Blount Street Commons

[ncwebguy]

The state's reluctance to sell its parcels is "Raleigh dragging its feet"? I learn something new every day! The thing Raleigh could control - rezoning approval - happened pretty quickly. When did this turn from a discussion board into a misinformation board?

LNR's website shows a decent number of mixed use developments, though most of them are a lot larger than the 21 acres of Blount Street Commons.

Being "local" to CA and Miami has not hurt LNR's developments in Charlotte, Tampa, Denver, Virginia, etc. yet that makes all the difference here? No. Part of LNR's problem is they are overleveraged in the *quick* (1.5 year) downturn of the real estate market, are picking and choosing their projects, and are getting out of the way here. Nothing more, nothing less.

According to their website, LNR was taken private in early 2005 by Cerebus Capital, which has been in a world of hurt recently (Chrystler, other real estate) and can't pull it off the way they once thought.

If they held on, we would be looking at one cluster of townhouses across from one carrige house near the existing Bed and Breakfast. The AIA project is still going to happen and Burning Coal Theater is now open. Everything else can be built by someone else who has the resources to pull it off, local or otherwise. Not sure who that "someone else" will be, or *when* that will happen, but it will be sooner and not later.

[Jones_]

Well, LNR may be pulling out at some point, but in the last couple of days a second set of 4 rowhomes started going up. Even if just this block gets built out, thats a big improvement over the crappy parking lot that was there.

[dmccall]

They had Doug Redford on the project. It was his labor of love and he's from here. I don't know how an out-of-town company could have any more close, emotional ties to a project....and it's not like the local guys are slam dunks for projects. If you shun out of town money, you'll end up with a really second-rate place.

[JeffC]

I guess the previous examples I was thinking of with my crack about out of town companies were (1) the original developers of Hannover Square and (2) that out of town company originally hired to manage the renovated City Market in late 80s/early 90s and who were an absolute fiasco until York was eventually brought in...

[miamiblue]

I got an email from BSC saying that they will be having an open house for their rowhomes this Saturday from 11-5 where you'll be able to tour the furnished model. They are also touting "3% Interest Rates* and FREE Homeowners Dues on Select Homes!" It also mentioned in the list of features that the rowhomes will be "wired for electric cars".

[DPK]

It also mentioned in the list of features that the rowhomes will be "wired for electric cars".

So the garages will have outlets? I'm pretty sure that the receptacle is just a standard 3 prong.

Unless they're referring to the voltage of 220 vs 110.

[ChiefJoJo]

I went back and reiterated whether LNR still plans to sell it's stake in BSC after the first phase and the agent said he'd never heard that. We shall see.

The urban town homes with rear alleys and garages are exactly the type of home I can see becoming more popular in the area as an alternative to condos and single family. They are nice... not luxurious, but very nice... and of course you can't beat the location.

Unless I'm missing something (& they aren't complete yet) but the carriage home designs make no sense to me whatsoever. The garages face the alley, but there's no front door... only a side door out by the heat pump. They aren't attractive and eliminate the reason to have the alley in the first place... that it's supposed to access the REAR, not the front. The only positive is the large master suite/bathroom on the top floor.

[Euphorius]

Wouldn't the carriage homes be kind of hidden when/if Person Point, or whatever that building on the corner facing Krispy Kreme is called , gets built? Maybe they figured they really didn't need a front door since people could just access the interior through the garage. Not very inviting to guests though, I must say.

I really hope that agent is right. I would love to see BSC get built out as planned. It wasn't a great plan. But, a very good one, and certainly much better than how it looked before.

[Jones_]

My guess is that the carriage houses were supposed to look like the actual carriage houses of the older houses lining Blount Street. Most of those homes would have had them at one time, two or three still do (think Tucker Carriage House off Hillsborough and St Mary's). A typical such building had its storage area below and an apartment above. There is also such a house behind Montford Hall that had its lower carriage storage area bricked in for two more apartments.

[askmisterbrown]

A reporter for the Oakwood News contacted LNR about the rumor that LNR was selling its options on phases 3 and 4 (the blocks south of Polk St.) and the LNR rep denied it. However, LNR's timetable for purchasing those blocks has been extended for up to five years. In return, the state can still use the parking lots.

The alley will serve as the front of the carriage houses, since the other sides of them are the back yards of the "big houses." What seems slightly strange to me is that the alley is supposed to serve as the rear of the row houses -- they front on the little green area between them and the row of buildings that will face Person St. So the fronts of the carriage houses will face the backs of the row houses, and the fronts of the row houses will face the backs of the buildings on Person St. Oh, well.

I am still sanguine about the development; it will happen, only not so quick. It may change somewhat, and the changes might be improvements.

Jones, I wondered what was up with that house behind Mountford Hall. What you say makes sense. That house looks as old as Mountford Hall, and the brick first floor sits right on ground level. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Euphorius]

The News and observer is reporting that Anderson Homes, of which Vanguard homes is a subsidiary, has filed for bankruptcy. Vanguard is the company that is building the row homes and carriage homes in BSC. I wonder if Vanguard was going to construct more than just those, and how it will affect the development if so.

Here is the N&O link http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1445840.html

[Gard]

^

It will briefly halt construction of them, if that. Anderson homes filed for chapter 11, which is more or less court guided debt restructuring and doesn't generally affect day-to-day operations. It also does not mention whether its subsidiaries are affected. In many cases, the subsidiaries of a company are not effected at all. Subsidiaries are separate legal entities where more than 50% of the business is owned by another single entity. If Anderson homes were to go completely under, creditors would merely sell Anderson home's stake in Vanguard to another company to pay debts. Vanguard is basically a completely separate company that happens to have 100% of its stock held by 1 other company. This is a very common business arrangement that allows the "parent" company to quickly sell off its stake if trouble hits, be it because the subsidiary is doing really bad or the parent needs cash. Also, if a subsidiary were to go under, the creditors of the subsidiary could not legally go after the assets of the parent, thus shielding them from responsibility for the subsidiary's actions.

Nueberger Berman is a good example of this. The company was a subsidiary of Lehman Brothers, but despite Lehman's troubles, remained very profitable and was unaffected by their collapse. The shares in the subsidiary were merely sold by the creditors of Lehman.

[Euphorius]

The article actually says that Vanguard, Bridgewater Land Resource, and Land resource are the subsidiaries of Anderson that are filing. I hope you are right though, and that this will not affect BSC.

[DPK]

They're offering a $12k incentive if you purchase by April 30th:

[Jones_]

The shell for next 4 was stopped cold turkey. Without a roof that particle board won't hold up long.

[Jones_]

Construction on those 4 partly finished units has resumed. I am not sure who is actually developing this project now... I hope it can at least creep along. At least one unit has been occupied. Also one of the old homes on Blount actually had a Sold sign in the yard. The little one story pink house was the last one I thought would get bought so I hope it goes through. Its actually pretty big inside iirc...something over 2000 sqft.

[DPK]

Construction on those 4 partly finished units has resumed. I am not sure who is actually developing this project now... I hope it can at least creep along.

I wouldn't buy any of those 4 unfinished units. It's been give/take 5 months now that they've been sitting mostly unprotected from the elements out there. Who knows what odd problems may creep up on them over time. Nooooo thanks.

[ChiefJoJo]

This article confirms Jones' observations that BSC is moving ahead once again. i still think these will end up being a good deal in the long term. It's just going to take a lot longer to build out the community.

[Glenwood]

This article confirms Jones' observations that BSC is moving ahead once again. i still think these will end up being a good deal in the long term. It's just going to take a lot longer to build out the community.

The good news for Blount Street is that construction of the row homes has commenced with the assistance of Capital Bank offering deeply discounted interest rates, minimum down payment, and no MIP. Once the incomplete units are finished, development will begin on the remainder of that phase with Capital's same program.

Positive momentum for the project was building as a local developer entered into contract discussions to develop 160+ apartments on the densest portion of the site. However, that deal died in early August due to financing.

[RALNATIVE]

The good news for Blount Street is that construction of the row homes has commenced with the assistance of Capital Bank offering deeply discounted interest rates, minimum down payment, and no MIP. Once the incomplete units are finished, development will begin on the remainder of that phase with Capital's same program.

Positive momentum for the project was building as a local developer entered into contract discussions to develop 160+ apartments on the densest portion of the site. However, that deal died in early August due to financing.

Welcome, and thanks for the update.

[Jones_]

I think its significant that a local bank is willing to step in and help this along. Their City provides their livelihood obviously, but I had always wished to see them doing more, especially downtown. Buying in BSC now, not only supports your City's downtown with density, new property tax base and creation of a neighborhood where there was none recently, but it supports a locally headquartered bank. One day Capital Bank might be the company that builds us that 50 story building...

[RALNATIVE]

One day Capital Bank might be the company that builds us that 50 story building...

I'm thinking that First Citizens might be the one, especially if they keep expanding at their current rate. They're following the same aggressive growth pattern of Bank of America and First Union back in the day.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I'm thinking that First Citizens might be the one, especially if they keep expanding at their current rate. They're following the same aggressive growth pattern of Bank of America and First Union back in the day.

Not to get off topic, but IMHO, First Citizens Bank will NEVER build a building in downtown Raleigh. The have there new buildings at North Hills and will probably stay at NH's. Plus they own all of that land in that area...and that's where there peeps are!

[Jones_]

Not to get off topic, but IMHO, First Citizens Bank will NEVER build a building in downtown Raleigh. The have there new buildings at North Hills and will probably stay at NH's. Plus they own all of that land in that area...and that's where there peeps are!

staying off topic...I think this as well....First Citizens is the Bob Winston of banks...conservative, poo poo downtown, maybe show slight interest after everyone else has demonstrated downtown's viability...

[RALNATIVE]

staying off topic...I think this as well....First Citizens is the Bob Winston of banks...conservative, poo poo downtown, maybe show slight interest after everyone else has demonstrated downtown's viability...

If i'm not mistaken, there has recently been a change in the executive leadership at First Citizens, and they are much more forward thinking it seems. If they continue to grow aggessively, begin to need more Class A office space, and become interested in raising their company's profile, a tower in downtown may not be out of the question.