Charleston Skyscrapers

[Charleston native]

Very interesting debate, everybody. I have to say that all of you have a point about why Charleston isn't currently like New York or Philadelphia. According to some history books that I've read, when the colonies were up and around, the 4 largest cities in the U.S. were Boston, New York, Philly, and Charleston. That blew my mind!

The Appalachians theory is one that I had not considered, but it makes perfect sense. There needed to be a direct route from the Southeast to the West, and with the mountains there, Charleston suffered. The Civil War definitely had a hand in keeping the city from expanding (especially since it started it!). However, keep in mind many other things that have hampered this city: the HUGE earthquake of 1886 (I think that's the year), for instance. This quake was felt from NYC all the way to Miami, and the epicenter was along a fault line near the Ashley River. Charleston also had a major fire in its central area. Combine that with floods and several hurricanes and you get a city that alot of people probably wanted to avoid living in.

These events lingered in many citizens' minds as the years progressed. Charleston was a poor port town, and there weren't many economic boosts. As a result, many people felt that they needed to keep the historic houses and buildings for other people to come and see. As a result, many skyscrapers that could have been built never were, leading us to the present time.

High rises can NOW be built because Charleston is no longer (quoting the phrase many tour books have) "too poor to paint, and too proud to whitewash". They just don't have to build them right there next to St. Michael's church which has been around since the 1700s! :grin:

[randy1]

Can you provide a link?

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look for the city of charleston webpage

www.ci.charleston.sc.us/shared/ docs/0/2005_population_estimates

[bret15]

Nope, Charelston is to fixated on the old city.

[Charleston native]

Nope, Charelston is to fixated on the old city.

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I can't disagree with you, there. There are still some old "fuddy-duddy" people that think that Charleston needs to be like a historic Disneyland. In other words, if you want to build something new, it has to LOOK old. However, there are new people moving there that are changing this rationale. Other natives like myself are also realizing that if they want better traffic and better economy, they have to densify...in other words, build taller. Parts of my hometown's downtown will probably look much different in 20 years. Look at the new bridge; it already has transformed the skyline.

[Mr.Marc]

I can't disagree with you, there. There are still some old "fuddy-duddy" people that think that Charleston needs to be like a historic Disneyland. In other words, if you want to build something new, it has to LOOK old.  However, there are new people moving there that are changing this rationale. Other natives like myself are also realizing that if they want better traffic and better economy, they have to densify...in other words, build taller. Parts of my hometown's downtown will probably look much different in 20 years. Look at the new bridge; it already has transformed the skyline.

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Charleston will definitely change in 20 years (maybe even before then). I can't see why many celebrities have not made it their home (or vacation homes). It's a really nice place to live, but they need to bring other industries to the city in order for people to have jobs to buy places to live. When they can do that, the city will be one of the best in the South east (but in my opinion it already is).

[UrbanSoutherner]

Interesting conversation on Charleston's relative decline compared with other American cities. Charleston was the 4th largest city in colonial American. Of course, it only had 12,000 to 14,000 residents. Everything is relative. By the Civil War, it was the second largest southern city after New Orleans, but it had already gone way down the list of national cities. Indeed, it was only a fourth the size of New Orleans around 1860 (40,000 compared to 160,000). Charleston really began its relative decline as a major city during the 1820s. The real problem was the lack of a major river. The Ashley and Cooper Rivers are not exactly the Mississippi or Ohio River (think New Orleans, Memphis, Louisville, etc.) or even the Savannah River. The Ashley and Cooper are tidal rivers and extend inland a very short distance. That limits your markets for products coming in and out of the port. That is why Charleston built the world's first real railroad over to Hamburg across the river from Augusta. It was desperately trying to gain access to inland markets since it did not have river access beyond its own hinterlands. Also, southern cities did not industrialize until after the Civil War. They were really just commercial cities providing financial and transportation services to the surrounding agricultural areas. It is hard to grow very large on that basis. The only southern city that was a major American city by the Civil War was New Orleans (5th largest in the country at the time). Charleston had already fallen out of the big leagues by then.

[Charleston native]

Charleston will definitely change in 20 years (maybe even before then). I can't see why many celebrities have not made it their home (or vacation homes). It's a really nice place to live, but they need to bring other industries to the city in order for people to have jobs to buy places to live. When they can do that, the city will be one of the best in the South east (but in my opinion it already is).

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Exactly. The new Boeing plant is a step in the right direction. Many execs and plant managers will be buying either permanent or vacation homes (hopefully permanent). I foresee some corporations from up North relocating there which some companies have already done like Blackbaud and Mikasa.

[Infinite1]

As a reluctant transplant to the Charleston area 5 years ago, I can say that the area has a lot to offer, and has won me over. Aside from the obvious historical and natural resource attractions, the business environment is vibrant and growing. People are relocating here in droves and alot of these transplants are entreprneuers who start their own businesses. There is already an impressive list of celebrities that have properties in DT Charleston or on Seabrook or Kiawah Islands. Property values are rising across the region. New construction is setting records year after year, so it looks like the secret is out.

Also, I don't think people realize that Charleston has a decent industrial base, albeit a shrinking one. But companies such as Bosch, Nucor, Bayer, Dupont, Alcoa, Texaco, and Westvaco, just to name a few are prevelant in the area. The addition of the Voight-Aliana (sp?) plant will only provide added benefit. Also, there is a HUGE military presence here. Most seem to think that the closing of the Naval Base ended significant military presence, but there is still the AFB, The Naval Weapons station and the crown jewel - SPAWAR. SPAWAR is a navy high tech R&D organization whose east coast HQ is in Charleston. They directly employ over 1000 people and there are hundreds (literally) of defense contractors with offices in the area to support SPAWAR. I say all that to say there is ample opportunity here and I think people across the nation are beginning to realize it.

Now,as to the question of whether skyscrapers will ever be built in significant quantities in Charleston, I think the North area is probably the only viable alternative. There is too much community and municipal opposition. Although the medical area has its share of mid-rises and with the construction of the new Roper Hospital and the new MUSC facilitlies, that area have a good density of buildings and presents a descent skyline when approaching from West Ashley.

Sorry to ramble in my first post, but thats my $0.02.

[goodbye]

Great post, Infinite1! Well spoken and informative. Welcome aboard!

[Spartan]

All ramblers are welcome:) Welcome to UP! Is there any one thing about Charleston that won you over?

[Infinite1]

All ramblers are welcome:) Welcome to UP! Is there any one thing about Charleston that won you over?

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Thanks...There was no one thing, more like a lot of little things...but I like the vibrance of downtown, both during the day and at night. I also like that in 30-35 minutes I can be either at my hunting club or at the beach.

[Charleston native]

...Now,as to the question of whether skyscrapers will ever be built in significant quantities in Charleston, I think the North area is probably the only viable alternative.  There is too much community and municipal opposition.  Although the medical area has its share of mid-rises and with the construction of the new Roper Hospital and the new MUSC facilitlies, that area have a good density of buildings and presents a descent skyline when approaching from West Ashley.

Sorry to ramble in my first post, but thats my $0.02.

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The North area could only have mid-rises as well, due to the fact that the Air Force base has control of the airspace that basically spans the whole area. I think the best bet would be in and around the medical complex going toward the area around Lockwood Drive...this area has infill marsh, and a few bland-looking hotels. An even better bet would be the Neck area, considering its mostly abandoned industrial complexes.

BTW, great post Infinite1! And welcome to my hometown! I hope that you enjoy your time down there. Be careful, like many "reluctant" transplants, you might grow to love it and want to live there permanently!

[Charleston native]

This poll is better than I thought it was going to be! The vote is almost straight down the middle. This issue will probably be a hot topic as Charleston continues to grow, and the old Charleston blue-bloods try to stop it.

[Infinite1]

The North area could only have mid-rises as well, due to the fact that the Air Force base has control of the airspace that basically spans the whole area. I think the best bet would be in and around the medical complex going toward the area around Lockwood Drive...this area has infill marsh, and a few bland-looking hotels. An even better bet would be the Neck area, considering its mostly abandoned industrial complexes.

BTW, great post Infinite1! And welcome to my hometown! I hope that you enjoy your time down there. Be careful, like many "reluctant" transplants, you might grow to love it and want to live there permanently! 

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Any height restrictions would only be in the vicinity of the runway approaches. The Noisete area is several miles from there and not really in an approach path, so I'm not sure how"restricted" the building heights would be in that area.

[vdogg]

As long as it was away from the historic district, i don't mind. I used to be stationed near

Charleston and i used to love the feel of that town. It was very beautiful and had a colonial air about it. I think this is the one and only time i would ever side with the Nimbys because i wouldn't want that environment ruined.

[Charleston native]

As long as it was away from the historic district, i don't mind. I used to be stationed near Charleston and i used to love the feel of that town. It was very beautiful and had a colonial air about it. I think this is the one and only time i would ever side with the Nimbys because i wouldn't want that environment ruined.

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That is precisely what I'm proposing...away from the historic district. I don't think the environment would be ruined if building high-rises was concentrated in particular areas such as the medical district or the Neck. Again, if you merely increased density in already built-up parts, there would be virtually no negative impact on the historic district. As a matter of fact, it might help the historic district with people that have high-paying jobs in these buildings moving into the old houses that are currently being used as vacation homes for rich tourists.

Some of the people with their anti-skyscraper opinions on this thread have proved my point about obsessive preservation in Charleston. If any major development is proposed, there is a strong knee-jerk reaction to immediately put it down and not even consider it. They react on emotion rather than thinking it through and being open-minded about it.

[Mr.Marc]

That is precisely what I'm proposing...away from the historic district. I don't think the environment would be ruined if building high-rises was concentrated in particular areas such as the medical district or the Neck. Again, if you merely increased density in already built-up parts, there would be virtually no negative impact on the historic district. As a matter of fact, it might help the historic district with people that have high-paying jobs in these buildings moving into the old houses that are currently being used as vacation homes for rich tourists.

Some of the people with their anti-skyscraper opinions on this thread have proved my point about obsessive preservation in Charleston. If any major development is proposed, there is a strong knee-jerk reaction to immediately put it down and not even consider it. They react on emotion rather than thinking it through and being open-minded about it.

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Don't worry, Charleston will one day have skyscrapers. These anti-skyscraper people will live only but so long (and most of the anti-skyscraper people are pretty old).

Like it or not, the world most evolve and Charleston will do so right along with it.

[Charleston native]

I'm glad you have a positive outlook on it, Hammett. It is conceivable that the opinions of anti-skyscraper people will change and evolve. I'm just thinking that now is the right time and opportunity to start that kind of development. If too much time passes, I'm afraid that the city will lose momentum for that kind of change.

[UptownJ]

I've never seen Charleston... can someone post a pic of Dt and the skyline?

[wellington]

People come to Charleston from all over the world because of our historic downtown. Mayor Riley, as long as he is King of Charleston, is going to make sure Charleston's historical beauty is preserved.

I really don't see any high-rise buildings being constructed south of the crosstown. There is no room around MUSC unless you level residential housing (which is not going to happen). Sure MUSC and Roper are building new towers and there are several other ongoing projects (Hollings Cancer Center, College of Health Professions (renovation of old Charleston high school)) and the new Children's Research Institute. The dental school is also planning on a new building in the future. Beyond that there is no room for non-medical highrise buildings.

The only feasbile place is the Neck Area in my opinion. I think the areas that are going to see the most dynamic growth/development over the next 10 years are the Neck Area and North Charleston. To be honest, I'd rather see highrises in these areas and preserve the historic quality of downtown Charleston. What would be great is for these areas to undergo extensive development and have a transit corrider (maybe light rail) connecting downtown Charleston, the Neck Area, and North Charleston (airport, convention center).

Sort of off topic... an area of downtown that I would like to see cleaned up is the Spring Street/Cannon Street areas near the Ashley River Bridges. The mayor talked in the past about improving the image of this area since ths area is in a prominent location. Besides the McDonald's, Hardee's, and KFC there are some rather ugly hotels (Howard Johnson, old Radisson) and MUSC's Harborview Tower. There is the possibilty that a few high rises could be located in this area if the low income housing project is demolished behind Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.

[Spartan]

Charleston has a very unique skyline. Very European. For simplicity I will make a new thread for these photos.

Link to thread: http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10226

[Spartan]

People come to Charleston from all over the world because of our historic downtown. Mayor Riley, as long as he is King of Charleston, is going to make sure Charleston's historical beauty is preserved.

I really don't see any high-rise buildings being constructed south of the crosstown. There is no room around MUSC unless you level residential housing (which is not going to happen). Sure MUSC and Roper are building new towers and there are several other ongoing projects (Hollings Cancer Center, College of Health Professions (renovation of old Charleston high school)) and the new Children's Research Institute. The dental school is also planning on a new building in the future. Beyond that there is no room for non-medical highrise buildings.

The only feasbile place is the Neck Area in my opinion. I think the areas that are going to see the most dynamic growth/development over the next 10 years are the Neck Area and North Charleston. To be honest, I'd rather see highrises in these areas and preserve the historic quality of downtown Charleston. What would be great is for these areas to undergo extensive development and have a transit corrider (maybe light rail) connecting downtown Charleston, the Neck Area, and North Charleston (airport, convention center).

Sort of off topic... an area of downtown that I would like to see cleaned up is the Spring Street/Cannon Street areas near the Ashley River Bridges. The mayor talked in the past about improving the image of this area since ths area is in a prominent location. Besides the McDonald's, Hardee's, and KFC there are some rather ugly hotels (Howard Johnson, old Radisson) and MUSC's Harborview Tower. There is the possibilty that a few high rises could be located in this area if the low income housing project  is demolished behind Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.

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BTW welcome to the forum wellington! We're glad to have another person from the Charleston area!

[wellington]

BTW welcome to the forum wellington! We're glad to have another person from the Charleston area!

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Thanks. I have been reading the forums for the past few months, but just recently decided to post some comments. I'm not a developer or urban planner, but for whaterver reason I have always been interested in the growth and development of urban areas.

[Spartan]

I understand completely. I am not a developer or planner either, infact most people here aren't Its our common interest that makes this forum an interestng place!

[Charleston native]

...I really don't see any high-rise buildings being constructed south of the crosstown. There is no room around MUSC unless you level residential housing (which is not going to happen). Sure MUSC and Roper are building new towers and there are several other ongoing projects (Hollings Cancer Center, College of Health Professions (renovation of old Charleston high school)) and the new Children's Research Institute. The dental school is also planning on a new building in the future. Beyond that there is no room for non-medical highrise buildings.

The only feasbile place is the Neck Area in my opinion...

...Sort of off topic... an area of downtown that I would like to see cleaned up is the Spring Street/Cannon Street areas near the Ashley River Bridges. The mayor talked in the past about improving the image of this area since ths area is in a prominent location. Besides the McDonald's, Hardee's, and KFC there are some rather ugly hotels (Howard Johnson, old Radisson) and MUSC's Harborview Tower. There is the possibilty that a few high rises could be located in this area if the low income housing project  is demolished behind Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.

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I kind of disagree with the premise that no high-rises could be built south of the crosstown. MUSC's tower is only Phase I of their redevelopment project. The plan has Phases II and III showing what will be taller towers for additional hospital beds and specialized surgery levels. The tallest tower is reported to be 20 stories. The Student Wellness Center (where I used to work) will be completely demolished and the land there will be for one of the towers...the other one will be built across the street on Courtenay Drive. This street will be going through a radical transformation, and the old houses that are doctor's offices will be demolished to make way for the widening and rebuilding. A new Wellness Center will be built in the old parking lot facing the dental building, closer to the center of the university's campus. Granted, these are still preliminary plans, but MUSC's best bet for continued growth is to build taller.

Some other possibilities for high-rises include the ugly green-and-cream-colored building which used to house Wachovia at the intersection of Courtenay and Cannon. Currently during the new phases, the maintenance and physical plant offices for MUSC are located there, but will move once the Phases are completed. I think it would be a great idea to raze this building and build a 25-story high-rise complex for a health insurance company and maybe some apartments. Also, the old medical office building across Calhoun from Roper could be demolished and a high-rise built there.

I agree with your statements about the Neck and the area with all the fast food restaurants and ugly hotels. The latter is affectionately known as "Burger Row" by C of C and Citadel students. This area could definitely get high-rises built to replace the Harborview MUSC tower and the hotels including developing the land up Lockwood and Hagood Avenues. Public housing would have to be moved, for certain, but maybe they could place a buffer with a park and rebuild the housing behind it?