Thinking about moving to Providence?

[runawayjim]

Yep, Jen is right. Pleasant Street is probably one of the 3 worst streets in PVD (next to Chad Brown and Taylor in South PVD).

But Camp is tricky. Its more than fine on certain blocks, not so fine on others.

[megk]

thanks for that input... i'm apartment hunting right now and a lot of apartments in that area come up in my search.

[jencoleslaw]

Pleasant Street from Camp to Hope is great, btw--lots of owner occupied, very gay friendly (that was my experience when doing multiple tree plantings). but from Camp down, not so much... But, i think its all getting better.

[PBoyce79]

Yep, Jen is right. Pleasant Street is probably one of the 3 worst streets in PVD (next to Chad Brown and Taylor in South PVD).

But Camp is tricky. Its more than fine on certain blocks, not so fine on others.

[runawayjim]

There's a sign up on Rochambeau. Have no clue what it's like, but it seems that the majority are like ours: Classic railway flat. Is that what you call them here?

Also, I've walked down Camp Street, during the day, to Whole Foods. It really runs the gamut. Is it the food bank? or what?

Meg

[Recchia]

I bought a condo on Camp St about five months ago, and while there was a couple of drug bust in our parking lot when we first moved in but the police told us that they weren't from the neighborhood. The stigma is what keeps them coming and it seems to be fading as more people are fixing up the buildings and are taking more pride in there property. It is nice to be between cute Hope St and North Main (which the Summit Neighborhood Association is working on a master plan to revitalize it, they want walgreens to be the last new unwanted building). Hopefully we can get some of those streetcars coming down it to really shake up the neighborhood. Welcome to the neighborhood Recchia

[Jerry2]

Congratulations! I'm no really sure if this is by the rules or not but if you haven't secured financing yet, you can PM me and I can run through a scenario for you. Our mortgage terms are not based on a fee scale nor a yield curve. As far as the neighborhood, I don't think it's as bad as it is portrayed. The majority of the problems in that area are based around a small low income project on lower Pleasant St. However, as with most of Pvd, I think the best time for an accurate depiction of any area is best done on a hot day in July.

[megk]

what's a railway flat?

[runawayjim]

Long and narrow, hallway down the middle with rooms on either side. Think railway car ;-)

[matt]

guess thats what i have. I was just introduced to the term 'shotgun ranch'.

[Jenkins]

guess thats what i have. I was just introduced to the term 'shotgun ranch'.

[markOne]

Naturally the british term "railroad flat" sounds such much better than the american 'shotgun ranch'

Edited March 15, 2007 by markOne

[Griswald]

I know the park on the corner of Camp and Cypress is supposed to be drug infested, though I've never seen anything too sketchy there yet and I've been by it many times.

[campster]

Yay! Another thread where folks are talking about Camp Street! And I'm here to tell you it's paradise!

Well, okay, maybe not paradise, that's just a little hyperbole where hyperbole is due -- to counter what still seems to be a poor impression of the area...

As in the other thread (which it looks like I've totally derailed by mentioning cocktails), I'll say it again: I love Camp Street! I've lived in some fantastic places (Boston lofts in the 80's, a house right on the bay on the Cape, a log cabin up in the woods in Maine, a huge dilapidated apartment in Cambridge...) and there is really, honestly, no place I'd rather live than right here.

Yes, eight years ago it was pretty dismal, mostly because of the long-term effects of absentee landlords putting as little effort as possible into their properties. But this has changed so much, even over the past three years. The police substation just off Cypress has made a huge difference -- thugs don't run the neighborhood anymore. Many houses have changed hands and are occupied by owners for the first time in years. In other cases, as we've lost longtime, elderly homeowners, their houses have transferred to younger people in the family or to buyers new to the neighborhood. In the latter cases, houses that had been in the same family for forty or fifty years are often relatively unchanged from their original state and condition -- needing repairs but ripe for restoration.

In the process of all this, many new owners have improved their houses and attracted tenants who appreciate a good rent at a somewhat lower price than elsewhere on the East Side. Many of the old owners who are still here appreciate having neighbors who are into taking care of their houses, pick up the trash, and don't shoot each other. The folks who were here "first" were in many cases the ones who suffered most -- it's not like they were the ones who were doing all the gang-bangin'. For the most part, that was the tenants in houses that were run by half-assed "management" companies. And most of those have been driven out, if only by attrition.

So what's here now is a great, friendly neighborhood -- time to set the old reputation aside. What I experience every day, anyway, is a great community that just keeps getting better.

Lower Pleasant Street? Nothing like it used to be -- again, new homeowners have really been putting a lot of work into their houses, and taking pride in ownership. From where I'm sitting, I used to hear gunshots regularly -- at least several times a month. Now? Maybe once or twice a year, in a good year. None at all would be better, but where can you be sure of finding that?

As jencoleslaw said, upper Pleasant has been getting better for years. Great folks up there. (I was part of the digging crew when she brought us trees in...'03?)

I'll be happy to answer any questions that might help to dispel the old impressions of Camp Street. It's a very walkable/bikeable friendly neighborhood, so watch ya mouf'!

(Regarding the "railroad flat" thing -- I don't think we have those here. As I understand the term, a railroad flat is one -- such as used to be pretty normal in lower East Side Manhattan -- where there aren't any hallways at all, and you'd have to walk through one room to get to another. Same principle as the New Orleans "shotgun shack" that was mentioned.)

[runawayjim]

From where I'm sitting, I used to hear gunshots regularly -- at least several times a month. Now? Maybe once or twice a year, in a good year. None at all would be better, but where can you be sure of finding that?

[Cotuit]

i have never heard a gunshot since i've moved to providence. i live in elmhurst.

[campster]

i have never heard a gunshot since i've moved to providence. i live in elmhurst.

[runawayjim]

Yeah, but can you be sure you won't?

Heh.

[matt]

unless the elderly start a gang... yes, i am pretty sure i will never hear a gunshot in this neighborhood.

[runawayjim]

you might hear an echo from NP.

[jencoleslaw]

there's shootings in NP?

i once read on craigslist that if you go to south providence, you will be shot.

[gregw]

I live near Camp St. and like the neighborhood as well and I have also been pissed off over the years by the attitude that it's a "ghetto" to be avoided at all costs. On the other hand, it was because of that attitude, I am sure, that my wife and I were able to afford our house, which is a half block away from Camp St., although the northern end of it where it becomes more middle-class with single-family homes.

One thing that amazes me as a longtime Providence person is how integrated Camp Street and blocks to the west of it have gotten. Back in the 70s, you would pretty much only see people who were African-American. Incredibly segregated, influence of housing discrimination, red-lining, etc. Now you see a mix of African-Americans, whites, Latinos, as well as a mix of incomes.

Despite the good, the neighborhood could use more retail. The fact that most of the storefronts are occupied by a police substation and social service agencies/non-profits shows the challenges the neighorhood faces.

There is also a wave of violence between the East Side and the South Side gangs that has left several young people dead from drive-by shootings. No one even knows what started this pointless feud. On the bright side, the Providence Police are on top of it with their Gang Unit and neighborhood policing and that might help to stop it.

People are often surprised to find poverty on the East Side. But the East Side isn't monolithic. It's a bunch of different neighborhoods. Fox Point is also traditionally a working class area with pockets of poverty (Ives Street). The East Side isn't Greenwich, CT. It's more like a mini Manhattan with neighborhoods running from the Upper East Side to Harlem and the Lower East Side.

[campster]

I live near Camp St. and like the neighborhood as well and I have also been pissed off over the years by the attitude that it's a "ghetto" to be avoided at all costs. On the other hand, it was because of that attitude, I am sure, that my wife and I were able to afford our house, which is a half block away from Camp St., although the northern end of it where it becomes more middle-class with single-family homes.

One thing that amazes me as a longtime Providence person is how integrated Camp Street and blocks to the west of it have gotten. Back in the 70s, you would pretty much only see people who were African-American. Incredibly segregated, influence of housing discrimination, red-lining, etc. Now you see a mix of African-Americans, whites, Latinos, as well as a mix of incomes.

Despite the good, the neighborhood could use more retail. The fact that most of the storefronts are occupied by a police substation and social service agencies/non-profits shows the challenges the neighorhood faces.

There is also a wave of violence between the East Side and the South Side gangs that has left several young people dead from drive-by shootings. No one even knows what started this pointless feud. On the bright side, the Providence Police are on top of it with their Gang Unit and neighborhood policing and that might help to stop it.

People are often surprised to find poverty on the East Side. But the East Side isn't monolithic. It's a bunch of different neighborhoods. Fox Point is also traditionally a working class area with pockets of poverty (Ives Street). The East Side isn't Greenwich, CT. It's more like a mini Manhattan with neighborhoods running from the Upper East Side to Harlem and the Lower East Side.

[gregw]

We bought in late 98 before the market went crazy and when a house west of Hope St. was easily 100K cheaper than one east of Hope and you could not spend over 200. I used to feel envious of our neighbors who bought in the mid 90s and paid under 100 for a house! Imagine that, a nice bungalow for $85,000!

With the commercial spaces on Camp, someone who has lived off Camp St. for years and years told me that the space where Camp St. Ministries now is was once an A&P market. The other shops were all mom and pops of one sort or another. There's still a barber shop

Glad to hear the shootings are dying down. When most US cities--even NYC--are seeing increases in violent crime now, Providence seems so far to be going against the trend. Let's hope that continues.

How long have you had your house, gregw? I bought mine toward the end of '99 and it was far more of a house than I could have gotten anywhere else on the East Side. I certainly couldn't buy it now and live the same as I do now. At the time when I bought it, though, I paid what was said to be the highest price paid for a Camp Street house. And my real estate agent strongly suggested that I wouldn't want to live here. I did, though, and I do.

I agree with you that we certainly could use more neighborhood-relevant retail, which is why I'm eager to see something good done with 110 Doyle and the Miko's space. I guess neither of these would add much to your end of the street, though you're just a stone's throw from Hope Village. Funny, until you mentioned them, it never really occurred to me that the police substation, Camp Street Ministries, and the MHNA building are all, in fact, former commercial spaces. I guess it's because they all serve purposes geared toward the community as it exists today -- which as you point out does say something about the community and its needs. I've always thought the roof of the 6-11 would be a great place for an open-air cafe in the summers, though -- great view!

The East Side-South Side beef, so I've been told by long-time neighbors, has its roots in old family feuds. Apart from that, I think that a lot of the gunplay that used to plague lower Pleasant Street was simply drug-related drama. With better policing and home ownership on Pleasant, drugs aren't nearly as much in the picture, so shootings have become rare.

[campster]

So we came in around the same time frame. A lot of changes, huh? When I was looking, there were some fairly nice houses (though smallish) for sale in the low 60's on side streets below Camp, on the hill.

Come to think of it, somebody did mention to me at one time that the Ministries building had been an A&P. Also that there was a First National up into the sixties where there's now the green space with pine trees next to the King School. And there were a handful of commercial buildings directly across Camp from where the school now is. Apparently some neighborhood nutcase set them on fire just to watch them burn. Of course Camp-across-Doyle to Olney was prime "urban renewal" territory by the sixties, and a huge segment of the old neighborhood was razed.

Interesting -- envisioning these long-gone businesses, you get a picture of Camp Street as a residential neighborhood with commercial clusters serving the neighborhood's needs. Seems like a rather nice picture, especially to someone like me who's recently decided to live without a car.