NC Projections for the year 2030

[DigitalSky]

1.25 Million, that will be the population of the QC in 2030 according to http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12019840.htm

[49er]

i wonder what % of wake and meck are undevelopable, covered by water, etc. I actually think Mecklenburg has a great deal of undevelopment land left, especially to the northwest of downtown.

[DigitalSky]

yes- it's becoming fast developed though

[TowerRooster]

I totally agree that there are certainly many variables involved in predicting the success of a transit system... Density is one consideration, but what you want is ridership--and quantity is more important than quality. A city of 20,000 people can be very dense but it would not automatically validate the existence of a rail based transit system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Coming from someone who's lived in Winston-Salem and Greensboro, I definitely think Winston-Salem is more suited for mass transit than Greensboro. Besides the density difference, I have always noticed that people in Winston seem to generally have a much more progressive attitude about things urban and definitely more of a sense of community. Look how many Winston-Salem people have stepped out in defense of it on this thread.

Mass transit aside, Winston-Salem is a much more urban feeling place than Greensboro, hands down. monsoon, I think if you include GSO on that list of NC urban centers and don't include Winston you just haven't thought about it (or perhaps seen it) much, becuase I'm sure you'd agree. Besides, as was already mentioned, the population difference between Forsyth and Guildford counties in this projection is pretty much High Point.

[Beany]

Coming from someone who's lived in Winston-Salem and Greensboro, I definitely think Winston-Salem is more suited for mass transit than Greensboro.  Besides the density difference, I have always noticed that people in Winston seem to generally have a much more progressive attitude about things urban and definitely more of a sense of community.  Look how many Winston-Salem people have stepped out in defense of it on this thread. 

Mass transit aside, Winston-Salem is a much more urban feeling place than Greensboro, hands down.  monsoon, I think if you include GSO on that list of NC urban centers and don't include Winston you just haven't thought about it (or perhaps seen it) much, becuase I'm sure you'd agree.  Besides, as was already mentioned, the population difference between Forsyth and Guildford counties in this projection is pretty much High Point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you get that from? "w-s being much more urban than gso". The cities are so much more similar than they are different in that regard. Speaking of density, gso is actually more densely populated than w-s.

[MZT]

Gaston County growth is predicted to pick up when the northern loop of 485 is completed. There's already more attention from developers in the old mill towns of Belmont and Mount Holly. Subdivisions and new stores are being planned.

Gastonia proper will take more time to turn around, I think. It's cluttered looking and dilapidated. The DT itself is very abandoned. It looks like Danville.

Property taxes are kinda high in Gaston county, too. Most of the people I've talked to who want to escape Mecklenburg and commute in, seem to favor Union County or Cabarrus County.

[TowerRooster]

Where did you get that from?  "w-s being much more urban than gso".  The cities are so much more similar than they are different in that regard.  Speaking of density, gso is actually more densely populated than w-s.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You did leave out a critical word when "quoting" me. I didn't say it was much more urban, I said it FEELS a lot more urban.

I didn't get that idea from anywhere, except for my own personal thoughts, which I thought for a while may have been biased because of my personal ties to the city. However, a few people I know who lived most of their lives in Greensboro offered opinions that supported mine as I hung out with them in Winston-Salem. Here are two direct quotes from two different friends of mine... their opinion is certianly not expert, but both of them are in school for architecture... "Winston-Salem feels more like a city than Greensboro"... and "Is it just me, or is Winston a much more interesting city than Greensboro". They are not much different in terms of population or density, but there are several areas in Winston that, for lack of a better way of putting it, just "feel" more like a city, or just seem to have a lot more charm that would appeal to urban people, and these areas are connected to each other. Mainly I'm thinking of downtown, babtist hospital area, the whole area surrounding Hanes Park, and the stratford/five-points area, because that's where I've spent the most time.

It's an opinion that could certainly be debated, but I hardly think it's one rediculous enough to laugh at.

[Beany]

You did leave out a critical word when "quoting" me.  I didn't say it was much more urban, I said it FEELS a lot more urban. 

I didn't get that idea from anywhere, except for my own personal thoughts, which I thought for a while may have been biased because of my personal ties to the city.  However, a few people I know who lived most of their lives in Greensboro offered opinions that supported mine as I hung out with them in Winston-Salem.  Here are two direct quotes from two different friends of mine... their opinion is certianly not expert, but both of them are in school for architecture... "Winston-Salem feels more like a city than Greensboro"... and "Is it just me, or is Winston a much more interesting city than Greensboro".  They are not much different in terms of population or density, but there are several areas in Winston that, for lack of a better way of putting it, just "feel" more like a city, or just seem to have a lot more charm that would appeal to urban people, and these areas are connected to each other.  Mainly I'm thinking of downtown, babtist hospital area, the whole area surrounding Hanes Park, and the stratford/five-points area, because that's where I've spent the most time. 

It's an opinion that could certainly be debated, but I hardly think it's one rediculous enough to laugh at.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMO that is like saying McDonalds feels much more upscale than Burger King. But anyway, you are certainly entitled to see it that way.

I do like W-S though. Has a nice skyline and some neat neighborhoods. Just don't see it on any higher level of urbanity than GSO.

[krazeeboi]

I've visited both cities, and to me, Winston-Salem feels a little more urban as well. Also, I know a skyline doesn't make a city, but Greensboro has some catching up to do with Winston-Salem in that regard.

[kmurphy19662003]

I've visited both cities, and to me, Winston-Salem feels a little more urban as well. Also, I know a skyline doesn't make a city, but Greensboro has some catching up to do with Winston-Salem in that regard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Winston-Salem's downtown is a underacheiver. Winston has more unique buildings than downtown Greensboro, but what do they do with them? I get frustrated with the downtown redevelopment progress in Winston-Salem. After dark, South Elm in Greensboro has a vibe to it that Winston-Salem lacks. I can see a world of change in downtown Greensboro over the last five years, hopefully Winston-Salem will realize its potential.

[TowerRooster]

Winston-Salem's downtown is a underacheiver.  Winston has more unique buildings than downtown Greensboro,  but what do they do with them?  I get frustrated with the downtown redevelopment progress in Winston-Salem.  After dark, South Elm in Greensboro has a vibe to it that Winston-Salem lacks.  I can see a world of change in downtown Greensboro over the last five years,  hopefully Winston-Salem will realize its potential.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually agree with you, Winston's downtown has always frustrated me too. So much untapped potential. I see the change in GSO's downtown as well, and agree that in many ways it is ahead of Winston. However, I was not really comparing their downtowns so much as some of the areas surrounding the downtown area. I also think I overstated the difference in urbanity when I really think that in my head I was thinking more of the difference in cultural richness. Neither city is very urban, after all.

[dromulus]

i used to live in winston-salem. i felt that it had a very urban core, but somewhat decaying. the city is doing great efforts to revitalize the downtown area and i think that other cities can learn from that. maybe in 10 years, the decaying impression i got will be superceded with a very well revitalized downtown. what always concerned me was the skyscrapers seemed empty. the old wachovia is almost empty and the new one just shipped most of their tenants to charlotte. before long, bb&t will be bought by one of the big 3 and those offices will be vacant as well. rjr is in a slow decline just due to the products they sell and the times we are in. all that is left is gmac, wf med center and the local govt. if i'm leaving some out, please let me know. in my oppinion, in order for w-s downtown to trully suceed, is to find new corporations to locate there in the existing office space, or it will be a primarily residential downtown.

greensboro, i can't really comment on because i don't know much about it's downtown. i do understand that they have a lot of vacant office space as well (i.e. the old wachovia building).

but back to the point, greensboro seems much more populous than w-s, but w-s downtown seems much more urban than greensboro.

just my observations.

[Sabaidee]

Well as a student at WSSU and dating someone from NC A&T, I've experienced both city very well. Winston has a lil more grity feel while GSO seems a lil more polished, though GSO do have grity sections. I guess the grity feeling is in part due to the old freeways in Winston that reminds me of old urban freeways up North. Though I must admit, the area around Wake Forest is totally different than the area beyond WSSU on the East side. The area around WSSU is ghetto but it has a nice urban vibe.

[TowerRooster]

i used to live in winston-salem.  i felt that it had a very urban core, but somewhat decaying.  the city is doing great efforts to revitalize the downtown area and i think that other cities can learn from that.  maybe in 10 years, the decaying impression i got will be superceded with a very well revitalized downtown......  in my oppinion, in order for w-s downtown to trully suceed, is to find new corporations to locate there in the existing office space, or it will be a primarily residential downtown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it's obvious Winston is going to have to look somewhere outside of banking and tobacco. The high-tech industry, particularly bio-tech, seems to be the best prospect for the twin city these days. I remember hearing somewhere that they are trying to invest in that area. Hopefully the new research park will get the ball rolling there. They've got great intellectual resources with Wake Forest, WSSU, the NC School of Arts, and Salem, and a very historical city with an urban core ripe for revitalization, lots of beautiful neighborhoods and parks, and now a new Dell plant. If the players play smart and the cards fall right, Winston could have a bright future that hopefully lives up to and even outshines its rich past.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Don't shoot me, but I too think Winston feels more urban. In fact, it feels more Northern or Mid-Atlantic than Greensboro by far to me. Just my opinion.

[TowerRooster]

QUOTE(DCMetroRaleigh

@ Jul 7 2005, 12:41 AM)

Don't shoot me, but I too think Winston feels more urban. In fact, it feels more Northern or Mid-Atlantic than Greensboro by far to me. Just my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess my friends and I aren't crazy, after all.

[krazeeboi]

Winston-Salem's downtown is a underacheiver.  Winston has more unique buildings than downtown Greensboro,  but what do they do with them?  I get frustrated with the downtown redevelopment progress in Winston-Salem.  After dark, South Elm in Greensboro has a vibe to it that Winston-Salem lacks.  I can see a world of change in downtown Greensboro over the last five years,  hopefully Winston-Salem will realize its potential.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I really hope so too. Maybe Winston-Salem could take some notes from Greenville, SC as far as downtown redevelopment goes. I believe Winston-Salem has the brainpower to attract and hopefully retain new businesses. I wish it the best of luck.

[Beany]

Don't shoot me, but I too think Winston feels more urban. In fact, it feels more Northern or Mid-Atlantic than Greensboro by far to me. Just my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

pow! pow! pow! hehe

[dromulus]

Yeah, it's obvious Winston is going to have to look somewhere outside of banking and tobacco.  The high-tech industry, particularly bio-tech, seems to be the best prospect for the twin city these days.  I remember hearing somewhere that they are trying to invest in that area.  Hopefully the new research park will get the ball rolling there.  They've got great intellectual resources with Wake Forest, WSSU, the NC School of Arts, and Salem, and a very historical city with an urban core ripe for revitalization, lots of beautiful neighborhoods and parks, and now a new Dell plant.  If the players play smart and the cards fall right, Winston could have a bright future that hopefully lives up to and even outshines its rich past.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes. when i first moved there, i felt it had kind of a northern "rust belt" feel. with all the abondoned factory buildings, very visible driving south into the city on 52.

[dromulus]

Don't shoot me, but I too think Winston feels more urban. In fact, it feels more Northern or Mid-Atlantic than Greensboro by far to me. Just my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i'm sorry towerrooster, i meant to quote DCMetroRaleigh in my last post.

[twincity]

the difference between dowtown W-S and downtown Greensboro is the size. Greensboro's activity is concentrated along one corridor while Winston's is in 3 main areas. If the foot activity from trade st. and the bars/restaurants from Burke st. were along 4th, then W-S would be comparable with Greensboro. So, its hard to really since the vibrancy downtown when activity centers are so far apart.

W-S focuses on bringing jobs downtown and greensboro focuses on entertainment. both are doing a good job with residential. Also Greensboro has a more of a college town downtown. Most cities large or small that are surrounded by a high student population, have an abundance of clubs/bars/restaurants.

Come to downtown W-S at the end of the year. those abandoned builidngs on 4th will be demolished while 5 mixed-use buildings and 1 residential will be rising. The Nissen, Marriott and Embassy Suites projects will also be complete.

[dromulus]

the difference between dowtown W-S and downtown Greensboro is the size. Greensboro's activity is concentrated along one corridor  while Winston's is in 3 main areas.  If the foot activity from trade st. and the bars/restaurants from Burke st. were along 4th, then W-S would be comparable with Greensboro.  So, its hard to really since the vibrancy downtown when activity centers are so far apart.

W-S focuses on bringing jobs downtown and greensboro focuses on entertainment.  both are doing a good job with residential.  Also Greensboro has a more of a college town downtown.  Most cities large or small that are surrounded by a high student population, have an abundance of clubs/bars/restaurants.

Come to downtown W-S at the end of the year.  those abandoned builidngs on 4th will be demolished while 5 mixed-use buildings and 1 residential will be rising.  The Nissen, Marriott and Embassy Suites projects will also be complete.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have a friend who is working in the nissen project, but have not heard about the marriot or embassy. what is happening with those projects?

[triadcat]

Don't shoot me, but I too think Winston feels more urban. In fact, it feels more Northern or Mid-Atlantic than Greensboro by far to me. Just my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see why you would say that. I attended and finished at NCSA 2 years ago, so I knew the town pretty well. I am now in Greensboro at the moment. I think that Greensboro actually has a more urban feel downtown, while Winston-Salem feels more urban outside of downtown. My dad said that when he was in college his friend from Delaware would comment on how Greensboro's downtown reminded him of Philadelphia.......just a much smaller version. That said, I think Greensboro feels more like a city downtown, while W-S looks more like a city downtown.

[gangstadisciple6]

Our state tax dollars are used for a number of things but one are projections of what NC will look like in the future.  Here is some data for the year 2030 for what the state might look like.

Counties Ranked by Density

First  we have density ranked by people/sq mile.  Mecklenburg easily wins this one since it is a relatively small county geographically and one of the fastes growing.  One of the surprises is New Hanover county (Wilmington) will surpass Forsyth and Durham to become the 3rd most dense county in the state. 

1. Mecklenburg - 2,536.81
   
   
2. Wake - 1,640.50
   
   
3. New Hanover - 1,321.18
   
   
4. Durham - 1,159.76
   
   
5. Forsyth - 1,066.37
   
   
6. Guilford - 996.56
   
   
7. Cabarrus - 699.39
   
   
8. Gaston - 628.17
   

Counties Ranked by Population

They have been predicting for more than 30 years that Wake county would one day surpass Mecklenburg as the most populous county.  If the projections are correct that will be the case in 2030.  Wake & Mecklenburg will have no peers in the rest of the state for number of people as this ranking shows.

1. Wake - 1,343,283
   
   
2. Mecklenburg - 1,316,126
   
   
3. Guilford - 640,366
   
   
4. Forsyth - 432,744
   
   
5. Cumberland - 386,533
   
   
6. Durham - 333,637
   
   
7. Buncombe - 297,319
   
   
8. Union - 274,475
   
   
9. Johnston - 266,048
   
   
10. New Hanover - 260,143
    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I honestly dont think wake countys population will ever pass mecklengburgs. They do have more space but charlottes development uptown will add residential towers some 50 stories all the way down to twelve. While i see most of wake countys development is going into houses as i seen this past weekend. They may have more land but i sont see them useing it wisely. If you build upward which i see charlotte is doing now and probbaly will continue to do for at least 10 years can support more residents than what wake county is doing which is extending nieghborhoods and housing projects. I may be wrong.

[cityboi]

How can you possibly indicate Greensboro as urban and not Winston-Salem, which is more dense than Greensboro.  The basic difference between Winston-Salem and Greensboro is High Point.  I thought this was the Triad anyway.  Your comment is obviously bias, unfounded, and not supported by facts.

I agree, New Hanover will be very dense because it is a very small county in land area, and a retriement destination that is exploding.  In fact, I predict, Wilmington will become the State's sixth major city; actualy, it probably already is so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. Greensboro is more dense than Winston-Salem.

The evidence lies within the geoegraphic size of the two cities versus their populations. Geographically Winston-Salem is larger than Greensboro, yet Greensboro has about 40,000 more people than Winston-Salem.