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How do North Carolinians perceive us?


krazeeboi

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Oh you must be if you haven't heard of him ;)  But I wouldn't consider that a negative thing, not only do you have your youth but you're also lucky you never had to hear "You Got A Friend" a million times :)

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Or "How sweet it is to be loved by you"

he is just one of those people who you don't know who he is, but you like his music.

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Yes I do take issue they did this. However, I take bigger issue with people who would associate all of the good people of South Carolina with the very few bigots that use the flag for this purpose. The NAACP and the KKK were both wrong for having used the flag for their own gains.

Sadly, many people do not take the time nor the effort to understand and comprehend the facts in this matter.

Then do you take issue with the way the flag was brought back by segregationists in the 50's and 60's? It was not the NAACP that created the association of the flag with hatred, it was this part of our history. As for the "government" that it represented - it's not just that it no longer exists, it's that its entire reason for existence was to tear apart this country. People can decide what they feel about their heritage but I don't think the flag should be displayed in an official capacity.

(Apologies to those who wanted to avoid this debate...)

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2.  It's very Old South.  The Confederate flag fiasco, the comments of the Senator from SC about unwed mothers, etc lead people to believe that SC is closed-minded.  I think SC, Alabama, and Mississippi get lumped into this Old South category by most people.

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Jb4563, I have just two words for you on point 2 -- JESSE HELMS. Five times (i.e., thirty freakin years) the wonderfully "progressive" folks up in NC elected him to the US Senate and inflicted him on the rest of us. At least Strom Thurmond did outgrow some of his views and evolve over time. Then again, Jesse never did believe in evolution. :)

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Ever hear of Michelin or Denny's?

Isn't Denny's the chain that wouldn't serve blacks? Sounds like a SC company.

I don't know what you are talking about here. Every time I venture in to NC I get passed by multiple NC drivers (i don't drive slow). There have been multiple instances on most of my trips there where I was cut off or nearly side-swiped by a North Carolinian. I'm not trying to say SC drivers are good, but NC's are no better.

That is probably because they are trying to get around you because you are driving too slow. :whistling:

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Isn't Denny's the chain that wouldn't serve blacks?  Sounds like a SC company.

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Is there any point you are trying to make?

Really - there is no real difference between NC or SC or for that matter AL & GA. You are stereotyping a region that is only 15 miles south of you (Charlotte). Do you really think cultural patterns abruptly stop at the state line?

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I've lived in Charlotte for 30 years and have never heard anyone mention either of these.

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1. People in the Triangle and Carolina fans tend to get pissed off more that USC uses Carolina.

2. I believe in between the old SC plate with the little bird and the "Smiling Face, Beautiful Places" plate (late 90s), SC tried to come out with a "Carolina in my mind" plate (either they decided not to do it or it was just a speciality plate).

I remember NC being upset and it was all over the local news.

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I think the idea that most North Carolinaians (and the rest of the country) have of SC is:

1.  It's very rural.

While I realize that most of these are simply perceptions, I will say that for the most part, most of these sentiments would most likely come from Charlotteans or Raleighites. But then again, I know a that a lot of Charlotteans would think this of any other area in NC as well. The reality is that the urban/rural ratio in both North and South Carolina is practically the same.

4.  The drivers are absolutely horrible drivers (at least the ones that drive into Charlotte).  This may come from the fact that there is less traffic in SC than NC.  But, SC drivers tend to drive very slow on the interstate in Charlotte, and they are always in the left lane.

I will say that I've run across my share of bad SC drivers, in NC and SC. But there are just as many, if not more, bad NC drivers as well, in Charlotte and everywhere else. As one who drives into Charlotte every day for work, trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

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Actually, I think NC is very different from SC.  We have many more transplants from other regions than SC.

Also, our populations is expected to exceed GA, NJ, MI, and OH in the year 2030 with a population of 12.2 million.

The thread asked why North Carolinians think of South Carolina, and you cannot get mad when I (or probably most of NC/country) thinks SC is backwards and rural.

Is NC much better?  Not always.  Our state and Charlotte could be a lot more liberal.

But I think NC (and the northern part of GA) is much more New South than any part of SC is right now.

Did we have Jesse Helms?  Yes.  And, he is part of the past now.

Do we have a Confederate flag on our General Assembly property?  Do we have a state senator who thinks unwed mothers shouldn't teach?  Do we have the NAACP boycotting our state?  No, and those are all things still going on in SC.  And, the whole country sees those things happening in SC and laughs.

When I hear jokes about the South on national TV (Jay Leno, etc), they tend to be about SC or AL.

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THAT is a valid response, you certainly stated what you think about SC (though I disagree with much of it), nonetheless that is a real response. What I am reffering to are cheap shots about a lawsuit against a SC company.

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THAT is a valid response, you certainly stated what you think about SC (though I disagree with much of it), nonetheless that is a real response.  What I am reffering to are cheap shots about a lawsuit against a SC company.

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I think that is the culture of SC.

SC's coast is extremely beautiful, especially Hilton Head and Charleston.

And, hey, NC's companies aren't any better.

BofA cannot even keep up with customer data and First Union couldn't integrate CoreStates to save its life.

:blush:

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1.  People in the Triangle and Carolina fans tend to get pissed off more that USC uses Carolina. 

I say get over it. NC doesn't own that name.

2.  I believe in between the old SC plate with the little bird and the "Smiling Face, Beautiful Places" plate (late 90s), SC tried to come out with a "Carolina in my mind" plate (either they decided not to do it or it was just a speciality plate).

I remember NC being upset and it was all over the local news.

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It could have been a specialty tag of some sort, but it was never official. Still, James Taylor doesn't specify which Carolina he is talking about.

Actually, I think NC is very different from SC.  We have many more transplants from other regions than SC.

Also, our populations is expected to exceed GA, NJ, MI, and OH in the year 2030 with a population of 12.2 million.

The thread asked why North Carolinians think of South Carolina, and you cannot get mad when I (or probably most of NC/country) thinks SC is backwards and rural.

True, but IMO you said things in a very condescending manner. I'm sure you didn't intend to offend though.

Do we have a Confederate flag on our General Assembly property?

Do we have the NAACP boycotting our state?

Do we have Bob Jones University?

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We no longer have the flag on our dome. Get your facts straight.

The NAACP's boycott of SC is laughable at best. Ever hear of a thing called "Black Biker Week" at Myrtle Beach? That boycott might actually influence a few people in Indiana or something, but we aren't suffering from it. The NAACP doesn't hold as much water as it thinks it does IMO.

Has anyone ever thought about how much free publicity Bob Jones University gets? This is a TINY school that gets as much national attention as some major Ivy League schools. Ok maybe not that much, but it seems alot of people have heard of it, and their advertizing is not that great...

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When I hear jokes about the South on national TV (Jay Leno, etc), they tend to be about SC or AL.

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Ah, Jay Leno, the epitome of cosmopolitan culture...

Actually I remember not too long ago, I was watching something on TV with a co-worker and a joke was made about the people in the Appalachians (country, hillbilly, etc.). My co-worker got offended because he took it as a cheap shot at NC (even though I suspect the joke was about W. Virginia).

Oh yeah, what about that "Sex in the City" episode? That really got a lot of Charlotteans' feathers ruffled.

At any rate, most jokes I hear about the South nowadays tend to be about Alabama and Mississippi, not South Carolina.

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My opinion, opinion mind you of South Carolina is that its nice to vist but I would not want to live there. Charleston is an exceptional place and I like to go to HHI, but Myrtle Beach and that area are trash holes. Columbia IMO, is more dingy but still has a southern feel certainly urban. I have never been to the upstate.

Now, where SC absolutley kills NC. The State Parks are 10000x better then in NC as is I-77.

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I don't keep up with the show, but I think that particular episode was about a couple from Charlotte visiting someone in whatever city the show is based out of (NYC, I think), basically the couple was protrayed as the country-hillbilly type. It was all over the news up this way the night after it aired.

I found this on a message board, describing the couple:

I'm going to get in trouble here, because I really do like the writers for this show; they are great gals and fun at parties. But now they have vilified both Brooklyn and North Carolina. When Kristin Davis meets the parents of their surrogate child (a couple from Charlotte, we are told, in horror), they arrive in Manhattan seemingly without any teeth, unsure of what to put on sandwiches, and hair that hasn't been cleansed in weeks.

Now, if they had been from Rutherfordton, or Advance, or from the Tweetsie Railroad snack bar, I could understand it, but Charlotte?

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Well then we have quite different values. I take a great deal more offense at segregation and the way the confederate flag was used (and not just by the KKK, but state govts as well) to cast the issue as a Southern vs. Northern thing. I agree that it's a disgrace when people try to paint SC and other states as a bunch of bigots, and it needs to stop. But for me no amount of anger over that fact changes the key issue, which is that the flag should not be used by state governments. This flag is inextricably tied to some awful views in our history. To use it as an official symbol implies that we can sanitize it and forget those things if it makes people happier. I don't accept that.

Yes I do take issue they did this.  However, I take bigger issue with people who would associate all of the good people of South Carolina with the very few bigots that use the flag for this purpose.  The NAACP and the KKK were both wrong for having used the flag for their own gains. 

Sadly, many people do not take the time nor the effort to understand and comprehend the facts in this matter.

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Sorry you feel that way but you are way off base. Another example of where this happened is the Swastika. The Swastika was perverted by the Nazi's into something inhuman considereing what they did to 6 million Jews. I will let you do your own research on why they chose this particular symbol, but in developing their cult, they adopted a Buddhist symbol. In reality the swastika is Buddha and Shinto religious symbol that has been use for centuries and is still in use today. You can find it all over modern Tokyo. Should they go every temple, shrine, literature, etc and strike it from use because a bunch of idiots and racists, i.e. the Nazi, decided to use it as their symbol? I don't think so. Same for the Confederate flag.

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I'm well aware of the history of the swastika. I have been to Tokyo and seen how it is used there. I see your point but there's no parallel with the confederate flag. The swastika's roots are in the East, where it has, for millenia, represented something which has essentially no relation to it's meaning in the West, regardless of why the Nazis chose it. In Europe the link with Nazism is unavoidable and would certainly come up if the swastika was featured in a prominent symbol.

What I'm talking about is the use of the confederate flag in the south as a symbol of southern heritage. This isn't about telling the British or whoever to stop using some flag that the conf. flag was based on. One cannot erase the fact that the flag came into being to represent a movement that wanted to prolong slavery and destroy this nation. It was revived in the 20th century by another movement which tried to portray civil rights as nothing but interference by Northerners. It is wrong for state govts to try to sanitize this history by pretending the flag is just a benign symbol of "heritage".

Sorry you feel that way but you are way off base.  Another example of where this happened is the Swastika.  The Swastika was perverted by the Nazi's into something inhuman considereing what they did to 6 million Jews.  I will let you do your own research on why they chose this particular symbol, but in developing their cult, they adopted a Buddhist symbol.  In reality the swastika is  Buddha and Shinto religious symbol that has been use for centuries and is still in use today.  You can find it all over modern Tokyo.  Should they go every temple, shrine, literature, etc and strike it from use because a bunch of idiots and racists, i.e. the Nazi, decided to use it as their symbol?  I don't think so.  Same for the Confederate flag.

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The war was never about slavery though many have this misconception. It was an issue of States Rights over Federal Rights. Our present day assumptions and concepts did not exist then, nor were there any precidents which legally would stop any State from leaving the Union. The resulting war came not from the secession but the fact that the South attacked the North. This war was fought, the South lost, and the states were forced back into the Union. The flag represents all of those in the South that lost their lives following their State governments (and the law at the time). Anyone understanding history knows it is not a benign symbol of "heritage" as much blood was lost over it.

Should we go back to every Southern city and tear down the Confederate memorials too?

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The war was never about slavery though many have this misconception. It was an issue of States Rights over Federal Rights.

And slavery didn't hold a prominent place in this issue? If it didn't, then why did 200,000+ free Blacks and runaway slaves fight for the Union cause?

At any rate, I am in full agreement with Frederick Douglas on this one, who said, "The American people and the government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time, but the 'inexorable logic of events' will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery."

Is there any sizable segment that fought for the South that wasn't in favor of slavery?

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The war was never about slavery though many have this misconception.  It was an issue of States Rights over Federal Rights.  Our present day assumptions and concepts did not exist then, nor were there any precidents which legally would stop any State from leaving the Union.  The resulting war came not from the secession but the fact that the South attacked the North.  This war was fought, the South lost, and the states were forced back into the Union.  The flag represents all of those in the South that lost their lives following their State governments (and the law at the time).  Anyone understanding history knows it is not a benign symbol of "heritage" as much blood was lost over it. 

Should we go back to every Southern city and tear down the Confederate memorials too?

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The Civil War ranks as America's second deadliest war after World War II.

And slavery didn't hold a prominent place in this issue? If it didn't, then why did 200,000+ free Blacks and runaway slaves fight for the Union cause?

At any rate, I am in full agreement with Frederick Douglas on this one, who said, "The American people and the government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time, but the 'inexorable logic of events' will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery."

Is there any sizable segment that fought for the South that wasn't in favor of slavery?

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You misunderstand. The Confederacy was not fighting to keep slavery or the instituation intact. Slavery of course was a horrible institution, and anyone with any sense would have run away to fight for the other side. But that doesn't prove anything except that the slaves didn't like being slaves.

In the Civil War, slavery was certainly an issue, but it was NOT the modus operandi of the South.

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Of course the slaves didn't like being slaves (who does?), but there was at least the perception in their minds (as well as those of free Blacks) that fighting for the Union would give them a greater chance at freedom, and this would seem to go beyond the general fact that slavery was established in the South but not really in the North (although a few slave states remained part of the Union), but because a predominant issue was the toleration of slavery in the southern states.

I understand that slavery wasn't the ONLY issue on the table, but it certainly figured prominently into the whole ordeal, more than it seems that monsoon is admitting (unless I'm misunderstanding his whole position).

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I honestly understand both sides, and for any person to suggest that not supporting the confederate flag as being PC or not historically literate is the same as suggesting anyone that does support the flag as being a bigot. But in my mind it becomes irrelevant 140 years later the reason why the war was fought - it is what the result was, freedom for Blacks in the south.

In another sense, a very legitimate claim for Adolph Hitler was that Germany was unfairly descriminated against after WWI. The ultimate conclusion of course to Hitler's madness was world domination - but what many early supporters, including non Germans, believed that Germany had a rightful claim to certain territories. Of course we know what the result was - but my point being, that is another historical fact that has been clouded over by what Hitler did become notorious for, extermination of millions of Jews. This is of course a gross comparison - but the end result is far more relevant than what the initial cause is.

I am not an apologist though - my ancestors fought in the Civil War, one ancestor dying in Virginia & one imprisoned in Tennessee. But even as the war is one example of result being more significant than cause - the flag is also. Officially the flag was reinstated in southern states to commemorate the fallen soldiers & veterans, but the end result was to stregthen the gap between white southerners & black southerners by using the flag as a tool to oppose integration.

One thing that appears to be forgotten when flag supporters claim how the flag represents southern culture & heritage - it doesn't represent Black culture & heritage, who are equally southern as Whites.

(I suppose I'm a hypocrite - I intended to stay out of this b/c I think the flag issue is a very overblown issue)

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