Concerned about Charleston's northern neighbor

[krazeeboi]

Charleston native, that was your cue....

[UrbanSoutherner]

I think North Charleston would be better off merging with the City Of Charleston. N Charleston has no identity, no downtown

[JT Boy]

My prediction is, that 10-15 years from now, Mout Pleasant will become the official "suburb" of Charleston, Downtown will lose alot of its luster because it wont have the same neighborhood atmosphere that its always had, it will instead be more of a museum, with tourists and college students. North Charleston will continue to sore and unfortunately it probably will take most of the big attractions and developments from downtown because downtown really has nowhere to grow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I share your concerns about downtown Charleston. Although I grew up in Columbia, I spent a lot of time in Charleston, including the majority of one summer at Governor's School at CofC. I have many, many fond memories of the city and it truly is one of the historic and architectural gems of the country. My wife and I visited a good friend there about 5 years ago, and I was dumbfounded at the change in King Street. It was an open air shopping mall with the same "ritzy" shops that you can find anywhere else in the country at any mid- to upper-level shopping center. It was so bad in fact, that one of the very few remaining local shops had huge signs in their windows identifying themselves as locally-owned. King Street used to be a uniquely charming shopping district with its share of urban grit and a wonderful reflection of the unique city of Charleston. Now its just a collection of boring stores in historic buildings.

While the city still makes a wonderful tourist destination, I question the ability of the Peninsula to remain a real, living, breathing city. I fear it is headed into becoming the world's largest open-air American history museum.

[lsgchas]

I agree that North Charleston and Charleston should be merged, but I don't agree that North Charleston will ever take much power away from Charleston. In fact, I think the politicians in N. Charleston have a serious inferiority complex when it comes to their neighbor to the south. I'm more worried that they'll welcome industries and developments that no one else wants in order to "grow" their city. Case in point- Watson Hill on the other side of the Ashley River. Mayor Summey is still so pissed that Charleston annexed Daniel Island, he's willing to expand anywhere. If he annexes Watson Hill, he can keep annexing undeveloped land on that side of the Ashley. There's a ton of it over there, and only part of it is protected from development. With North Charleston's really horrible zoning policies, they could ruin an entire area that is really not North Charleston in any way, shape, or form. You have to drive far out of the way to get from North Charleston to the area in question. There's no bridge nearby, at least not yet. I'm worried this will be the future. Every other part of the Lowcountry says no to a company or developer and then North Charleston says yes, and we all end up suffering. Any comments?

-Lee

[monsoon]

JT Boy you hit the nail on the head about King St. It is really sad to see it change the way it did. I used to really enjoy going to spend the weekend in Charleston but not anymore. At least I knew it before it was gentrified.

[Mr.Marc]

To me King Street is nice and different. I took many people from out of town there and they all liked it and stayed for hours.

[Charleston native]

Charleston native, that was your cue....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I apologize for my hiatus! I have been working my butt off at the firm, and have been very sidetracked with wedding plans since the date is fast approaching, but I finally have some time to write a little more about the North area.

N. Charleston never separated from the city of Charleston as Spartan correctly pointed out. The community was a large suburban unincorporated area next to the Naval Base and the Air Force base. Trash service was provided by the N. Charleston PSD, but water was provided by the city of Charleston's CPW (more on the importance of that in a moment). In 1970, there was talk of the city of Charleston annexing parts of the area and there were a few residential areas that showed interest. The problem was that the old (idiotic, foolish, dimwitted) blue-blood members on the city council created feelings of animosity when they gave public statements of disapproval of annexation. Their reasons were not because of inadequate resources or means to provide services, but a matter of political popularity and lack of concern for the North area residents. One council member was actually quoted as saying, "They don't even know me up there."

As a result, since N. Charleston PSD residents felt that they could not have good leaders to represent their interests in the community, they voted in 1972 to incorporate. Now, the city has become a suburban monster that has basically completely blocked Charleston from expanding northward. Geographically and technically, N. Charleston is still a suburban extension of downtown. Especially with Charleston's CPW still providing water resources! Think of it this way...if it weren't for Charleston, the North area would never have developed like it did since Charleston provided the water. It definitely needs to merge to have an identity and ease tensions in different parts of Charleston.

NOW, this thing with Watson Hill...I will get into it a little later! Needless to say, it will not be pretty.

[Charleston native]

Deleted for violating forum rules on posting copyrighted material

[Charleston native]

This article is from Sunday

[Charleston native]

I decided to bump this forum because of the good news that the Charleston area has been receiving. The only unfortunate aspect of these great developments is that just about all of them are being built where?.....You guessed it, the north city. The problem is that I'm torn. On one hand, I welcome all of these developments because they are bringing more jobs, money, and people into my hometown's metro area, creating a boom. On the other hand, the actual city of Charleston, in my opinion, is hurting because these major projects aren't bringing the necessary revenue into the core city. The constant news of new developments consistently are coming from the north area. If you guys think I'm being paranoid, that's fine, let me know! But seriously, here is a list of the articles of the new developments that have taken place in the past week:

[url="http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=54452

[krazeeboi]

The last article from the Charleston Regional Business Journal requires a user log-in and password, so I'm unable to view that one. Why the heck would N. Chuck ever be a destination? A WTC isn't enough, and let's not even mention Northwoods mall; plus, the latest crime stats from Morgan Quito still shows N. Chuck ranking pretty high for a city its size.

I think someone really needs to present Spartan's burough idea to the powers that be.

[CorgiMatt]

I decided to bump this forum because of the good news that the Charleston area has been receiving. The only unfortunate aspect of these great developments is that just about all of them are being built where?.....You guessed it, the north city. The problem is that I'm torn. On one hand, I welcome all of these developments because they are bringing more jobs, money, and people into my hometown's metro area, creating a boom. On the other hand, the actual city of Charleston, in my opinion, is hurting because these major projects aren't bringing the necessary revenue into the core city. The constant news of new developments consistently are coming from the north area. If you guys think I'm being paranoid, that's fine, let me know! But seriously, here is a list of the articles of the new developments that have taken place in the past week:

[url="http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=54452

[Charleston native]

I think many of the city's leaders must be dillusional. I would love to post the entire articles from the Business Journal, but I've had my hand slapped for it in the past. Maybe Spartan could allow me to post the entire articles in quotes? What do you think?

Anyway, I did read the new stats for N. Chuck, and it indeed is still dangerous, but it is improving. Again, I think all of these events are occurring to set up an eventual metro area "takeover". I mean these are great economic developments, along with crime going down, but Summey's intentions are very questionable, and if I was mayor of Charleston, I would do my best to investigate what is going on. It just seems that Charleston and its leaders are being very complacent in their growth.

Somebody needs to present my merger idea or Spartan's borough idea to Charleston leaders before the city does indeed become a historical suburb of N. Charleston.

[Charleston native]

Your concern reminds me of the type of thing I'm typically concerned about. That's why I'm glad there is no Columbia-West Columbia MSA. No matter what municipality something is located in around here, it's the Columbia metro region with no sharing of name recognition.

Exactly! That is what I tremendously desire for my hometown's MSA. When people look at MSA's, there is no denying that the major city is indeed Columbia. Same thing with Jacksonville. I think the main reason Columbia hasn't had a problem is because mayors of the suburban cities understand that they are suburbs...they know what functionality their cities have in the metro area. N. Chuck's leaders don't...it just looks to me that they are very selfish.

[GvilleSC]

Kind of reminds me of Greenville's battle with Mauldin, Greer, AND Powdersville for a new baseball team... Let's grow but not forget the main reasons that these areas are growing. Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville are most directly responsible for their suburbs' growth- they shouldn't forget that IMO.

[Charleston native]

Kind of reminds me of Greenville's battle with Mauldin, Greer, AND Powdersville for a new baseball team... Let's grow but not forget the main reasons that these areas are growing. Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville are most directly responsible for their suburbs' growth- they shouldn't forget that IMO.

Great example. Charleston had a very similar battle with N. Charleston and Mt. Pleasant for the new Hunley museum. It would have made the most sense to build it DT along all the other attractions, the city actually existed when the Hunley was made and launched, and of course, the ties to the Civil War history.

The geniuses decided on the north city. Why? Because Summey and his cronies offered the most money. Yet, this city has no historical significance to the Hunley...it didn't even exist in the Civil War days. I just wish more people from the area saw this situation brewing right under their noses. It's like Charleston's leaders are completely oblivious.

[GvilleSC]

The geniuses decided on the north city. Why? Because Summey and his cronies offered the most money. Yet, this city has no historical significance to the Hunley...it didn't even exist in the Civil War days. I just wish more people from the area saw this situation brewing right under their noses. It's like Charleston's leaders are completely oblivious.

That's awful! Seriously! The Hunley should most definitely be in downtown Charleston! Whenever I come to Charleston, the place we ALWAYS end up spending most if not all of our time is downtown... and some at the Mt Pleasant shopping place , and as a result, I'd not think about going out of my way to see that just to turn around and go back to where I came from... What else is there that would attract people and make their trip worth while???

[vicupstate]

Charleston is indeed the best location for a Hunley Museum, but I don't remember a final decision being made on the PERMANENT location for the Hunley. The sub is in North Chas. while the scientist are still working on it.

As for your original premise, I disagree. You can't fault Summey or any mayor from trying to make the most of their city. The annexations into far-flung, un-aligned areas is not desireable. Fortunately, North Chas. will be barred from further annexation into Berkeley County. It remains to be seen that Watson Hill will be part of North Chas. either.

As for the industrial announcements going to North Chas, that is only to be expected. The vast majority of the large industrial tracts throughout the Trident are outside of Charleston proper. If they don't go to North Chas. they would go even further outward into Dorchester or Berkeley Counties. How would that benefit the City of Charleston?

It is nearly impossible for North Charleston to surpass Charleston in population. That is almost guaranteed if The Watson Hill annexation doesn't happen. Charleston already has a significant edge in population and the growth rate is much higher too. Charleston can double and even triple in popuation without any further annexations. North Charleston is not in the same position.

Even though BMW is actually in Spartanburg County, it is more often identified with Greenville. This is because Greenville is the largest and most recognized city in the upstate and many of their workers live in Greenville. Similiarly, all the industrial announcements will be thought of as being "Charleston". Just because the workers will work in North Chas. doesn't mean they won't choose to live in the more desireable city of Charleston.

Actually, Mount Pleasant is as much or more of a threat to Charleston's vitality than North Chas. IMO.

[krazeeboi]

Vic, what is your reasoning for believing that N. Chuck couldn't possibly pass the mother city in population?

[sonofaque86]

there isnt that big of a gap between n. charleston and charleston

[krazeeboi]

Population wise, this is true.

[Spartan]

there isnt that big of a gap between n. charleston and charleston

There is not much of one. There are a few un-annexed areas in the Neck area though. North Charleston has very little room to expand. If its days in Berkeley County are up, then its only hope is to annex what is left in Charleston County east of the Ashley (which isn't much), and hope for the best in Dorchester. If they manage to cross over to the Ashley River.... well, I think the resulting annexation battle would make this Watson Hill issue or even the James Island issue look like a small fistfight.

Another option for Charleston would be to set up growth boundaries for the cities in the county. This is in terms of annexation mind you, so it basicly delineates what each city in Charleston County can annex. Mecklenburg County in NC has done this. I'll see about finding that image later so you can see what I'm talking about.

[MCNite]

I know what you're talking about. The Spheres of Influence in Mecklenburg. I agree that ever since I became aware of this issue in Charleston, that they should have sat down and done something like this, if they haven't already.

[vicupstate]

Vic, what is your reasoning for believing that N. Chuck couldn't possibly pass the mother city in population?

Spartan has it right. If Summerville wins the battle over Watson Hill, North Charleston can only fill in the gaps, and it is done. Charleston has already annexed up to the Dorchester County line (too recent to be shown on Spartan's map), so West Ashley will be difficult to get to. Charleston doesn't have to annex anything further at this point, it has vast miles of undeveloped land already in it's limits. Plus it still has plenty left in W. Ashley, John's Island and perhap James Island, if it doesn't successfully incorporate.

[Spartan]

I know what you're talking about. The Spheres of Influence in Mecklenburg. I agree that ever since I became aware of this issue in Charleston, that they should have sat down and done something like this, if they haven't already.

Thats the one