Jump to content

How do North Carolinians perceive us?


krazeeboi

Recommended Posts

I think Chafe was speaking more generally about progressive issues, and not just race. And Georgia's flag deal was really worse than SC's since it was only every single state flag everywhere. In SC, it was just one flag on top of one building. Thankfully, both states have reached reasonable compromises.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree - I think with the NAACP boycott SC was getting the bum rap between the two states. Georgia's confederate flag display was far more beligerant.

Now two states that should really be boycotted yet haven't received any negative press (or b/c there isn't any press aobut these states anyways) are Mississippi & Alabama. I haven't heard of any real effort to change their state flags & somehow I doubt there ever will. It's a shame, particularly Mississippi's overt worship of 'rebels' (Ole' Miss).

Of course, I really don't want to be targeted by any flag supporters - so I'll stop there...

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 102
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I agree - I think with the NAACP boycott SC was getting the bum rap between the two states.  Georgia's confederate flag display was far more beligerant.

Now two states that should really be boycotted yet haven't received any negative press (or b/c there isn't any press aobut these states anyways) are Mississippi & Alabama.  I haven't heard of any real effort to change their state flags & somehow I doubt there ever will.  It's a shame, particularly Mississippi's overt worship of 'rebels' (Ole' Miss).

Of course, I really don't want to be targeted by any flag supporters - so I'll stop there...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good points Teshadoh...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mississippi's flag is definately an issue, however it was put to vote and the people voted to keep it.

Alabama's flag was not inherited from the Confederate battle flag, though it is similar. It is a crimson St. Andrew's cross. Florida has one in its flag too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mississippi's flag is definately an issue, however it was put to vote and the people voted to keep it. 

Alabama's flag was not inherited from the Confederate battle flag, though it is similar. It is a crimson St. Andrew's cross. Florida has one in its flag too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But that was based from the Confederate battle flag from my understanding, you are right though - forgot Florida.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am simply amazed that many of you here seem to think the Confederate Flag = Hate, Discrimination, Racism and being "backwards". Sorry but that only demonstrates that you do not have a good understanding (or no understanding) of history (both recent and more distant).

The NAACP, in looking for reason to continue to exist, has re-defined the flag in these terms and many people who get all of their knowledge from the idiot popular media have fallen for it hook line & sinker. 25 years ago, nobody saw the Confederate flag in these terms but somehow our schools are so poorly run now that anyone can get on TV and get a significant number of people to believe anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am simply amazed that many of you here seem to think the Confederate Flag = Hate, Discrimination, Racism and being "backwards".  Sorry but that only demonstrates that you do not have a good understanding (or no understanding) of history (both recent and more distant). 

The NAACP, in looking for reason  to continue to exist, has re-defined the flag in these terms and many people who get all of their knowledge from the idiot popular media have fallen for it hook line & sinker.  25 years ago, nobody saw the Confederate flag in these terms but somehow our schools are so poorly run now that anyone can get on TV and get a significant number of people to believe anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will agree with Teshadoh that we should not get into a heritage vs. hate argument over the Confederate flag. But I must take exception to your characterization of people like myself who belief that the flag needed to come down off the State House dome. For your information, some of us do know a few things about history. In fact, I hold a MA in History from USC with one of my major fields being post-bellum southern history (especially race issues). Indeed, the truth is that the more I learned about the specifics of the flag situation in SC, the less sympathetic I became for the flag. I was once for keeping it up. And for the record, I am not a member of the NAACP, and I am white. I grew up the little Civil War buff like all good SC boys. And I had a great-great-great grandfather killed at Fort Johnson in Charleston harbor during the war among other ancestors in the war as well. I will match my knowledge of southern history and my southern credentials against anybody's. And I was absolutely for removing the Confederate battle flag from the State House dome with the compromise solution that was reached. Just wanted to correct your misconception there. And now I will shut up about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that was based from the Confederate battle flag from my understanding, you are right though - forgot Florida.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But is that a big deal? Its not THE Confederate flag.... I don't have a porblem with it. I can understand Mississippi and Georgia's former flag being under controversy.

I am simply amazed that many of you here seem to think the Confederate Flag = Hate, Discrimination, Racism and being "backwards".  Sorry but that only demonstrates that you do not have a good understanding (or no understanding) of history (both recent and more distant). 

The NAACP, in looking for reason  to continue to exist, has re-defined the flag in these terms and many people who get all of their knowledge from the idiot popular media have fallen for it hook line & sinker.  25 years ago, nobody saw the Confederate flag in these terms but somehow our schools are so poorly run now that anyone can get on TV and get a significant number of people to believe anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that the Navy Jack should not be displayed. The Confederacy did not have an exceptional navy. If we are going to show respect towards that part of our history we need to use the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd "National" flag. The Battle Flag and the Navy Jack have too much negativity associated with themselves.

Since we are now discussing flags it seems necessary to have some illustrations as many of you may not be familiar with some of these flags or of the others mentioned, I will post pictures of them. This is meant as an illustration only.

Alabama:

AL.gif

Florida:

flflagb.gif

Mississippi:

MS.gif

This is the flag that Mississippians voted down. It was the state's flag until 1894.

MS_proposed_small.gif

Georgia's old flag:

gaflag56.gif

Georgia's current Flag

gaflag.jpg

South Carolina's previous arrangement was to have the Navy Jack flying on the statehouse dome:

sc3flagsdomeclose.jpg

The flag has since been moved to a less prominent spot on the statehouse grounds:

cityColumbiaSC06.jpg

This is a flag I see in NC fairlt often. I am not sure if it was ever an actual flag.

nc_csa.gif

Confederate flags that I have mentioned:

1st National

confederateflag1.gif

2nd National

confederateflag2ndnational.gif

3rd National

confederateflag3rdnational.gif

Navy Jack

confederateflag2ndNavyJack.gif

Battle Flag

confederateflagbattle3.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heritage or hate? Well I'm sorry but I find the flag offensive, my family finds the flag offensive, and have for a number of years. It's more than just a flag, it's a symbol of a time of extreme oppression, & civil intolerance. To mee it's the equivalant of flying a nazi swatztika and Germans accepting it as a part of there heratige.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(teshadoh @ Apr 21 2005, 08:51 AM)

But that was based from the Confederate battle flag from my understanding, you are right though - forgot Florida.

*

But is that a big deal? Its not THE Confederate flag.... I don't have a porblem with it. I can understand Mississippi and Georgia's former flag being under controversy.

Good point, but what was the intent to change the flag? The flag in question has a visible connotation, but is that any different from any other flag based on a confederate design or whose intent was to honor the confederacy? Nonetheless intent is a tricky subject, GA's 1956 flag redesign was in response to the Brown vs. Board of Education ruling, though many will counter it was to honor the confederacy. Could it be debatable that their was a more controversial intent to FL & AL's redesign after the Civil War?

But just to make myself clear, this is more of an academic question - rather than an accusation. I just want to cover my butt if this heats up into a pro/anti-flag arguement ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually the flag that all of us are familiar with is known as the Confederate Battle Flag. There was never an "official" flag for the entire Confederacy as the idea behind separation was "States Rights" and the idea of replacing one Federal govt with another, was not a popular one. (That is why it was a confederation) Hence the wide variation in designs.

It should be noted that NC also officially flys a Confederate Flag once a year.

I take no issue with people who are against flying the flag on public property. I can see the artgument for removing it based solely on the fact that it represents a government that no longer exists. Though I can see leaving it for historical reasons as well.

I do take issue who those who would make it a racial issue to further their own gains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually the flag that all of us are familiar with is known as the Confederate Battle Flag. There was never an "official" flag for the entire Confederacy as the idea behind separation was "States Rights" and the idea of replacing one Federal govt with another, was not a popular one.  (That is why it was a confederation)  Hence the wide variation in designs. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct - the 'Battle Flag' was never the 'official' flag, as this one was the first official Confederate flag:

flags_nat2.jpg

Most often individual states militias, as they did during the Revolutionary War, used their state flag or their own milita flag.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But just to make myself clear, this is more of an academic question - rather than an accusation.  I just want to cover my butt if this heats up into a pro/anti-flag arguement ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I don't see why this should turn into that type of debate. I don't think anyone wants to go down that road.

The fact that they label it as the St. Andrew's cross exempts Alabama's flag from the Confederate label, though the motives are clear. I'll say more on this later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is alot of history about the Naval Jack style of flag that we (the American Colonies) inherited from Britain. The Jack comes from the canton (upper left corner). Whatever emblem is there should be fitted to a standard sized flag. This is sort of how the UK's "Union Jack" came about.

The CSA flag that was adopted by the KKK and the former Confederate States as the symbol was simply the canton of the Second and Third National flags. So while the symbol does stem from the battle flag- its not quite that simple.

I am assuming that most of you are more familiar with the rectangular flag (naval jack) than the square battle flag. That is what I see the most often represented (usually in criticism) of the South.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct - the 'Battle Flag' was never the 'official' flag, as this one was the first official Confederate flag:

Most often individual states militias, as they did during the Revolutionary War, used their state flag or their own milita flag.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The CSA changed to the second flag because in battle the two sides often confused that one for the Union flag.

The stripe was added to the second becuase it often looked like a surrender flag if the wind wasnt blowing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the idea that most North Carolinaians (and the rest of the country) have of SC is:

1. It's very rural.

2. It's very Old South. The Confederate flag fiasco, the comments of the Senator from SC about unwed mothers, etc lead people to believe that SC is closed-minded. I think SC, Alabama, and Mississippi get lumped into this Old South category by most people.

a. I don't think I can name any corporation that is headquartered in SC except Hooters.

b. There are still Blue Laws.

3. The coast is very beautiful. Except for Myrtle Beach, which is a trash hole now.

4. The drivers are absolutely horrible drivers (at least the ones that drive into Charlotte). This may come from the fact that there is less traffic in SC than NC. But, SC drivers tend to drive very slow on the interstate in Charlotte, and they are always in the left lane.

5. North Carolinians are still pissed that SC put the "On my mind" slogan on their license plates a few years back. (James Taylor is obviously talking about NC in that song...he is from NC).

6. North Carolinaians are pissed SC calls USC "Carolina".

For the most part, I think that most NC citizens look down on SC, like most posters on here have said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I get started, I think that your post is much more negative than most people would think. I take issue with many things that you say.

I don't think I can name any corporation that is headquartered in SC except Hooters.

Just becuase you can't name them doesn't mean they don't exist. Ever hear of Michelin or Denny's or Colonial Life Insurance? SC has many HQ's. Most people don't know that Hooters got started in Myrtle Beach.

4.  The drivers are absolutely horrible drivers (at least the ones that drive into Charlotte).  This may come from the fact that there is less traffic in SC than NC.  But, SC drivers tend to drive very slow on the interstate in Charlotte, and they are always in the left lane.

I don't know what you are talking about here. Every time I venture in to NC I get passed by multiple NC drivers (i don't drive slow). There have been multiple instances on most of my trips there where I was cut off or nearly side-swiped by a North Carolinian. I'm not trying to say SC drivers are good, but NC's are no better.

5.  North Carolinians are still pissed that SC put the "On my mind" slogan on their license plates a few years back.  (James Taylor is obviously talking about NC in that song...he is from NC).

6.  North Carolinaians are pissed SC calls USC "Carolina".

Both of these are asinine points. If anyone else thinks this then they need to get a grip. How stuck up are North Carolinians to think that they are so much better than SC that they should be the sole user of "Carolina" in any sense of it?

For the most part, I think that most NC citizens look down on SC, like most posters on here have said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this. But I think it is due to sterotypes. I don't view NC as any better than SC. NC has twice the population of SC, so I view it as twice as many morons, but also twice as many progressive thinkers, or twice as many average joes.

I generally get annoyed with anyone who has a superiority complex over anything. I'm not saying you do, but it does come off that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just becuase  you can't name them doesn't mean they don't exist. Ever hear of Michelin or Denny's or Colonial Life Insurance? SC has many HQ's. Most people don't know that Hooters got started in Myrtle Beach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Michelin's HQ is in France. (Just being a smart ass :P )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. It's very Old South. The Confederate flag fiasco, the comments of the Senator from SC about unwed mothers, etc lead people to believe that SC is closed-minded. I think SC, Alabama, and Mississippi get lumped into this Old South category by most people.
Comments such as these have also been made by Bill James, who is a Mecklenburg County Commissioner.

5. North Carolinians are still pissed that SC put the "On my mind" slogan on their license plates a few years back. (James Taylor is obviously talking about NC in that song...he is from NC).

6. North Carolinaians are pissed SC calls USC "Carolina".

I've lived in Charlotte for 30 years and have never heard anyone mention either of these.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I get started, I think that your post is much more negative than most people would think. I take issue with many things that you say.

Just becuase you can't name them doesn't mean they don't exist. Ever hear of Michelin or Denny's or Colonial Life Insurance? SC has many HQ's. Most people don't know that Hooters got started in Myrtle Beach.

I don't know what you are talking about here. Every time I venture in to NC I get passed by multiple NC drivers (i don't drive slow). There have been multiple instances on most of my trips there where I was cut off or nearly side-swiped by a North Carolinian. I'm not trying to say SC drivers are good, but NC's are no better.

Both of these are asinine points. If anyone else thinks this then they need to get a grip. How stuck up are North Carolinians to think that they are so much better than SC that they should be the sole user of "Carolina" in any sense of it?

I agree with this. But I think it is due to sterotypes. I don't view NC as any better than SC. NC has twice the population of SC, so I view it as twice as many morons, but also twice as many progressive thinkers, or twice as many average joes.

I generally get annoyed with anyone who has a superiority complex over anything. I'm not saying you do, but it does come off that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Spartan.

Am I too young; if not, why don't I remember when SC had "On My Mind" on our license plates. I've always thought "On My Mind" was coined by Ray Charles, whose phrase is on Georgia's license tags.

And who is James Taylor anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take no issue with people who are against flying the flag on public property.  I can see the artgument for removing it based solely on the fact that it represents a government that no longer exists.  Though I can see leaving it for historical reasons as well. 

I do take issue who those who would make it a racial issue to further their own gains.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then do you take issue with the way the flag was brought back by segregationists in the 50's and 60's? It was not the NAACP that created the association of the flag with hatred, it was this part of our history. As for the "government" that it represented - it's not just that it no longer exists, it's that its entire reason for existence was to tear apart this country. People can decide what they feel about their heritage but I don't think the flag should be displayed in an official capacity.

(Apologies to those who wanted to avoid this debate...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I too young...

And who is James Taylor anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh you must be if you haven't heard of him ;) But I wouldn't consider that a negative thing, not only do you have your youth but you're also lucky you never had to hear "You Got A Friend" a million times :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Spartan. 

Am I too young; if not, why don't  I remember when SC had "On My Mind" on our license plates.  I've always thought "On My Mind" was coined by Ray Charles, whose phrase is on Georgia's license tags.

And who is James Taylor anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come to think of it- I don't recall that ever existing on out license plates. That makes his point even worse. Now Georgia's is "We're glad Georgia's on your mind." Maybe thats it.

Here is a link to SC's license plates: http://www.15q.net/sc.html

James Taylor is singer who was popular 70s. Its decent music. I am not that old, but I do occasionally enjoy a song of his. You have likely heard "Carolina on My Mind" before and not realized it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.