Will Charlotte see another Sears or JC Penney

[DigitalSky]

Eversince Sears pulled out of SouthPark and JC Penney left Eastland I've always wondered if these stores would resurface at newer centers in the region. I know Sears still operates at Eastland and both stores at Pineville's Carolina Place... but obviously neither store is coming to Northlake. However, at other new malls across the state you see them. Durham's Southpoint has both stores, Raleigh's Triangle Town Center has Sears. Are these stores just not as profitable in Charlotte or what? I realize that all the suburbs (Concord, Gastonia, Rock Hill, Monroe) have these stores though...

Do you think that the Bridges at Mint Hill project or the Stallings Mall project will get either of these stores. (Monroe Mall is about 12 miles from here). I also don't understand why JC Penney ever pulled out of Eastland. anyway just wanted to get your thoughts on this...

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Eversince Sears pulled out of SouthPark and JC Penney left Eastland I've always wondered if these stores would resurface at newer centers in the region.  I know Sears still operates at Eastland and both stores at Pineville's Carolina Place... but obviously neither store is coming to Northlake.  However, at other new malls across the state you see them.  Durham's Southpoint has both stores, Raleigh's Triangle Town Center has Sears.  Are these stores just not as profitable in Charlotte or what?  I realize that all the suburbs (Concord, Gastonia, Rock Hill, Monroe) have these stores though...

Do you think that the Bridges at Mint Hill project or the Stallings Mall project will get either of these stores.  (Monroe Mall is about 12 miles from here).  I also don't understand why JC Penney ever pulled out of Eastland.  anyway just wanted to get your thoughts on this...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you saying that Charlotte does not have a JC Penny or sears anywhere? In Eastern NC we have both stores all over the place. Everytown has a JC Pennys and Sears. Raleigh (Wake County) has alot of Sears and JC Pennys...I cant count them all.

[DigitalSky]

Are you saying that Charlotte does not have a JC Penny or sears anywhere? In Eastern NC we have both stores all over the place. Everytown has a JC Pennys and Sears. Raleigh (Wake County) has alot of Sears and JC Pennys...I cant count them all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a Sears store at Eastland Mall, but no JC Penney within the Charlotte City limits.

[Neo]

Everytime I pass the Sears in Monroe it's dead. I've been in it a few times, each time it's almost a ghost town so I'm not sure how long they can survive at this location. It seems like Monroe west of Dickerson Blvd (the road that cuts between Monroe Mall & Harris Teeter across from the mall) is where development for the area is going and will be going. Everything east of Dickerson is older development and is really falling apart. The new Target, Best Buy, etc. going up just a couple of miles from the mall will put a big nail in the coffin of Sears IMO.

[SmellyCat]

Sears is acquiring Kmart (or vice versa). I think that says enough about where the company is headed.

[monsoon]

There is also a Sears at the Mall in Concord. Most Charlotteans would never venture there however.

[dubone]

Do you think there is a chance that one or both could operate downtown or neartown? If their demographic market is lower- and center- middle class, they might actually find success locating in southend or midtown/elizabeth. As a department store, they might actually find a competitive advantage, because they can use land more efficiently than a uni-level big box (like the target planned off king's).

I know my household would shop at one if they located nearby. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where even the lower income households near downtown would have reason to shop at a department store.

If eastland fails outright, i think they should definitely locate neartown, because they could keep most of their old customers, but by locating in an open air environment, they could add some demographic segments that will no go to eastland right now.

Also, now that sears and kmart are merging/merged, the factors might be starting to form where they could move back into an urban environment ane still compete with the new target and walmutt.

[49er]

Sears is the best place to shop for appliances. Other than that, the store doesnt offer much more than the nostalgia of being an old line dept store.

[monsoon]

Do you think there is a chance that one or both could operate downtown or neartown?  If their demographic market is lower- and center- middle class, they might actually find success locating in southend or midtown/elizabeth.  As a department store, they might actually find a competitive advantage, because they can use land more efficiently than a uni-level big box (like the target planned off king's). 

...

If eastland fails outright, i think they should definitely locate neartown, because they could keep most of their old customers, but by locating in an open air environment, they could add some demographic segments that will no go to eastland right now. 

....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ironically the downtown Sears closed and moved to Eastland in 1979 when they completed the final expansion of the Mall. It would be interesting if they reversed that step due to the demise of Eastland.

The building for the old DT Sears on N. Tryon is still there. When it was open it included not only the department store, but an auto service place, a gas station, and a very inexpensive cafeteria. You could get a haircut and your shoes shined there too. LOL

[StevenRocks]

Both Sears and JCPenney are experimenting with free-standing locations these days and proabaly won't show up at an enclosed mall in Charlotte any time soon. That opens up the possibility that either or both stores could show up in a power center or other type of 'big box' development, maybe even free-standing.

IMO, I think northern Meck could see either of them in a development near Northlake, and eastern Meck could see these stores in Mint Hill or Stallings, or an associated shopping center. Or downtown. You never know.

One things for sure: metro Charlotte is too big a market for Sears and JCPenney to avoid.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Question: Do you find Sears and JcPenny in the larger cities?

It seems to me that they are found in smaller to mid-size cities, but I could be mistaken.

[StevenRocks]

Question: Do you find Sears and JcPenny in the larger cities?

It seems to me that they are found in smaller to mid-size cities, but I could be mistaken.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes and no. Washington, Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia and Denver are examples of where Penney's and Sears are represented in the larger cities. But cities like New York and Boston don't have many considering their populations.

You're correct in your observation that they're stronger in mid- to small-size cities. The demographics of smaller towns match up better with where the chains are headed, though both companies are expanding in the larger cities as well.

Bringing it back a little more local, the growth of Kohl's and Target in Charlotte is proof that potential Sears and JCPenney customers are here. What happened to both chains is that they stopped opening new stores a few years ago because of financial trouble and a lack of mew mall construction. These days, both stores are on better financial footing and have figured out how to sell to modern consumers.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

lol, I forgot about Chicago... that was an obvious one.

I agree with the Kohls and Target statement though, those places are really busy and they probably do some good business.

[dubone]

Ironically the downtown Sears closed and moved to Eastland in 1979 when they completed the final expansion of the Mall.  It would be interesting if they reversed that step due to the demise of Eastland. 

The building for the old DT Sears on N. Tryon is still there.  When it was open it included not only the department store, but an auto service place, a gas station, and a very inexpensive cafeteria.  You could get a haircut and your shoes shined there too.  LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, i do my recycling (and occassionally homeless-feeding) next to that old building . Too bad they didn't keep the land.

It would be ironic, definitely, but consistent with modern american trends. Trends are definitely toward restoring some of the lifestlye of the pre-suburban (maybe pre-WWII?) age. Those trends are spurring resurgence of urban residential, nightlife, trolleys, pedestrian networks, storefront retail, urban department stores, and corner grocers (6th and pine harris teeter, 7th and trolley reid's).

if sears or penny's join that trend, i'm all for it, even if they helped create the opposite trend last century.

It would especially cool if saks, target, and sears were all in midtown/elizabeth. That would bring all demographics to that part of town in a healthy way.

[nyxmike]

I'm suprised Charlotte doesn't have a Saks Fifth Avenue, Lord and Taylor, or a Crate and Barrel but Raleigh does... Anyone know why these retailers haven't considered the Charlotte market yet?

[peaceloveunderstanding]

In fact Saks has considred but due to poor management by the developer it never happened.

[DigitalSky]

I'm suprised Charlotte doesn't have a Saks Fifth Avenue, Lord and Taylor, or a Crate and Barrel but Raleigh does... Anyone know why these retailers haven't considered the Charlotte market yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think back in the 80s when SouthPark expanded with Thalhimer's (Hecht's now), Lord & Taylor also considered joining the mall where Nordys is now, but it just never happened. Crate - well a lof of people want Crate and Barrel, in fact they recently opened a distribution center in Lincolnton, but for some reason they haven't opened a store in Charlotte yet...

[DigitalSky]

sorry double-post

[waccamatt]

I think back in the 80s when SouthPark expanded with Thalhimer's (Hecht's now), Lord & Taylor also considered joining the mall where Nordys is now, but it just never happened.  Crate - well a lof of people want Crate and Barrel, in fact they recently opened a distribution center in Lincolnton, but for some reason they haven't opened a store in Charlotte yet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've found that I like Cost Plus World Market as much as Crate and Barrel and Pottery Barn and the prices are much better. Do you have any World Markets in Charlotte? 2 recently opened in Columbia and I love them.

[waccamatt]

In Columbia, Sears is building a 3rd store right now, on the East side of town in a strip mall. The other 2 Sears are in Regional Malls. Right now there is only one Penney's, however.

I believe there are also some small Sears and/or Penney's in some of the smaller metro area towns here, like Camden, Newberry and Winnsboro or Sumter.

[StevenRocks]

I think back in the 80s when SouthPark expanded with Thalhimer's (Hecht's now), Lord & Taylor also considered joining the mall where Nordys is now, but it just never happened.  Crate - well a lof of people want Crate and Barrel, in fact they recently opened a distribution center in Lincolnton, but for some reason they haven't opened a store in Charlotte yet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right, there was a Lord & Taylor considered at SouthPark in the '80s, but it never got off the planning table. May Company ended up purchasing Thalhimers a few years later and opening a Hecht's where Thalhimers was.

The rumor that L&T was coming persisted into the late '90s, when reportedly May offered Sears $20 million for their SouthPark store. Sears instead sold its store to the Simon Property Group for an undisclosed amount when they closed in 2003.

Lord & Taylor is in the process of closing its stores in the South, so even if the SouthPark scenario had worked out, it's likely the store would have closed by now, or would have been on the chopping block like the Crabtree Valley Mall store in Raleigh.

Saks had a signed letter of intent for a SouthPark store in 1996, but finacial troubles and an ownwership change on their part, several changes in ownership and management on SouthPark's part, and a major zoning controversy on the mall site kept delaying the store opening. Saks backed out of SouthPark around 2001 or so and started negotiating with Dee Dee Harris for an anchor position at Seven Eagles on Park Poad. As you all probably know by now, Seven Eagles is in limbo, and so is Saks' Charlotte store, after oulling out of that project last year.

Crate & Barrel is still a major posssibility for Charlotte, though not at SouthPark mall. When and if it does come, it will likely be in the SouthPark area at one of the other shopping centers like Morrison Place or Piedmont Town Center going up nearby.

[DigitalSky]

I've found that I like Cost Plus World Market as much as Crate and Barrel and Pottery Barn and the prices are much better. Do you have any World Markets in Charlotte? 2 recently opened in Columbia and I love them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, we have 3. One in University City, one in Pineville and one in Matthews. All in Power Centers, of course.

[monsoon]

Yes, we have 3.  One in University City, one in Pineville and one in Matthews.  All in Power Centers, of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is one in Mooresville too at the Super Target powercenter.

[SmellyCat]

Yes and no.  Washington, Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia and Denver are examples of where Penney's and Sears are represented in the larger cities.  But cities like New York and Boston don't have many considering their populations. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is actually a very large JCPenney which anchors the Queens Center Mall in NYC, the largest enclosed mall in the city. And although it is technically not in Manhattan (5 miles away), the mall is a major destination place for NYC urbanites with sales well over $1000 per square foot, one of the highest figures in the U.S. It just underwent a major renovation. There is a Sears about a half mile down the road from that mall, which is also very successful.

[StevenRocks]

In Columbia, Sears is building a 3rd store right now, on the East side of town in a strip mall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it a Sears Grand store that they're building in east Columbia?

Those seem really cool. Here's what Sears has to say about the new concept stores:

Sears Grand is a one-level store that carries everything from milk to refrigerators, bathing suits to sun block and car seats to baby food. Sears Grand offers the best of what Sears is known for