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POSTPONED: 110 Westminster Street

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EPBOY Whistle-Stop

EPBOY

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I think we all know, including the people behind 110 west., that if we added those 40 or 50 feet... ( lets say that translates to 4 more floors of condos) that the economy in providence can definately handle it. Don't you all agree?? So what is the issue with the height??

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It would be kind of cool to see some of these projects competing in a good old fashion height war. It would definatly add another element of excitment!

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Airwaves Unincorporated Area

Airwaves

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There's no doubt that the market is hot here right now, but there is still a degree of risk, there's a lot in the pipeline right now. Everything coming out of the planning department right now points to height not being an issue, but they still need to make sure they can sell. I think it all depends on the pre-sale interest they are getting right now. The Cosmopolitan and the Westminster lofts sold quick, but there was no competition. We have 3 towers in the Power Block, 2 at WaterPlace, the New Westin Tower, OneTen, Federal Hill Rialto, Federal Hill Knight Street, an expanded Grant's Block, numerous projects on the East Side, stuff in the pipeline in Olneyville, scattered stuff in South Providence, Conley Wharf, Capital Cove, Pawtucket... There is A LOT coming to Providence, I think it's still a risky market considering how much is coming. No ones exactly sure what we can absorb, and that damn bubble is hanging over all the developers heads.

Not to mention the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room that everyone has stopped talking about... another September 11th.

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Cotuit - You could not be more right - well stated. While there is clearly a significant urban luxury condo market here waiting to be tapped into, it is completely untested (ground-up $90 million style projects). While it is exciting to see all of this happening at once - there is major risk involved for the developer and to simply "believe" the market is THAT deep is dangerous. Some of the projects talked about - from the Cosmopolitan (which as I understand has never completely sold out) and even the Armory Revival (corner of Steeple and S. Main - not above Mill's) took a long time to sell. For the developer, those last 1, 2 or 3 units that aren't selling is the difference between making or losing money on a project. It's simple economics that are a reality the developer has to face (especially the last guy in - in this case OneTen). One cannot "wish" the market to be there just because this is a great city and these are great projects. We're talking big numbers, big egos and big competition in a fairly uncertain market - never mind the impact of an unexpected major hit on the economy.

As to the height issue - it's a non-issue. If the project works at 300' in a spot zoned for 200' - the building is going to be 300' - regardless of who complains. The decision-makers of the city want to see projects happen and will do whatever it takes to make sure they do. However, with the Westin and OneTen towers, I have a feeling it's a bit more of a bragging-rights issue than economics as to which one is taller. Having said all of this - this is an exciting time in little PVD and I personally hope each project announced actually happens and that they're all major successes.

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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Cotuit - You could not be more right - well stated.  While there is clearly a significant urban luxury condo market here waiting to be tapped into, it is completely untested (ground-up $90 million style projects).  While it is exciting to see all of this happening at once - there is major risk involved for the developer and to simply "believe" the market is THAT deep is dangerous.  Some of the projects talked about - from the Cosmopolitan (which as I understand has never completely sold out) and even the Armory Revival (corner of Steeple and S. Main - not above Mill's) took a long time to sell.  For the developer, those last 1, 2 or 3 units that aren't selling is the difference between making or losing money on a project.  It's simple economics that are a reality the developer has to face (especially the last guy in - in this case OneTen).  One cannot "wish" the market to be there just because this is a great city and these are great projects.  We're talking big numbers, big egos and big competition in a fairly uncertain market - never mind the impact of an unexpected major hit on the economy.

As to the height issue - it's a non-issue.  If the project works at 300' in a spot zoned for 200' - the building is going to be 300' - regardless of who complains.  The decision-makers of the city want to see projects happen and will do whatever it takes to make sure they do.  However, with the Westin and OneTen towers, I have a feeling it's a bit more of a bragging-rights issue than economics as to which one is taller.  Having said all of this - this is an exciting time in little PVD and I personally hope each project announced actually happens and that they're all major successes.

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"little" PVD...is that not the crippling flaw that Rhode Islanders (at least Providence)have to shed!...travel to other cities and you will find Providence is not "little" and can get much bigger with poweful use of underutilized real estate.

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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""As to saturation in a 1.7 M pop metro..no way...at least 400 more downcity units can be filled in 2 years...people want out of Boston metro""

was this comment meaning that people want out of the boston metro.. including the providence area??? it confused me the way it was worded

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Out of the Boston Metro...there is consderable forces (real estate, traffic, livablity) that is causing a decrease in Boston population.

The Boston Metro does not include the Providence Metro...or visa versa. The line runs at about Foxboro. Providence is not in Boston's sphere of influence and needs to assert itself in this 2 year window of opportunity.

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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Maybe the people in fox point are protesting that the hieght might couse shadows for the trees they want to put near the highway!

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The people of Providence need to wake up now and reject those that see it as a small scale city...

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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428ft. Bank of America ("Superman") Building

410ft. One Financial Plaza ("Hospital Trust Tower")

400+ft. OneTen Westminster

???ft. Second Westin Tower

329ft. Westin Providence

311ft. Textron Tower

285ft. 50 Kennedy Plaza

235ft. WaterPlace Tower

223ft. The State House

220ft. The Biltmore

216ft. The County Courthouse

213ft. WaterPlace Tower

185ft. First Baptist Church

180ft. Brown Sciences Library

175ft. Dominica Manor Federal Hill

The condos in the Power Block at about 25 floors should fall in around somewhere between the 2nd Westin Tower and 50 Kennedy Plaza, 250-300-ish feet.

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I understand the Westin Tower is 360 feet and the Power Block condos will be at 300-310 feet but sitting on land that is about 30 feet higher than the Financial District, they appear as 340.

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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I think we all know, including the people behind 110 west., that if we added those 40 or 50 feet... ( lets say that translates to 4 more floors of condos) that the economy in providence can definately handle it. Don't you all agree?? So what is the issue with the height??

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Fully agree...the people of Providence need to wake up now and reject those that see it as a small scale city...that is the attitude that has stiffled development in the past. A 35 story building in Downcity Providence should be the norm in a range of 25-45 floors.

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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I agree with Cotuit and I think most other people would.  The Superman tower is our signature skyscraper.  I think that one of the reasons that everybody is stopping short of topping it is the fact that if you're going to surpass it in height then you're going to have to at least match it in quality of appearance.  I think most of us would be happy with the Superman being our tallest for at least another decade or so unless something absolutely breathtaking were to top it.  It's our first "skyscraper", it's second in status only to the statehouse, I think it should be respected.

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I totally disagree...the building is from a different era that is long past...it will always have character. It is time to move to the New Providence and start with a new scale of building (35-45) and see who gets to the top. Let Providence grow!

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glassandsteel Whistle-Stop

glassandsteel

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I wasn't displaying any hesitance towards a representation of a "new" Providence, I was merely saying that if a tower is to take place as the dominant skyline fixture then it should do so symbolically through it's appearance as well. I only see it as a respectable thing to do.

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EPBOY Whistle-Stop

EPBOY

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i just want 110 to be built, whether its the tallest or not it will add depth, that is needed to providence's skyline

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And build it with a cool spire! (Can't wait to see the renderings of that!)

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EPBOY Whistle-Stop

EPBOY

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"little" PVD...is that not the crippling flaw that Rhode Islanders (at least Providence)have to shed!...travel to other cities and you will find Providence is not "little" and can get much bigger with poweful use of underutilized real estate.

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This speaks to my recent post. We've come along way in improving our own perception that anything is possible in this city, but there are still naysayers.

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eltron Hamlet

eltron

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Out of the Boston Metro...there is consderable forces (real estate, traffic, livablity) that is causing a decrease in Boston population.

The Boston Metro does not include the Providence Metro...or visa versa. The line runs at about Foxboro. Providence is not in Boston's sphere of influence and needs to assert itself in this 2 year window of opportunity.

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I have to disagree with this assessment. Providence, like Worcester and Southern New Hampshire, is inextricably tied to Boston, whether we like it or not.

Thats not to say that Providence can't make strides (as well as stumbles) on its own, but to say it is not influenced by Boston by several measures false. There is certainly no line drawn in Foxboro...

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Cotuit Megalopolis

Cotuit

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Providence is tied to Boston, but technically, we are not part of the Boston metro as Worcester and Southern New Hampshire. I expect when everything is counted and re-assessed in 2010 that we will become officially part of the Boston metro.

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Mij Whistle-Stop

Mij

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I hope not.  We need to keep Boston out of Providence.  Nobody was claiming us when we were a smudge between NY and Cape Cod, they're definitely not going to now.

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I dont really care if we get claimed by anyone's metro area. I think its great that were talking about this. As far as O_T_W is concerned this will deffinitly add depth and character to a city that has been defined buy 3 or 4 building for the last 20 years.

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KRC Hamlet

KRC

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I wasn't displaying any hesitance towards a representation of a "new" Providence, I was merely saying that if a tower is to take place as the dominant skyline fixture then it should do so symbolically through it's appearance as well.  I only see it as a respectable thing to do.

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Excellent point. I think you hit the nail on the head with any concerns that are truely out there. I fall into the camp that I would prefer that Bank of America remain the tallest in the skyline. I like the buidling and feel a sense of pride knowing that we regard architecture so highly that quality matters if you're even considering approaching on its height or, possibly in this case, exceeding it. We most certainly can building taller, but you can bet I'm going to be fussy!

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