PROPOSED: The "Power Block"

[ArtInRuins]

Nice, but again, more brick. The new tower needs to blend with the old tower, so its fine. But Mr Brissart's commentary isnt needed:

"The design for the addition resembles one I was shown before the original Westin was finished. I naturally assumed that, a decade later, the new developer, The Procaccianti Group, would dump it and hire a modernist to design something to conflict with the original -- something ugly, in accordance with the latest trends, hence appealing to journals of bad architecture. Instead, the new architect, Jung/Brannen Associates, of Boston, remained true to the original -- a higher order of creativity lost on most modernists."

Full editorial here

I really wish people would stop confusing moderism with post moderism. I grant you that moderism gave us some imposing, unfriendly architecture (Textron), but post modern architects have learned from the past. Mr Brussart's criticism on anything "new" is really getting old. Take this building for example:

The Seattle Public Library. I've had friends tell me that people in the whole city are excited about the space, the look, the way it is designed for the public, the way it catches sunlight, its open interior spaces, its clear organization, signage, everything. How often do people get excietd by a library?

More info, scemes, and animations of the SPL here

LETS THINK POSTMODERN!

[Mij]

Nice, but again, more brick. The new tower needs to blend with the old tower, so its fine. But Mr Brissart's commentary isnt needed:

"The design for the addition resembles one I was shown before the original Westin was finished. I naturally assumed that, a decade later, the new developer, The Procaccianti Group, would dump it and hire a modernist to design something to conflict with the original -- something ugly, in accordance with the latest trends, hence appealing to journals of bad architecture. Instead, the new architect, Jung/Brannen Associates, of Boston, remained true to the original -- a higher order of creativity lost on most modernists."

Full editorial here

I really wish people would stop confusing moderism with post moderism. I grant you that moderism gave us some imposing, unfriendly architecture (Textron), but post modern architects have learned from the past. Mr Brussart's criticism on anything "new" is really getting old. Take this building for example:

The Seattle Public Library. I've had friends tell me that people in the whole city are excited about the space, the look, the way it is designed for the public, the way it catches sunlight, its open interior spaces, its clear organization, signage, everything. How often do people get excietd by a library?

More info, scemes, and animations of the SPL here

LETS THINK POSTMODERN!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im sorry, but ewww... maybe ive been in providence for too long but that building is not my first choice of design....

[Cotuit]

Im sorry, but ewww... maybe ive been in providence for too long but that building is not my first choice of design....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think A.I.R. and I are almost exactly on the same page regarding the blend of traditional and modern that we would like to see in Providence. However I have to agree with Mij on the Seattle Library. At least from the outside, I hate that building, it may work well internally, but I wouldn't be happy to see that in Providence. Now RISDs Chase Centre, that I'm all about!

[Garris]

I think A.I.R. and I are almost exactly on the same page regarding the blend of traditional and modern that we would like to see in Providence. However I have to agree with Mij on the Seattle Library. At least from the outside, I hate that building, it may work well internally, but I wouldn't be happy to see that in Providence. Now RISDs Chase Centre, that I'm all about!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Seattle Library design is really controversial... Is it considered post modern though? From what I've seen, I wouldn't put it in that category at all. Those I've talked to who have seen it say that its impact in person is much different from what you'd imagine in photos... I heard some say it is a bit like the Twin Towers were in NYC. By themselves, somewhat brutal, maybe bordering on ugly, but they define the surrounding space to such a degree that the streetscape becomes difficult to envision without its defining presense.

I'm waiting to see it in person before deciding... The photos haven't excited me much at all. We don't need this in Providence.

In my mind, the upcoming RISD Chase Center is a much nicer traditional/modern mix.

- Garris

[pdxstreetcar]

I would consider the Seattle Public Library to be something like "New Modernism" or Post-Post Modernism, because I think of Post Modernism as Venturi, Johnson & Graves such as these:

The Seattle Library is one of my favorite buildings built within the last 50 years, but I dont think it would work in Providence. Its location in Seattle is amongst many 30+ story high rises. If it was plunked down in the middle of Providence I think it would be out of scale and an eyesore.

[Cotuit]

I heard some say it is a bit like the Twin Towers were in NYC.  By themselves, somewhat brutal, maybe bordering on ugly, but they define the surrounding space to such a degree that the streetscape becomes difficult to envision without its defining presense. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Comparing it's street presense to the Twin Towers isn't helping my opinion of it. If we could push the tragedy of September 11th aside for a minute, the World Trade Centre Plaza was one of the worst urban spaces in the country in my opinion.

[Recchia]

http://www.procgroup.com/featured-projects...providence.html

From Procaccianti's website, finally a nice clear color rendering.

[KRC]

http://www.procgroup.com/featured-projects...providence.html

From Procaccianti's website, finally a nice clear color rendering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the heads up! I wonder if we're starting to see the connection with the mayor's statement not too long ago about something big for LaSalle Square coming soon. That rendering doesn't look too bad. The fact that it borders the freeway and will help somewhat block it out from the street starts it on a positive note.

[Garris]

http://www.procgroup.com/featured-projects...providence.html

From Procaccianti's website, finally a nice clear color rendering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The key info...

"Renovation and conversion of the existing Hotel is scheduled to commence mid-summer, 2005 and be completed by early 2006. Construction of the new parking facility and tower component is scheduled to commence thereafter and be completed in 18-24 months thereafter."

- Garris

[provid]

Any render looks better than the current building

Thank you for the heads up!  I wonder if we're starting to see the connection with the mayor's statement not too long ago about something big for LaSalle Square coming soon.  That rendering doesn't look too bad.  The fact that it borders the freeway and will help somewhat block it out from the street starts it on a positive note.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[KRC]

The key info...

"Renovation and conversion of the existing Hotel is scheduled to commence mid-summer, 2005 and be completed by early 2006. Construction of the new parking facility and tower component is scheduled to commence thereafter and be completed in 18-24 months thereafter."

- Garris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trust me, I put it in my mental calendar as soon as I read it. If I've learned nothing else over the past few years with this current development wave, I have learned that target start dates are fluid at best. The next two I want to see enter the "point of no return" are the Westin addition and 110 Westminster.

[Garris]

Trust me, I put it in my mental calendar as soon as I read it.  If I've learned nothing else over the past few years with this current development wave, I have learned that target start dates are fluid at best.  The next two I want to see enter the "point of no return" are the Westin addition and 110 Westminster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So true... The Westin has a mandated start and finish date in the agreement, does it not? That, and the OTW folks seem eager to begin, so I don't think those two will be all that tardy. It's the "Power Block" building blocks that I'm worried most about. I'm still a bit suspicious that the whole "power block" concept was a carrot dangled out there to help the Group snag the Westin. Now that they've got it, I fear the "Block" might unravel very slowly...

- Garris

[Cotuit]

So true...  The Westin has a mandated start and finish date in the agreement, does it not?  That, and the OTW folks seem eager to begin, so I don't think those two will be all that tardy.  It's the "Power Block" building blocks that I'm worried most about.  I'm still a bit suspicious that the whole "power block" concept was a carrot dangled out there to help the Group snag the Westin.  Now that they've got it, I fear the "Block" might unravel very slowly...

- Garris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the Westin has mandated dates to meet. OTW has actually moved up their start date from December to November since their original announcement.

I think the Hilton conversion of the Holiday Inn is pretty damn solid. They want to upgrade that property so that they can make more money on the rooms. And the condos are a pretty obvious part of that. The Paolino property and the Atwells Site could be the wild cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see start dates on those as late as early '07. They may want to hold back a bit and see how sales go at WaterPlace, the Waterford (Westin), and OTW before getting started on new condo projects. The other wildcard on the Power Block is the Fogarty Hotel. The city wants the Fogarty Building site redeveloped, something will happen there, it's just a question of what and when.

[CtownMikey]

well.. when those power block towers rise .. starting about 2007 i guess.. maybe the market conditions will call for office space?!? and Procaccianti change the design to be combination towers instead of just condos and be built taller.. creating Providence's 2nd skyline?? maybe? (3 powerblock condos, along with Westin/Hilton currently underway)

[Liamlunchtray]

Per the Projo The Procaccianti Group has bought the Foggarty building as well as the rights to LaSalle Sq.

Full story here:

http://www.projo.com/digitalbulletin/conte...i.8c94b996.html

[Garris]

Per the Projo The Procaccianti Group has bought the Foggarty building as well as the rights to LaSalle Sq.

Full story here:

http://www.projo.com/digitalbulletin/conte...i.8c94b996.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the link!

Ok, so someone help me understand this... The "Power Block" is now supposed to consist of the following:

- Holiday Inn to Hilton Conversion (supposed to happen, does it still get attached to the Convention Center and get a new restaurant?)

- Hilton Tower (indefinitely on hold pending shakeout of the market, probably for a looong time)

- Gulf Gas lot tower (a "dream" right now)

- Fogarty Building (was supposed to be getting a banal hotel, but now it's all new again)

- LaSalle Square (nothing yet announced, but possibly a 150-250 foot building)

- Convention Center (done)

- The Dunk (on tap for a renovation and attachment to the convention center)

- Westin 2 (about to break ground)

Well, my first impression is that this is an enormous amount of space! Someone <cough>Cotuit<cough> should do a Google map illustration of the "Power Block."

My second impression is that a huge and hugely important swath of the city is now in the ownership or development hands of only one group. It's all up to them how wonderful or terrible or anything in between this all becomes. The pace of progress here will all depend upon their resources, and they'll only be able to do so much at once.

My third impression is that there is still a lot of city here with nothing going on (LaSalle, Public Safety, Gulf Gas, Hilton Tower). It's still all about potential for now... But what great potential it is.

- Garris

[eltron]

- Hilton Tower (indefinitely on hold pending shakeout of the market, probably for a looong time)

- Gulf Gas lot tower (a "dream" right now)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are these two not the same project?

[Baines]

Are these two not the same project?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. The Hilton condo tower (300-340') is the second phase of the Hoilday Inn-Hilton conversion. The Gulf station lot is a Paolino property that TPG will partner in for another condo (300-330').

As Garris said, this entire area is all now in the hands of one developer and at the mercy of the market. Best case scenario - the two projects above, another hotel on the Fogarty site, and LaSalle Sq for a business building.

I do think the Hilton condo and the Fogarty site hotel are very viable as the demand for both is still there and will increse in the next 12-20 months. As to the other two, I have no idea. But I do think TPG is being agressive and will push for it all to fly.

The hotel addition actually helps add to the activity of the Dunk and CC so it works hand in hand...more rooms draw more events, etc.

[Garris]

I do think the Hilton condo and the Fogarty site hotel are very viable as the demand for both is still there and will increse in the next 12-20 months. As to the other two, I have no idea. But I do think TPG is being agressive and will push for it all to fly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Baines, good analysis of the situation. I'm trying to think back, though... Wasn't there some date deadline for development of the Fogarty site, or am I confusing this with the Westin (or do they both have development deadlines)?

Can anything think of a similar situation in another city where one private entity had so much control?

- Garris

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...0.22433dd2.html

[eltron]

No. The Hilton condo tower (300-340') is the second phase of the Hoilday Inn-Hilton conversion. The Gulf station lot is a Paolino property that TPG will partner in for another condo (300-330').

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we positive about this? I thought that Paolino might be teaming up with Proc. to do the Hilton TOWER. I don't see where the renderings we have seen of that project would go on the Holiday inn site without including the Paolino site, but maybe I'm dead wrong. Sounds like a moot point right now anyway...

[AriPVD]

Paolino. Enough said. This is all pretty shameless and really speaks volumes about why developers have a bad name. Mesollela for example. He bought the development rights to sit on them, wait for the rights to appreciate, and then sell. It's no different than buying an option in the stock market. Don't get me started on Paolino...it's all rhetoric. We'll see if Proc. (who seems a little too deeply entagled with these guys to have golden intentions) can redeem their collectve reputations.

[Garris]

Paolino.  Enough said.  This is all pretty shameless and really speaks volumes about why developers have a bad name.  Mesollela for example.  He bought the development rights to sit on them, wait for the rights to appreciate, and then sell.  It's no different than buying an option in the stock market.  Don't get me started on Paolino...it's all rhetoric.  We'll see if Proc. (who seems a little too deeply entagled with these guys to have golden intentions) can redeem their collectve reputations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ack, what a mess... Ari, what you said about it being similar to stock options is something I was thinking about yesterday. Could that be the purpose of all this? Develop part of the Power Block (probably the safest parts), hopefully have it be successful, and then that will hopefully raise the value of the other land for future sale rather than development? Kind of how investment groups swoop in, buy a company, spruce it up, and then sell it off for profit?

Here are some quotes from the article (I was right about the deadline):

"Under the purchase and sale agreement Mesolella worked out with the city, he has until Sept. 1 to buy the Fogarty Building and begin construction."

And they apparently are both supposed to be hotels, but not it appears that they're willing to consider other uses:

"The purchase and sale documents on both the Fogarty Building and the old public safety building stipulate that hotels be built on both locations, Deller said. But the city has asked The Procaccianti Group to analyze the market to determine whether another use -- such as office space -- may be more viable, Deller said."

It's going to take a while to sort this all out. I don't think we'll see any movement on any of this any time soon .

- Garris

[Baines]

Are we positive about this? I thought that Paolino might be teaming up with Proc. to do the Hilton TOWER. I don't see where the renderings we have seen of that project would go on the Holiday inn site without including the Paolino site, but maybe I'm dead wrong. Sounds like a moot point right now anyway...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe it is solid. I understood that the Hilton tower has nothing to do with Paolino and the Gulf station site. TPG website rendering of the Hilton tower looks and reads to be located on the current site...I guess we stand by.

[Cotuit]

Are we positive about this? I thought that Paolino might be teaming up with Proc. to do the Hilton TOWER. I don't see where the renderings we have seen of that project would go on the Holiday inn site without including the Paolino site, but maybe I'm dead wrong. Sounds like a moot point right now anyway...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The renderings we've seen are for the condo tower on the Holiday Inn site, the tower would be where the parking garage at the Holiday Inn currently is. We've not seen any renderings here of what would be built on the Gulf Station site (55 Broadway).

It seems that both project are now on hold. Although the convertion of the Holiday In to a Hilton seems to be on course. I was in the Holiday Inn today and there are renderings of the new lobby (with Hilton logos all over the renderings) in the lobby, as well as swatches of what the surfaces will be.

Here are some quotes from the article (I was right about the deadline):

"Under the purchase and sale agreement Mesolella worked out with the city, he has until Sept. 1 to buy the Fogarty Building and begin construction."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of many deadlines this site has had, always Mesolllola seems to find a loophole in the deadlines. The last deadline was June or July, but something allowed him to push that back to September. Sh*t or get off the pot, there are plenty of developers that are ready to give our convention center another hotel.