First City in SC to build Mass Transit?

[UrbanSoutherner]

I still cannot see any light rail in SC with the possible exception of Rock Hill (only as an extension of Charlotte's system) or Myrtle Beach and Charleston since they have a significantly linear layout (Myrtle Beach along the beach and Charleston-North Charleston between the Cooper and Ashley) and lots of tourism. Columbia and Greenville-Spartanburg just are not built in a fashion that would lend itself to a viable light rail system it seems to me. And with Greenville, you have a small bus system (compared with Columbia or Charleston), so you have no real public transit system of any size in place already. I do not see the feds (who always fund much of the costs of such a project) pumping money into a Greenville or a Columbia or really even any other SC city. The cities in SC are also somewhat smaller than the cities that have put in place light rail.

Unfortunately, there also seems to be a more anti-public transit and anti-tax sentiment in SC than in say Charlotte on average. North Carolina cities seem to get away with more expensive projects in terms of tax dollars (larger municipal populations help here of course). In its efforts to become a significant city nationally and compete with Atlanta, Charlotte has really become a very booster-driven city. That has its problems of course. But one thing the boosterist mentality does is make the city think "big" so to speak and dare to do bold things. This is what has driven Atlanta for several decades to do sometimes stupid things, but always bold things. That is how Atlanta won the Olympics. I do not see "big" thinking even on a smaller scale coming out of SC cities generally. That may be changing with ICAR and the USC research campus. Maybe as SC's metro areas get bigger, they will become more forward thinking. This a frustration that I have with SC cities in general. Maybe my expectations are unfair since SC's cities are smaller than say Charlotte and do not have as large a growth rate and do not have the big corporate presence to fund things, but it is a frustration nonetheless.

I missed the ruckus over Greenville in earlier posts, but let me say as someone who has been critical of Greenville at times, I would never compare it to Fayetteville. Whatever its shortcomings may be, Greenville is an infinitely better place than Fayetteville in my opinion.

[btoy]

My understanding is that Greenville's interest in light rail is long term, possibly 10-15 years down the road.

But you have to look in to the future and plan accordingly, if light rail ever becomes nessicary it could be alot harder instituting it 10 years from now rather than planning ahead.

It may never be in Greenville's best interest but better to plan for it and not due it than to find out you need it but it is no longer feasible.

[krazeeboi]

And it WILL become necessary in the Upstate. Brad, I agree: go ahead and get the studies underway and draw up some preliminary plans. Better safe than sorry.

[RestedTraveler]

My understanding is that Greenville's interest in light rail is long term, possibly 10-15 years down the road.

But you have to look in to the future and plan accordingly, if light rail ever becomes nessicary it could be alot harder instituting it 10 years from now rather than planning ahead.

It may never be in Greenville's best interest but better to plan for it and not due it than to find out you need it but it is no longer feasible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sounds to me from attending a meeting the other night that the plans for Greenville County DEFINITELY include mass transit...and it's not a matter of if but when.

Even though the current intermediate plans for the abandoned rail lines are for them to be converted into trails (http://www.railtrails.org/), all of the discussion has insisted that these lines are going to be preserved for the imminent usage as a transit (light rail, rapid bus, etc.) line. Where the ROW is wide enough to allow for both the transit and the trail to be side-by-side, they will be. Where the ROW is not wide enough, the trail will loop out away from the rail line and then back again to where the ROW is once again wide enough for both.

[GvilleSC]

Looking at the Verdae project and the impact on the roads in Greenville- It's just another reason why Greenville needs to start its mass rail transit NOW! We don't need to wait until it's unbearable, we need to stay a step ahead of the growth. As we all know, 10,000 residents are expected or proposed to live on the verdae site and 15,000 are expected to work there. The density of this developement proves to be able to support stops that would be utilized.

[krazeeboi]

It sounds to me from attending a meeting the other night that the plans for Greenville County DEFINITELY include mass transit...and it's not a matter of if but when.

Even though the current intermediate plans for the abandoned rail lines are for them to be converted into trails (http://www.railtrails.org/), all of the discussion has insisted that these lines are going to be preserved for the imminent usage as a transit (light rail, rapid bus, etc.) line.  Where the ROW is wide enough to allow for both the transit and the trail to be side-by-side, they will be.  Where the ROW is not wide enough, the trail will loop out away from the rail line and then back again to where the ROW is once again wide enough for both.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that's good news. It would be such a shame for Greenville to receive all of this recognition about good urban planning and development only to have it all ruined for a lack of vision and foresight when it comes to mass transit. I believe the two go hand in hand.

[Spartan]

Looking at the Verdae project and the impact on the roads in Greenville- It's just another reason why Greenville needs to start its mass rail transit NOW! We don't need to wait until it's unbearable, we need to stay a step ahead of the growth. As we all know, 10,000 residents are expected or proposed to live on the verdae site and 15,000 are expected to work there. The density of this developement proves to be able to support stops that would be utilized.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It fits in well with this plan since they expect that area to tak 10-20 years to develop completely.

[Hybrid0NE]

[CLICK HERE] to Check out the thread I created for it with more detailed info...

My vision of light-rail for Columbia in 2075, hopefully the city wouldn't have sprawled out too much to not justify it's construction. I got a feeling new Columbia neighboorhoods will extend well past Camden and Newberry by that time. It would mainly serve the central core with commuter lines to the current suburbs.

[Charleston native]

In the article link below, here was yesterday's P & C editorial explaining the need for a light rail system in my hometown. I firmly believe that Charleston will be the first city in the state to get it, especially with the current leaders of the community being so adamant about it.

My only problem with this editorial is the downplaying of widening highway and street lanes to accomodate more cars and just focusing on light rail. That, IMO, is not proper thinking when planning for future growth. Many new citizens will want to drive a car and some will need at least one for business. My belief is that when you are using the half-cent local option sales tax for transportation needs, you must do both: build a light rail system AND widen streets and highways. Being proactive in this sense prepares for additional growth 40-50 years later in the future.

Time to plan for light rail

[goodbye]

Another article in the Upstate all about the need/desire for highspeed rail. A good read.

Trip may help put Upstate on track

[monsoon]

I now believe the first city in SC that will build a mass transit system will be Rock Hill. They are actively working on a trolley/LRT for the city and received $400,000 in this year's federal transit budget to study the issue further. They were the only city in SC to receive any money in the 2007 transit budget for rail.

There is also an effort to study running a commuter rail line up to Charlotte to connect to it's system. Both the LRT/Trolley and CR line would be connected to each other.

[krazeeboi]

That would be great for the city indeed. I'm just hoping that developments such as Trolleys/LRT, residential infill, and Winthrop's increasing prominence will help to keep Rock Hill intact as much as possible as Charlotte's sprawl inches closer and closer.

I think it only makes sense to eventually have commuter rail connect the Trolley/LRT to Charlotte. I have hopes that it will be successful.

[btoy]

I agree that Rock Hill makes sense to be the first but I wouldn't be surprised if Clemson Follows it. They hvae been considering comuuter trains on the Amtrack Line from Clemson to Greenville for years.

[teshadoh]

Just for consideration - what I would consider to be the possible transit projects in SC:

Charleston - tourist oriented street car in historic district

light rail connecting Charleston to N Charleston

Columbia - street car in central city, possibly a donwtown loop for USC

Greenville - commuter rail between Clemson, Spartanburg, Anderson & Simpsonville

Myrtle Beach - tourist oriented light rail / monorail along the Grand Strand

Aiken - commuter rail to Augusta

Rock Hill - of course the street car &/or commuter rail which appears it has the best chance of becoming SC's first transit project (at least post WWII).

[Greenville]

I think you can add local light rail for Greenville as well. They are designing the ICAR and Millennium campuses with light rail in mind, and the line from Traveler's Rest could be light rail one day as well. Even more urgent, at least from what I have heard mentioned in recent years, is a line from GSP International to downtown Greenville.

[Spartan]

I agree that Rock Hill makes sense to be the first but I wouldn't be surprised if Clemson Follows it. They hvae been considering comuuter trains on the Amtrack Line from Clemson to Greenville for years.

I doubt that would happen anytime soon. The demand for such a thing would likely be very low. Driving to Greenville is not very difficult, and right now the train wouldn't get you to where you need to go (Woodruff Rd, Haywood Mall).

The Anderson Area Transportation Study (ANATS) is funding a study to determine the feasablility of a light rail line to Clemson. I also think that this would not happen.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Rock Hill get the first transit system, especially as a spur of Charlotte's line. I am glad that they are getting some federal money to look into the situation.

[Greenville]

The only reason Rock Hill would get a light rail is to connect to Charlotte's. I don't think Rock Hill would need one otherwise.

[monsoon]

The only reason Rock Hill would get a light rail is to connect to Charlotte's. I don't think Rock Hill would need one otherwise.

Laugh at them if you like, but the ARE getting Federal Transit Funds for work to build a downtown Streetcar/LRT system. That puts them ahead of any other effort in SC.

[The_sandlapper]

Rock Hill actually does make the most sense since it is basically becoming the NJ of Charlotte. I think it is a prime candidate for a commuter line after that I would say:

Myrtle

Charleston

Anderson/ Greenville/ Spartanburg (commuter type even though traffic patterns don't reflect the need now)

Columbia mabye sooner as more developments fill up DT (ie Innovista, West Bank, etc. still not really a need for it now though) actually a better bus system would be cheaaper and just as good for now.

[krazeeboi]

Rock Hill actually does make the most sense since it is basically becoming the NJ of Charlotte.

I prefer to think of York County as the "NoVa" of Charlotte (along with Lancaster County).

[The_sandlapper]

Hey what's wrong with Jersey that's my native state!

[krazeeboi]

No offense to the native New Jersians (is that the right term?), of course.

[Greenville]

Laugh at them if you like, but the ARE getting Federal Transit Funds for work to build a downtown Streetcar/LRT system. That puts them ahead of any other effort in SC.

I am not laughing at Rock Hill, but I think it is obvious that Rock Hill would not be a candidate for light rail if it were not on the outskirts of Charlotte. That isn't taking anything away from Rock Hill, but comparing light rail in Rock Hill to light rail in one of the state's big 3 metros is like comparing apples and oranges. Don't you think?

[krazeeboi]

Well, I still think it's a plus for Rock Hill, considering that this hasn't yet occurred in Gastonia or Statesville or Monroe. This is also just one reason why I believe that Rock Hill will eventually become the 2nd largest city in the Charlotte metro area.

[monsoon]

I am not laughing at Rock Hill, but I think it is obvious that Rock Hill would not be a candidate for light rail if it were not on the outskirts of Charlotte. That isn't taking anything away from Rock Hill, but comparing light rail in Rock Hill to light rail in one of the state's big 3 metros is like comparing apples and oranges. Don't you think?

No I don't think so at all. Light Rail does not serve sprawl. It's purpose is to allow transit "within" a city so that it can become more dense without having more traffic congestion. This is what Rock Hill is working on and it has nothing to do with Charlotte.

There is a seperate project to connect to Charlotte's system via Commuter Rail.

Now considering that LRT is meant for IN city transit, we have this from the US Census.

• Rock Hill - Population - 56,114, Population Growth (1990) +28%

• Greenville - Population - 55,926, Population Growth (1990) -4.5%

Given that LRT is meant for city transit, why would I want to entertain putting LRT in Greenville and not Rock Hill given those statistics? Rock Hill is larger and it is actually growing at a fantastic rate compared to Greenville's losing people.

Rock Hill is doing really well, and is a prime candidate for SC's first Light Rail System.