Charleston Skyscrapers

[Charleston native]

Not only CAN Charleston have a viable, relevant downtown without highrises, it DOES. 

People travel from all over the country and even the WORLD to see the special place that downtown Charleston is.  It is a model of urban living in the US. It is not stagnant, and it is growing.  And it is doing so without scarificing it's history or urban fabric to do so.  Historic preservation (along with poverty from the Civil War and depression)is the ONLY thing that kept Charleston from turning into just another dirty, decaying port city with nothing to distinguish itself from every other city. 

You don't see European cities like London and Rome destroying their historic areas for high-rises.

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London DOES have office towers; maybe not exactly in the original heart of the city, but it has them across from it on the Thames...its like their uptown. I guarantee that they demolished some old structures to make way for them, though.

I don't disagree with you that Charleston has a viable, relevant downtown, but I think it could be 20 times better if they allowed some construction of high rises. Honestly, do tourists come to see the cockroach and rat-infested, dilapidated crack houses located right off some of the main streets? These are mostly north of Calhoun Street, and I think that they should be able to build skyscrapers north of Calhoun and past the visitors center in between King and Meeting Streets.

Sure, keeping alot of historical structures is important, but common sense needs to be applied to keep the city's economy growing. Tourist attractions and vacation homes on the Battery are fine, but that does NOT bring a constant flow of money. The only jobs you bring are tour guides and souvenir shops...not exactly high-revenue incomes. Charleston needs some high-rises for several reasons: to bring in more population to downtown (DT does not have the most people in the city, West Ashley does, according to the last census), to bring in prestigious companies for tax revenue (instead of taxing residents with property taxes, which it does big-time), and to bring in high-income, "white collar" jobs to infuse more spending in the area. You can only bring in so many people into a Charleston single-house.

[Spartan]

But what is the point and reason behind allowing a 30 year-old suburban city, whose SOLE reason for its existence is the city of Charleston, to redevelop and become the biggest and most important city in the area? I basically see N. Charleston as a leech...it has sucked opportunity and growth from Charleston in order to gain economic power and money. If Charleston did not have such historical significance, and if it didn't bring in tourists like it does, N. Charleston would be a small river town.

This is like West Columbia building its own skyscrapers across the river from Columbia, trying to outdo its neighbor! Or Mauldin doing the same to Greenville...the reason you want a CENTRAL city is to unify the community under one location. If somebody asks me where I'm from, am I going to end up saying, "Oh, I'm from Charleston-North Charleston-Mt. Pleasant-Summerville"?

Would somebody PLEASE show me the evidence of the towers that will be built up there in Noisette? I keep searching the website, but there is nothing that shows specifics of TOWERS. Are they going to build 30-story buildings along the river?

Anyway, this poll is about whether DOWNTOWN CHARLESTON will get skyscrapers, not its neighbors...maybe I should have been more specific.

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I understand your point, but it is very difficult to talk about any city while excluding its surrounding areas.

London DOES have office towers; maybe not exactly in the original heart of the city, but it has them across from it on the Thames...its like their uptown. I guarantee that they demolished some old structures to make way for them, though.

I don't disagree with you that Charleston has a viable, relevant downtown, but I think it could be 20 times better if they allowed some construction of high rises. Honestly, do tourists come to see the cockroach and rat-infested, dilapidated crack houses located right off some of the main streets? These are mostly north of Calhoun Street, and I think that they should be able to build skyscrapers north of Calhoun and past the visitors center in between King and Meeting Streets.

Sure, keeping alot of historical structures is important, but common sense needs to be applied to keep the city's economy growing. Tourist attractions and vacation homes on the Battery are fine, but that does NOT bring a constant flow of money. The only jobs you bring are tour guides and souvenir shops...not exactly high-revenue incomes. Charleston needs some high-rises for several reasons: to bring in more population to downtown (DT does not have the most people in the city, West Ashley does, according to the last census), to bring in prestigious companies for tax revenue (instead of taxing residents with property taxes, which it does big-time), and to bring in high-income, "white collar" jobs to infuse more spending in the area. You can only bring in so many people into a Charleston single-house.

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London's towers are on the same side of the river, but probably a mile out of town. They used a part of the city known as the "Docklands." It was where the big ships departed and arrived to London. There were alot of wharves and wharehouses. It was a generally rundown area. The difference here is that London has density anyway. What needs to happen is that more people need to find ways to construct buildings that push the height restriction. This way, the rules cna be obeyed and downtown can have some vertical density, even if its not in the form of large towers.

I think we can all agree that Charleston has a particularly unattractive entry from the north. But the city is trying to remake that area.

Part of the reason DT doesn't have th most people ios because alot of homes are being bought up and maintained by non-permanent residents, so it basicly means there is a net out-migration in downtown. The other problem is that there is a lack of good schools downtown. I read that most residents there send their kids to private schools.

[krazeeboi]

Charleston native, I totally understand your frustration. Personally, I think it's sickening that Charleston is the 2nd largest city in the state, and N. Charleston is the 3rd largest. I think that reflects on us poorly as a state, IMHO.

[Mr.Marc]

Sure, keeping alot of historical structures is important, but common sense needs to be applied to keep the city's economy growing. Tourist attractions and vacation homes on the Battery are fine, but that does NOT bring a constant flow of money. The only jobs you bring are tour guides and souvenir shops...not exactly high-revenue incomes. Charleston needs some high-rises for several reasons: to bring in more population to downtown (DT does not have the most people in the city, West Ashley does, according to the last census), to bring in prestigious companies for tax revenue (instead of taxing residents with property taxes, which it does big-time), and to bring in high-income, "white collar" jobs to infuse more spending in the area. You can only bring in so many people into a Charleston single-house.

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[Charleston native]

Charleston native, I totally understand your frustration. Personally, I think it's sickening that Charleston is the 2nd largest city in the state, and N. Charleston is the 3rd largest. I think that reflects on us poorly as a state, IMHO.

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I totally agree with you. I think Charleston has the potential to become the Boston of the South.

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Thank you very much! It is good to see that other people see what I'm talking about. Krazeeboi, "sickening" is the perfect word to describe the current situation. And Hammett, that is precisely what I want Charleston to be. I really think that if the leaders gained some common sense, Charleston WILL become the Boston of the South. Boston is a perfect example of historical preservation combining modern high-rise architecture.

[Mr.Marc]

Charleston native, I totally understand your frustration. Personally, I think it's sickening that Charleston is the 2nd largest city in the state, and N. Charleston is the 3rd largest. I think that reflects on us poorly as a state, IMHO.

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I never really knew that Charleston and North Charleston were two different cities. I just thought that N. Charleston was just the north side of Charleston, which is practically what it is. Also, it seems to me that Charleston is the largest city in the state. Columbia may be larger, but it just seems that Charleston is a little larger than Columbia.

[Charleston native]

I never really knew that Charleston and North Charleston were two different cities. I just thought that N. Charleston was just the north side of Charleston, which is practically what it is. Also, it seems to me that Charleston is the largest city in the state. Columbia may be larger, but it just seems that Charleston is a little larger than Columbia.

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Technically, you are correct. N. Charleston really is nothing more that Charleston's "Northside", but it is, unfortunately, a city with its own government, police, and fire departments. It REALLY doesn't make any sense for it being a separate entity. There is another Charleston/N. Charleston thread that I posted which state my sentiments about having what I call a redundant city in Charleston. I even wrote Charleston's mayor and ombudsman about the situation.

Charleston, if you include the North area and the whole areas of James Island and West Ashley, is technically the largest city in the state, but Columbia currently holds that distinction with its population. If you took in NE Columbia, Forest Acres, and Aracadia Lakes, though, Columbia would be hard to beat in the largest city category.

[Spartan]

Here are the municipalities in and around Charleston:

You can see where Charleston and North Charleston are. You can also see that James Island would be created in an area that is already dimonated by Charleston.

You are correct about Charleston being the largest city. As we all know the Urban Area is the best way to compare city sizes. The UAs do not have anything to do with municipalities or county lines.

Urban Area

• Charleston: 423,410

  Columbia: 420,537

  Greenville: 302,194

As you can see Columbia and Charleston are effectivly the same sized city.

edit: I updated the map.

[Charleston native]

Here are the municipalities in and around Charleston:

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GREAT map, Spartan! That is by far, the best map showing municipal boundaries in Charleston I have ever seen.

Keep in mind that a big western section of N. Chas. is not really in the city limits because that whole area contains the Int'l Airport/Air Force base.

But as you can see, geographically it doesn't make sense for there to be another city north of Charleston, because it extends directly from the peninsula. Just picture the Chas./N. Chas. city limit colors being the same, and you can see how much more sense it would make for them to be merged or consolidated.

[vicupstate]

Thanks for posting the map Spartan.

Charleston Native: Please note that North Charleston is almost completely blocked from further annexation, while Charleston has many options for future expansion. Specifically, Cainhoy(Berkeley County portion of Chas.), West Ashley, James Island, John's Island (part of which isn't even shown on the map) and Wadmalaw Island.

Summerville is in the way of northern expansion of North Chas. Jumping the Ashley River is unlikely because North Chas. has no infrastuture there (water lines, fire stations, etc). Charleston could more easily and inexpensively provide services. North Chas would probably annex in West Ashley only if it were a very large one. Otherwise the expense of police, fire and garbage services would be too expensive to provide to a remote part of the city. Also, Summerville is just as close as North Chas. to the Dorchester County side of the Ashley.

North Charleston grew so fast because it had lower taxes than Charleston for most of the time since it's incorporation. The expense of supporting it's Coliseum, Convention Center, etc. has largely erased that difference I believe.

Those facts coupled with the fact that the vast Berkeley County portion of Charleston is largely undeveloped, but is ripe for development, convince me that North Charleston will never catch Charleston in population.

BTW, within the city limits, Charleston only trails Columbia by 10,000 or so. Charleston has an excellent chance to be SC's largest city in the 2010 census.

[randy1]

Thanks for posting the map Spartan.

Charleston Native:  Please note that North Charleston is almost completely blocked from further annexation, while Charleston has many options for future expansion.  Specifically, Cainhoy(Berkeley County portion of Chas.), West Ashley, James Island, John's Island (part of which isn't even shown on the map) and Wadmalaw Island.

Summerville is in the way of northern expansion of North Chas.  Jumping the Ashley River is unlikely because North Chas. has no infrastuture there (water lines, fire stations, etc).  Charleston could more easily and inexpensively provide services.  North Chas would probably annex in West Ashley only if it were a very large one.  Otherwise the expense of police, fire and garbage services would be too expensive to provide to a remote part of the city.  Also, Summerville is just as close as North Chas. to the Dorchester County side of the Ashley.

North Charleston grew so fast because it had lower taxes than Charleston for most of the time since it's incorporation.  The expense of supporting it's Coliseum, Convention Center, etc. has largely erased that difference I believe. 

Those facts coupled with the fact that the vast Berkeley County portion of Charleston is largely undeveloped, but is ripe for development, convince me that North Charleston will never catch Charleston in population. 

BTW, within the city limits, Charleston only trails Columbia by 10,000 or so.  Charleston has an excellent chance to be SC's largest city in the 2010 census.

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I agree. Charleston native, I don't believe that people really care as to whether comething is in Charleston or North Charleston. Here in Chuck, we really refer to these as areas of one whoel "city". If you would ask someone living here, in lets say North Charleston, where the aquarium is, they wouldn't say Charleston, they would say downtown. Everyonw who lives in Charleston (n. Chas. Hananah, Mt. Pleasant, James Island, etc.) knows that when you refer to downtown its Downtown Charleston. Be proud of being a person from the Lowcountry. Yes, North Charleston has come a ong way and we are all proud of that. It adds to the diversity of what Charleston is. North Charleston has played a great role in the expansion of the Charleston region as a whole. Yes Charleston (city) has grown population for a long time. The latest census puts it only 10,000 from Columbia, which has stayed around 117,000 for a period of time. As far as skyscrapers go, I believe in the future that the height restrictions will be lessened to accomodate future growth and high desity and try to curb the impact of suburban sprawl (not stop it). Charleston's leadership is slowly but surely seeing this. The building of skyscrapers in Charleston would probably be around the medical center areas and the neck region, but I don't forsee any down in the historic downtown area. There are those who would protest because they feel that it would damage the charm of the peninsula city. I figure, the charm mostly comes from the people who live in the city. So once again be proud of all the municipalities of Charleston from Folly all the way to Moncks Corner. Charleston is definitely a unique and special place.

[Spartan]

By the last census Charleston trails Columbia by around 20,000, but by recent Census Estimates Charelston is catching up and is probably closer to 10k or less. It could very likely outpace Columbia soon enough.

2000

Columbia - 116,178

Charleston - 96,650

N Charleston - 79,641

2003 est.

Coumbia - 117,357

Charleston - 101,024

N Charleston - 81,577

Change - # - %

Columbia - 1179 - 1%

Charleston - 4374 - 4.5%

N Charleston - 1936 - 2.4%

Keep in mind that these are esitmates for the Municipalities, and do not necessarily reflect the Metro growth!

[Charleston native]

Thanks for posting the map Spartan.

Charleston Native:  Please note that North Charleston is almost completely blocked from further annexation, while Charleston has many options for future expansion.  Specifically, Cainhoy(Berkeley County portion of Chas.), West Ashley, James Island, John's Island (part of which isn't even shown on the map) and Wadmalaw Island...

...North Charleston grew so fast because it had lower taxes than Charleston for most of the time since it's incorporation.  The expense of supporting it's Coliseum, Convention Center, etc. has largely erased that difference I believe. 

Those facts coupled with the fact that the vast Berkeley County portion of Charleston is largely undeveloped, but is ripe for development, convince me that North Charleston will never catch Charleston in population. 

BTW, within the city limits, Charleston only trails Columbia by 10,000 or so.  Charleston has an excellent chance to be SC's largest city in the 2010 census.

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Hey vic, your post is absolutely right, and I realize all those facts as well. The biggest problem I have with the North area is the redundancy of municipal governments. If both cities were consolidated or merged, I would not have ANY worries about any conspiracies. There would be no concern, because I would know that it all is under CHARLESTON's jurisdiction and nothing else.

[Charleston native]

I agree.  Charleston native, I don't believe that people really care as to whether comething is in Charleston or North Charleston.  Here in Chuck, we really refer to these as areas of one whoel "city".  If you would ask someone living here, in lets say North Charleston, where the aquarium is, they wouldn't say Charleston, they would say downtown.  Everyonw who lives in Charleston (n. Chas. Hananah, Mt. Pleasant, James Island, etc.) knows that when you refer to downtown its Downtown Charleston.  Be proud of being a person from the Lowcountry.  Yes, North Charleston has come a ong way and we are all proud of that.  It adds to the diversity of what Charleston is.  North Charleston has played a great role in the expansion of the Charleston region as a whole.  Yes Charleston (city) has grown population for a long time.  The latest census puts it only 10,000 from Columbia, which has stayed around 117,000 for a period of time.  As far as skyscrapers go, I believe in the future that the height restrictions will be lessened to accomodate future growth and high desity and try to curb the impact of suburban sprawl (not stop it).  Charleston's leadership is slowly but surely seeing this.  The building of skyscrapers in Charleston would probably be around the medical center areas and the neck region, but I don't forsee any down in the historic downtown area.  There are those who would protest because they feel that it would damage the charm of the peninsula city.  I figure, the charm mostly comes from the people who live in the city.  So once again be proud of all the municipalities of Charleston from Folly all the way to Moncks Corner.  Charleston is definitely a unique and special place.

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Dude, I am proud to be originally from Chucktown. I don't think I'm being too critical about the area. There are just some little things that the area could do, IMHO, to enhance the quality of life and cut taxes. Many cities such as Jacksonville, Indianapolis, and Louisville realized that consolidation of services doesn't reduce the quality of their cities...it enhances the quality. I want to keep the other towns of Folly Beach or Sullivan's Island...even Mount Pleasant. That town is growing at a tremendous rate, but it still acknowledges that being in the Charleston area is the reason for their prosperity. The upcoming Cooper River Bridge Run is a primary example where this 10K race through 2 cities fosters cooperation, not competition.

I am proud of my hometown, but that just increases my zeal for some changes that I think could make it even better. I wouldn't want skyscrapers in the historic area, either. The historic district IS Charleston's "bread and butter", the essential ingredient to its charm. However, as you said earlier, building high-rises around the medical area and the Neck area would be very feasible and eventually might even be necessary. The dream and possibility of making things better and more urban there is really the intent of my post.

[Spartan]

It is my understanding that Charleston's high taxes offset the low property taxes. Or maybe the high property tacxes offset the low cost of living? I forget which one it is.

[Charleston native]

It is my understanding that Charleston's high taxes offset the low property taxes. Or maybe the high property tacxes offset the low cost of living? I forget which one it is.

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The high property taxes keep the local and county taxes from becoming too high. Many middle-income people have complained that as property values downtown soar (one property has been appraised for approx. $9 million), it is becoming less affordable to live and maintain a home there. Many middle-income people can't pay the huge property taxes.

My solution to this is do what Florida does. Florida has a 10% accommodations tax on all hotels and resorts. I would add a 5-10% accommodations tax for any hotel in the city. Maybe it could be done for the entire county. That way, you don't stick it to the people who live there, but you do use your main economy, in this case tourism, to improve your infrastructure and give you a better tax revenue.

[randy1]

2005 City Of Charleston Population statistics state that it hovers at 110,423 !

[Charleston native]

2005 City Of Charleston Population statistics state that it hovers at  110,423 !

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SWEET!! Let's keep on truckin' Chucktown!

[Spartan]

2005 City Of Charleston Population statistics state that it hovers at  110,423 !

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Can you provide a link?

[The_sandlapper]

Charleston native, I totally understand your frustration. Personally, I think it's sickening that Charleston is the 2nd largest city in the state, and N. Charleston is the 3rd largest. I think that reflects on us poorly as a state, IMHO.

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I agree with that, with Charleston's history and age it should easily be the size of its early peers such as Baltimore, Philly, Boston, or even NYC (well maybe not that big but you get the point).

[goodbye]

If you are comparing Charleston with other port cities in the northeast, just remember what a negative impact the Civil War had upon the entire South.

[The_sandlapper]

I'm aware of that, I'm just saying that if all things went well Charleston should be as large as those cities considering it's importance in relation too those cities at the time. Basically it was the New York of the south during that time. Actually I think if SC hadn't been so "gung ho" about civil inequalities all three major metros would be larger than they are, but that's another issue altogether.

[Spartan]

I agree with that, with Charleston's history and age it should easily be the size of its early peers such as Baltimore, Philly, Boston, or even NYC (well maybe not that big but you get the point).

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Maybe so, but the fact is that the South had a slave-based economy. The cities in the North had a very strong industrial base. More junk to export there I have wondered what Charleston would look like if it had expanded as the cities in the North did. That said, Charleston is still one of the highest volume ports in the nation.

[btoy]

I don't know about those other cities, but New York got so large becuase that is where all the immigrants were comeing in to the US, and many stayed in new york once they entered the US.

[Spartan]

That and NYC was the end point in of the connection to the midwest via the Hudson-Erie Canal-Great Lakes-Chicago connection, and a key export city for much of the NE industries necause of that access.

IMO, the Appalachians were the downfall of Charleston. They prevented access with the western US. This is why NO is a larger city.