Blount Street Commons

[Nindec]

Not to be overly contrary, but freeways of that sort are horrible, horrible ideas. They were very popular in the 60s and 70s, and very few groups could stop them from slicing through neighbourhoods and communities. They proved to be huge barriers to interconnected growth and mark a commitment towards a solely autodependent city. In my opinion, they are one of the (admittedly many) factors which contributed to many downtown

[foodpainter]

I agree- a freeway through Oakwood would have been terrible.

People are quick to criticize the lack of growth/development in downtown Raleigh, but the people who live in Oakwood are the ones who have invested money in their homes and made this part of downtown beautiful, livable, and walkable: all of the characterisitcs we want in our downtown in the first place.

[JunktionFET]

I get the feeling that some of the Oakwood residents really ought to move out to the exurbs onto a nice quiet cul-de-sac. I get that impression from a number of things--one of them being the sign on Blount St as you enter downtown threatening thru-traffic. Heaven forbid people in an allegedly urban center use the street grid, especially a street which connects to a major artery in Raleigh.

[richthofen]

Personally I think it would have been a tragedy to have built a freeway there; enough turn-of-the century homes were taken down as it was. I seem to be a minority on the subject, but...that's what I feel.

And as far as highway access to downtown, while it's not a proper highway, Western Blvd./MLK is a pretty high-volume street that has access to 440 at one point and downtown at another....though I guess the quantity of stoplights between A and B are troublesome.

[bikwillie]

This was in today's N&O. I know there is probably already a thread on this, but it seemed worthy of discussion.

http://www.newsobserver.com/281/story/391525.html

[Jones_]

This was in today's N&O. I know there is probably already a thread on this, but it seemed worthy of discussion.

http://www.newsobserver.com/281/story/391525.html

Nice to seee it seems like it will be residential heavy...several hundred housing units could equal 2000 residents which would be the bulk of the 7500 downtown residents the DRA sees by 2009. While the CBD will always retain the look of a highrise office park, this development along with glenwood souths natural progression gives downtown some needed compact lowrise activity. Attention should now be given to remaking Peace Street between Blount and Glenwood.

[Transplant]

Nice to seee it seems like it will be residential heavy...several hundred housing units could equal 2000 residents which would be the bulk of the 7500 downtown residents the DRA sees by 2009. While the CBD will always retain the look of a highrise office park, this development along with glenwood souths natural progression gives downtown some needed compact lowrise activity. Attention should now be given to remaking Peace Street between Blount and Glenwood.

I COMPLETELY agree. Although, Peace should be remade all the way to Cameron Village.

[pack-man]

Peace could be a nice road with some serious help.

[ncwebguy]

Biking on Peace from Glenwood to the Wilmington/Salisbury/Halifax intersection is crazy in either direction, and is almost a suicide mission along the north side of Peace, where the Capital Blvd. intersection comes into play. Going east, the elevation drops dramatically from Glenwood to West, and gradually from West to the west side of Capital. Then it's a long uphill past Finch's, under Capitol, and along the state government parking lots. Vehicular traffic is not too bad on weekends, but is still not bike friendly, and the sidewalk under Captiol (and the railroad crossing near West) always seems to have broken glass.

There are several neat shops in that stretch of Peace -- light fixtures, bicycles and skateboards, camera equipment, shoe repair, Finch's, the Jersey Mikes/cleaners/Aquariumm complex (formerly typewriter sales and service), and Sunflowers. Sunflowers serves as a landmark for the Seaboard complex - Logans, Red Pin, the wine shop, and Seaboard Station, which will have a grocery store, Galetea moving from cameron village, and who knows what else. The state also owns some land here (department of insurance offices) it hopefully will sell off as more activity starts to come to the area.

As it is now, it is not too pedestrian friendly. Unfortunately, the residents of Capitol Park (formerly Halifax Court) can't really afford most of what is available in the area. I don't know if Peace College students could afford it, or don't want to be bothered. Also, it looks like Pilot Mill, Mordecai, and Oakwood residents can't be bothered to make the walk. I don't know if this is still fear of the crime that was rampant through Halifax Court or just being in the habit of using the automobile to go grocery shopping, etc.

From what I can tell, Oakwood residents want the houses to be restored and the parking lots turned into mansions. I hope this isn't the case, and it doesn't seem to be what LNR has in mind for the area, but we'll see. The school on Person Street was the first to be desegregated in the city, and one of the first in the state. Now it is used as an old folks home. This may have potential for apartment/condo redevelopment as well, and should be preserved in some form. I think 3-5 story development, with street level retail hiding interior parking decks would be a neat little district to supplement the existing North Person with Krispy Kreme, the drug store, Conti's, the Louisiana market (though may just be a cooking school now), etc. With just one thousand new residents, let alone two, and redevloping the two northern quadrants of the Person/Franklin intersection (and maybe even the southwest) even more residents could be added to the area without losing any historical character. I just hope Oakwood/Mordecai residents can see how this is a good thing, like the developments near Boyland Heights.

[orulz]

Biking on Peace from Glenwood to the Wilmington/Salisbury/Halifax intersection is crazy in either direction, and is almost a suicide mission along the north side of Peace, where the Capital Blvd. intersection comes into play. Going east, the elevation drops dramatically from Glenwood to West, and gradually from West to the west side of Capital. Then it's a long uphill past Finch's, under Capitol, and along the state government parking lots. Vehicular traffic is not too bad on weekends, but is still not bike friendly, and the sidewalk under Captiol (and the railroad crossing near West) always seems to have broken glass.

I agree that biking on Peace east of Glenwood is not fun. That's a shame, since west of Glenwood it's an extremely bike-friendly street. The whole Capital/Peace interchange needs work. The railroad bridge between Glenwood and West is too constricting. The whole Halifax / Peace loopy intersection is a terrible design and a waste of land - the state should get rid of the loop and develop the land along Peace as an extension of the Blount Street neighborhood.

From what I can tell, Oakwood residents want the houses to be restored and the parking lots turned into mansions. I hope this isn't the case, and it doesn't seem to be what LNR has in mind for the area, but we'll see. The school on Person Street was the first to be desegregated in the city, and one of the first in the state. Now it is used as an old folks home. This may have potential for apartment/condo redevelopment as well, and should be preserved in some form. I think 3-5 story development, with street level retail hiding interior parking decks would be a neat little district to supplement the existing North Person with Krispy Kreme, the drug store, Conti's, the Louisiana market (though may just be a cooking school now), etc. With just one thousand new residents, let alone two, and redevloping the two northern quadrants of the Person/Franklin intersection (and maybe even the southwest) even more residents could be added to the area without losing any historical character. I just hope Oakwood/Mordecai residents can see how this is a good thing, like the developments near Boyland Heights.

I'm pretty sure we'll see more than just 8 blocks of mansions. 3-5 story buildings along Peace and Person, and even bigger buildings along Wilmington facing the state government complex are probably in the offing.

Hopefully we'll see some in-depth plans once the deal is sealed.

[bdp]

when i lived in the raleigh apartments next to broughton, i rode my bike up peace all the time. I had to be careful of course, but i didn't think it was so bad (this was just 6 months ago). I agree that there needs to be some more connectivity among all the emerging 'districts' surrounding the downtown core. It will just take time...

[bikwillie]

I had the opportunity to hear Mayor Meeker speak at a luncheon a couple of months back and I asked about the Blount Street project. He said he thought that LNR was pretty much a done deal. He mentioned two things (and given I understood correctly) that were news to me. First he said that all of the state owned house along wilmington street and Peace will be moved to lots on Blount. ALl of the homes will be restored and sold, and vacant lots will be developed as well, making Blount Street Raleigh's main street of grand old homes.

Second he mentioned a 5-6 story condo building in the parking lot facing the Revenue building on Wilmington St. He also mentioned mixed use stuff where some of the other houses had been (I'm assuming the lots across from Peace College)

[Transplant]

Blount Street Area will be a great addition if done correctly. As long as it doesn't get built like a suburban apartment building, such as those polluting N. Raleigh.

As far as the train tracks over Peace, by Glenwood.... Is there any chance that that bridge could be removed and the trains that use that portion of track get routed onto the other tracks. Those which are at Street level?

[Jones_]

Blount Street Area will be a great addition if done correctly. As long as it doesn't get built like a suburban apartment building, such as those polluting N. Raleigh.

As far as the train tracks over Peace, by Glenwood.... Is there any chance that that bridge could be removed and the trains that use that portion of track get routed onto the other tracks. Those which are at Street level?

Agreed on the needed style of buildings (non-suburban). IMO White Oak Properties messed up a great oppurtunity on north Person when they went with the design they did for Governors Square, they are just like Atlantic Place (I realize Atlantic Place is newer).

Only slightly related, there has been talk about the rail yardby the Amtrak station being moved elsewhere. On Peace, I have never had a huge problem with the train bridges, but have long mused on how to get Capital and Peace at the same grade...split Capital into northbound and southbound roadways from Peace south to the existing grid. Would free up all that wasted interchange land for buildings...buildings that would tie together Glenwood South and Blount Street....Also need to get the State to front Peace with some buildings (probably need to split apart the collector streets in front of the Archdale Building) to hide that old parking deck and to make Peace more interesting to pedestrians.

[orulz]

As far as the train tracks over Peace, by Glenwood.... Is there any chance that that bridge could be removed and the trains that use that portion of track get routed onto the other tracks. Those which are at Street level?

I assume you mean trains that run on the elevated tracks that cross Peace between Glenwood and West, and that you want to reroute them to the tracks that cross West and Harrington at grade, and cross Peace on a bridge east of Capital?

In the near-term, getting rid of the line along Glenwood would be impossible, because that track is the connection from the NC Railroad to Glenwood Yard, Norfolk Southern's main switching yard in the Raleigh area. The tracks east of Capital are owned by CSX. CSX and Norfolk Southern are competitors and are not likely to share tracks with each other. NCDOT and the city might be able to broker a deal where Norfolk-Southern trains use the CSX line for a year while a new bridge is built, but NS will not give up their line so easily.

Long term, it's definitely possible. Glenwood Yard is small and Norfolk Southern has little room for expansion. They might relocate to somewhere with more land, probably southeast of town, and sell the current yard for redevelopment. Without the yard there, they would definitely consider doing exactly what you propose, selling the line between the wye and Edgeton (which is where the CSX and NS tracks cross back over each other, under the Atlantic Avenue bridge.

NCDOT might also buy the entire CSX line from the downtown wye to the Virginia state line as part of SEHSR. That would be a good opportunity to make the improvements so that Norfolk Southern can share it to access to their Knightdale/Zebulon/Wilson line.

I'd like to see the line re-used as transit rather than just torn down. Glenwood Yard could be redeveloped as first-class TOD, and it could catalyze redevelopment along Capital Boulevard. Sort of like Raleigh's version of the Atlanta Beltline.

[bdp]

geez.. how do you guys know all this stuff??

[ncwebguy]

From preliminary drawings I've seen, it looks like there will be mixed use development on the southwest corner of Peace and Person (getting rid of the state fueling station), continuing along both streets south and west. I don't know how far Person will go, but if they're moving houses to front Blount, that will leave the south side of Peace street open all the way down to Halifax if they get rid of that DMV office at Blount and Peace. The Bed and Breakfast would start the "millionaire's row" down blount to the Govenor's mansion, with 5-7 story buildings along Wilmington, and 3-5 stories along Person and Peace. The south cross street, lane, has houses already on it, so it may not need to be touched.

Between Blount and Wilmington is the Henry Clay oak, supposedly where the then president wrote a speech. There's a small marker on one of the cross streets, i think near the Lt. Govenor's house/office. There was talk a theater company might get to rennovate and use the playhouse behind the school (murphy?) off Blount as well, but I don't know if that survived the negotiations.

Fingers crossed in hoping this projects is well done and acts as a stimulus to add a 24/7 vibe to the northeast quadrant of downtown. If these developers were selected to work on Boston's waterfront, they must be doing something right.

[Transplant]

From preliminary drawings I've seen, it looks like there will be mixed use development on the southwest corner of Peace and Person (getting rid of the state fueling station), continuing along both streets south and west. I don't know how far Person will go, but if they're moving houses to front Blount, that will leave the south side of Peace street open all the way down to Halifax if they get rid of that DMV office at Blount and Peace. The Bed and Breakfast would start the "millionaire's row" down blount to the Govenor's mansion, with 5-7 story buildings along Wilmington, and 3-5 stories along Person and Peace. The south cross street, lane, has houses already on it, so it may not need to be touched.

Between Blount and Wilmington is the Henry Clay oak, supposedly where the then president wrote a speech. There's a small marker on one of the cross streets, i think near the Lt. Govenor's house/office. There was talk a theater company might get to rennovate and use the playhouse behind the school (murphy?) off Blount as well, but I don't know if that survived the negotiations.

Fingers crossed in hoping this projects is well done and acts as a stimulus to add a 24/7 vibe to the northeast quadrant of downtown. If these developers were selected to work on Boston's waterfront, they must be doing something right.

Any chance of getting some of these teasers out here?

[ncwebguy]

I think I've seen these pics a couple of different places, but here's one that is up now:

Blount Street drawings

(scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page)

The top pic appears to be Wilmington headed north toward the Peace street Junction. It would

be nice if Peace had seperate intersections with Wilmington (the dead end at peace forming a nice view of Peace College campus), Halifax (dead end, creating a new block of infill on south side of Peace), and Harrington (in line with the existing block toward Seaboard station!) The Wilmington Street houses have been moved once already when making way for the highway that never was, and there are lots on Blount that need filling.

The middle pic has the big "Krispy Kreme" sign poking in from the right to give a landmark.

The bottom pic is the Lt. Govenor's house/office, looking south down Blount.

[Transplant]

Thanks!

[Jones_]

I think I've seen these pics a couple of different places, but here's one that is up now:

Blount Street drawings

(scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page)

The top pic appears to be Wilmington headed north toward the Peace street Junction. It would

be nice if Peace had seperate intersections with Wilmington (the dead end at peace forming a nice view of Peace College campus), Halifax (dead end, creating a new block of infill on south side of Peace), and Harrington (in line with the existing block toward Seaboard station!) The Wilmington Street houses have been moved once already when making way for the highway that never was, and there are lots on Blount that need filling.

The middle pic has the big "Krispy Kreme" sign poking in from the right to give a landmark.

The bottom pic is the Lt. Govenor's house/office, looking south down Blount.

Definitely with you on the street reconnects. I am also glad to see the historic houses being regrouped in one area....the renderings look pretty nice too and will combine nicely with the area north of Krispy Kreme.

[ncwebguy]

I go down person to peace to capitol to wade ave every morning for my commute, and noticed the houses would *not* obstruct bringing wilmington to peace street. There is a parking lot in front right now, between the wilmington "curve" and peace, so minimial green space would be lost there. I *won't* miss the surface parking lots and state gas station that occupy the space on Person from Murphey School to Peace.

When is/was the city or state supposed to have something signed to get this started? The community has been left in the dark long enough!

[Jones_]

I go down person to peace to capitol to wade ave every morning for my commute, and noticed the houses would *not* obstruct bringing wilmington to peace street. There is a parking lot in front right now, between the wilmington "curve" and peace, so minimial green space would be lost there. I *won't* miss the surface parking lots and state gas station that occupy the space on Person from Murphey School to Peace.

When is/was the city or state supposed to have something signed to get this started? The community has been left in the dark long enough!

I will provide ab update soon...I happen to play soccer with a guy who is on the committee that selected the developer for this project.

[Subway Scoundrel]

As far as the train tracks over Peace, by Glenwood.... Is there any chance that that bridge could be removed and the trains that use that portion of track get routed onto the other tracks. Those which are at Street level?

Keep the tressle. It adds character to that part of the city. No reason to get rid of it. I hope it is standing in 100 years. Plus, the trainyard is in 5 points and they use that yard every day. That is the only track out of there.

[Transplant]

It's always interesting to here others ideas of character, historic, etc..... I wouldn't consider the bridge over a single road character. Nor (as I've read in other forums) do I consider the Warehouse District Historic. Yes, it has old warehouses, but until I hear that George Washinton Slept there, or Lincoln helped build it, its nothing but warehouses.

As far as the tracks over Peace, I was suggesting its removal as the area it was brought up as to non-auto use. I wouldn't think that its removal would be anytime soon, but if it could be (apparently not, due to economics), I'd be all for it. As i would also be all for a lowering of the Peace/Glenwood intersection, say 3 ft, to make site lines better. Again, I don't think this would ever happen.

I consider myself to be progressive. So, back to the Threads Subject....

I would completely agree with Jones133's suggestion for Realigned roads intersecting Peace.