserts). To say nothing of nearby 518 and 42nd Street Oyster Bar for drinks and desserts, or the "party" atmosphere of Glenwood that Tobacco Road seems to be doing a good job of serving.

I might have misread, but I think I saw that the Bruggers in 222 is going to be open late on Fridays and Saturdays now? Is there really a late-night drunken bagel crowd?

[DPK]

I might have misread, but I think I saw that the Bruggers in 222 is going to be open late on Fridays and Saturdays now? Is there really a late-night drunken bagel crowd?

[RaleighRob]

I might have misread, but I think I saw that the Bruggers in 222 is going to be open late on Fridays and Saturdays now? Is there really a late-night drunken bagel crowd?

[orulz]

Heh...most times you go to a Brueggers, you'll notice plenty of people getting their bagels in the form of sandwiches. That's my guess as to what they're aiming for.

[ncwebguy]

222 has new signs for Dunkin' Donuts and Bruggers in their corporate fonts, not the bland (and misspelled) that was up originally.

The north corner and European Cafe spaces appear to still be available. Tobacco Road seems to draw a decent crowd every time I've been by, though last night was helped by the Canes' game 7.

[miamiblue]

Just noticed that there is now paper covering the windows of the European Wine cafe space. Hopefully that means something new will be opening there soon.

[dmccall]

Asian.

[Euphorius]

Is it to much to ask for there to be a place that is not Asian, American, or Italian? I really want a southern soul food place that actually stays open decent hours, unlike Big Ed's. I wish Mama Dip would open a place in Raleigh.

[Jones_]

Is it to much to ask for there to be a place that is not Asian, American, or Italian? I really want a southern soul food place that actually stays open decent hours, unlike Big Ed's. I wish Mama Dip would open a place in Raleigh.

[Euphorius]

Indian would be just fine with me. I would still frequent India Mahal. But, I think that would go over very well in downtown. Maybe a space in the Hue, or City Market. I would kinda like for the old Euro Wine and Espresso place to be replaced with an actual store instead of another restaurant.

[Jones_]

Indian would be just fine with me. I would still frequent India Mahal. But, I think that would go over very well in downtown. Maybe a space in the Hue, or City Market. I would kinda like for the old Euro Wine and Espresso place to be replaced with an actual store instead of another restaurant.

[Tico]

Anybody know what is going on with all the recently re-erected scaffolding?? Looks to be some pretty major repairs for a new building.