Triangle road & traffic thread

[NCMike1981]

Yeah apparantely the state is going to be shifting funding away from the fast growing urban centers of the state and moving that money to the economically depressed towns down east in hopes of spurring development there....*sigh*

[NCMike1981]

Can businesses really survive long term on a Jersy Freeway type road where people can't make left turns? I suppose that the state can turn enough major intersections into interchanges if they had the money, allowing people to do semi u-turns, but that seems like a very expensive option....

[orulz]

Slightly off topic, but another large thoroughfare in the triangle that desperately needs to be upgraded with a few grade separations is US15/501 between Chapel Hill and Durham. The traffic there is pretty awful.

Next up should be completion of the US64 freeway between Cary and Apex.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Hwy 401 improvements from Raleigh to Fayetteville is another good "High Priority" Project on that list.

Wondering when it says 55 North to 55 South does that mean that I-40 to 55 North will be left out. That be sort of dumb to have a gap there right throught the research triangle park?

Any insights into this?

[ChiefJoJo]

One thing to consider on US1, is the opening of US64/264 around knightdale. It now creates a freeway link to I-95 from I-440, which probably makes any upgrades of US 1, betw 440 and 540 redundant, from a regional and interstate perspective. Any expressway upgrade of Capital Blvd in this stretch would be uber-expensive (see Independence in Clt) and time consuming. I also think TTA should take advantage of the gridlock on US1 with the regional rail system--eventually, they may be able to provide time competitive travel alternative to Capital.

Living close to downtown and having a short against-the-grain commute to work, I have always thought that mass grid lock outside of downtown was great. Pay the price for making poor decisions I say to those stuck in traffic. The mess outside of town will hopefully send the value of my place sky high as people start to vie for limited downtown space, so when I retire one day I can have a nice spread way out in the wilderness with solar panels, pure well water, and all the trappings that allow me to be self sufficient and off the grid.

That's why I live DT and walk to work each day!

[ChiefJoJo]

Wondering when it says 55 North to 55 South does that mean that I-40 to 55 North will be left out. That be sort of dumb to have a gap there right throught the research triangle park?

That means the Western Wake Freeway, from NC55 in RTP through Cary and Apex to NC 55 in Holly Springs.

[willrusso]

Charles Meeker has refused to endorse the state's spending plan that spans seven years for transportation improvements in Wake County. High priority projects include a 12 mile section of I-540, a traffic signal upgrade, and the extention of Falls of the Neuse Rd. The state plans to postpone the new section of 540 and did not pledge the expected amount toward the signal upgrade. Story can be read in full here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/growth/st...p-9241557c.html

On a side note, why the heck is the state spending all this money building 4 lane highways to nowhere in Eastern NC. I'm sure farmer joe doen't have to deal with traffic jams every day while sitting on his tractor. I just don't understand. This new policy of taking money from urban areas and giving more money to the rural areas doesn't make sense to me. Do they expect Eastern NC to magically turn into this economic engine? I see no one burning up the road to live in the middle of a tobacco field LOL. Okay, I'm off my soap box now. Just my $0.02.

[closeminded]

It's funny they would do something like that, especially since Raleigh's roads are already behind times.

[Jerseyman4]

On a side note, why the heck is the state spending all this money building 4 lane highways to nowhere in Eastern NC.  I'm sure farmer joe doen't have to deal with traffic jams every day while sitting on his tractor.  I just don't understand.  This new policy of taking money from urban areas and giving more money to the rural areas doesn't make sense to me.  Do they expect Eastern NC to magically turn into this economic engine?  I see no one burning up the road to live in the middle of a tobacco field LOL.  Okay, I'm off my soap box now.  Just my $0.02.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are taxpayers east of I-95 and I-40 that deserve a fair share of highway improvements since eastern carolina is large part of the state since two lane roads is not the way to travel today. If there are little to no projects to go around instead by bringing a large chunk exclusively to the metro areas only, it would make eastern carolina and the remaining rural areas of the state undesirable for new commerce and new residents to establish anything while increasing travel time. In eastern carolina, US 64, US 264, US 117, US 17 and in my opinion on the last one, NC 11 are major eastern carolina routes connecting the major towns. The tourism industry is also growing along the coastline as well so highways leading to the coast and within the eastern carolina region needs to have reliable transportation. By looking at Virginia, many highways are four laned statewide so pretty much anywhere you go in the state, theres no place that is seriously economicly depressed along its major arterials. That is fairness to bring economic oppurtunity for the all residents living in urban and rural areas.

[kcdavis88]

There are taxpayers east of I-95 and I-40 that deserve a fair share of highway improvements since eastern carolina is large part of the state since two lane roads is not the way to travel today. If there are little to no projects to go around instead by bringing a large chunk exclusively to the metro areas only, it would make eastern carolina and the remaining rural areas of the state undesirable for new commerce and new residents to establish anything while increasing travel time. In eastern carolina, US 64, US 264, US 117, US 17 and in my opinion on the last one, NC 11 are major eastern carolina routes connecting the major towns. The tourism industry is also growing along the coastline as well so highways leading to the coast and within the eastern carolina region needs to have reliable transportation. By looking at Virginia, many highways are four laned statewide so pretty much anywhere you go in the state, theres no place that is seriously economicly depressed along its major arterials. That is fairness to bring economic oppurtunity for the all residents living in urban and rural areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, exactly. I don't think we should underestimate the economic impact of our rural neighbors in Eastern NC. Depriving outlying areas of transportation resources not only decreases their economic viability but also stymies potential arteries of transportation INTO Raleigh, further depressing our own economic flow.

There must also be some recognition of the reality that a certain percentage of our urban populations will be drawn to more rural areas over time, due to cheaper land. Whatever you think of suburban sprawl, thousands of people choose to live in these areas because they provide an opportunity for investment in land and property that would otherwise be unavailable in more urban areas. This process of diffusion into more rural areas also helps keep urban real estate prices somewhat in check. If everyone remained in the cities, there would be fewer available units of real estate which would drive the prices up even more which affects those of us who DO want to live in the cities.

I think providing sufficient funding for transportation projects outside of Raleigh helps to keep this in check, while lifting the economic prosperity of the state overall.

[orulz]

kcdavis88, agreed.

The truth is - large metros can afford to take some of the burden for road improvements on themselves, as evidenced by the recent bond issues in Raleigh. Poorer, rural areas simply can't. If the state doesn't fund it, then it will never get done. The burden on each individual taxpayer would be far too great.

If 100% of the money collected from gas taxes in the cities always stayed in the cities, some of the rural counties would still be stuck with dirt roads. Same goes for the donor state / recipent state argument on the national level. Rural areas are vital to the survival of urban areas and we need to recognize that.

I'm not denying that there are pork projects going on down east. But there's plenty of pork being slopped about everywhere - here too.

In the Triangle, our congestion does not come from a lack of investment in roads. Our congestion comes from poor planning and haphazard development patterns that makes it normal for everyone to drive 40 minutes or more to work every day.

[JunktionFET]

I am glad money is being diverted to the eastern part of the state. Like Jerseyman4 says, it is a large part of the state and deserves a chance to compete with some of the smaller piedmont communities that have benefitted from major freeway projects in surrounding metro areas.

North Carolina is taking a very progressive approach--spreading the funds to help spark urbanization (on some level) to a majority of the state. The same can't be said for a lot of our neighbors, especially some of those to the south.

I can deal with potholes here, and I'm sure transplants from NJ or PA are more that familiar with pothole avoidance I would rather see some of the money for maintainence diverted to help accelerate some of the much needed expansion projects. Of course I'd rather have both, but given a choice, I'd go with the latter.

[NcSc74]

Did anyone wonder why the coastal towns that are hundreds of years old are still small population centers. It is the fact that they isolated from the commerce that comes from major highways. In order to compete there must be connectivity to the rest of the east coast and beyond. Look at Wilmington for example. It is just now reaping the benefits of being connected via 40. I agree with easing congestion in metro areas but money needs to be spent back east also. Remember we have another state port at Morehead City that is not served by a controlled access highway. How can it compete with Hampton Roads, Charleston, Savanna, Baltimore, Brunswick, Jacksonville etc...if no one knows it is there and it has a two lane highway as its main means of connectivity. I think 70 ends at Morehead City but it is no 4 lanes all the way there.

[orulz]

Remember we have another state port at Morehead City that is not served by a controlled access highway. How can it compete with Hampton Roads, Charleston, Savanna, Baltimore, Brunswick, Jacksonville etc...if no one knows it is there and it has a two lane highway as its main means of connectivity. I think 70 ends at Morehead City but it is no 4 lanes all the way there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The NC port at Morehead City is really intended to handle large quantities of bulk goods, which ships best by train, rather than containers - which are better suited to trucks. Morehead City happens to be the terminus of the North Carolina Railroad (which needs improvement too, but that's another story). You're right - it definitely needs better highway access if it is to show up on the radar screen in the face of Norfolk or Charleston. Perhaps the focus of Morehead City's port on bulk goods is a product of its poor highway access and its nature as the terminus of the NCRR, rather than the other way around..

[NcSc74]

The NC port at Morehead City is really intended to handle large quantities of bulk goods, which ships best by train, rather than containers - which are better suited to trucks. Morehead City happens to be the terminus of the North Carolina Railroad (which needs improvement too, but that's another story). You're right - it definitely needs better highway access if it is to show up on the radar screen in the face of Norfolk or Charleston. Perhaps the focus of Morehead City's port on bulk goods is a product of its poor highway access and its nature as the terminus of the NCRR, rather than the other way around..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah your are right I think it is the second largest port for rubber in the counrty I do believe so I guess something good has come out of the deal. I just think our coastal communities have so much to offer and it is just a shame that really no one know about them. Take New Bern for example. It was our colonial capital but not too many people ever make it out there to see that there is a lot of history on our coast. We don't have to go to VA or SC to see the beginings of our country.

[skizzot]

There are a lot of roads that need to be widened in Raleigh, and the road bonds don't cover all of them.

So... in your area, what roads need to be widened or improved.

I live in NW Raleigh and Leesville Road from Lynn to Westgate Road needs to be widened. They are only going to widen it past 540 and from Lynn to Milbrook. Also Ray Road, Howard Road, and Strickland Road from Creedmoor to Leesville needs to be widened.

[waynehead]

Lake Wheeler Road south of Raleigh. Rock Quarry Road in Eastern Raleigh (from 2 lanes to 4) - anyone who's been out there on a weekend when there's something going on at Alltel knows this. I think eventually hwy 70 north and south of raleigh will need to be widened to 6 or 8 lanes...or a bypass will need to be built.

[raleightransplant]

The one that stands out to me (and anyone I've ever talked to) is Wake Forest Road north of the 440 beltline. There is no room in your lane there (even though there are 3 each way), and it is fairly nerve racking if you ask me!

[skizzot]

I guess another one is Six Forks Road from North Hills to I think Wake Forest Rd. There are so many cars and the lanes are very skinny

[ralex231]

Old Wake Forest Road and Six Forks

[JunktionFET]

Tryon Rd in Cary is slowly being widened, and it has needed it for years... I remember traffic stacking up for several traffic light cycles back in the 90s.

Did they ever finish construction on Lead Mine Rd?

Also Rock Quarry Rd definitely needs some attention.

[skizzot]

Yeah, Lead Mine is all finished and it is really nice. It is much easier to get to the YMCA, Baileywick Park, and Six Forks from where I live.

[Jerseyman4]

The beltline (US 1/I-440) between I-40 by Cary Towne to Wade Ave needs it VERY badly. At least US 1 between I-40 and US 64 is seeing a widening project so thats a start along that stretch of highway.

US 1 needs to be 6 lanes up towards the northern end of the Youngsville bypass from I-540. Begin design process studies on signal removals north of I-540 as well so traffic continues to move between north Raleigh and I-85. US 1 should be 8 lanes between I-540 and US 401. Although the city of Raleigh and/or NCDOT will probably not do this, remove all traffic signals between the beltline and I-540 but thats just my dream of that happening!

US 1 needs to be upgraded between US 64 and NC 55 to 6 lanes (hell, why not 8!). The NC 55 re-built interchange was a waste of money and i believe it did little to improve the traffic situation from before. It should of been converted to a single point urban interchange.

[JunktionFET]

I agree about I-40 from Wade Ave down to US1/64/I-440. The freeway squeezes from 6-8 lanes down to 4 lanes on that portion, it is in a place that sees quite a bit of commuter traffic. During rush hour this is always quite a bottleneck. It's only logical to at least expand it out to 6 lanes so that it matches the freeway east of the US1/64/I-440 interchange.

Speaking of which... I know I've said it before, but that interchange needs to be rebuilt at some point. I envision a stack with at least 2 sets of high speed ramps (flyovers)--one for US1 northbound to I-40 westbound, and one for I-40 westbound to US1 southbound (might be too difficult to implement due to space). Another nice addition would be a high speed ramp for I-40 eastbound to US1 northbound. Those cloverleafs are bursting at the seams during rush hour, especially if you load them up with trucks.

In time US1 south of Cary towards Apex will need additional lanes. The new 8-lane portion from Tryon Rd to I-40 will be excellent once it is completed. I will definitely be happy when the construction is over. They are making progress--seems to have slowed down lately, but is still moving. A lot of the sound wall on the northbound side from Cary Pkwy to Walnut St is up. That tract is growing in density and thru-traffic volume, and it won't be long before the 8 lanes are bogged down.

[orulz]

I think all four ramps at US-1/I-440/I-40 could use a high speed conversion. Actually high-speed ramps can take up less space than a full cloverleaf. The gain is not just from the removal of collector/distributor lanes; If they do it right, the ramps themselves can be more compact, since they're stacked vertically.

Are we to assume that, coming from Raleigh, two of the lanes will curve to US-64, and two will continue to US-1? I wonder which of these roads has more traffic. Something tells me it's probably US-64, even though it's not a freeway.

RE the original topic, I-440 north of the 1/64/40/440 interchange needs to be widened as well.

Around where I live (western Wake Co) there are a bunch of roads that need to be widened as well. This isn't exactly Raleigh, but hey, this is the Triangle forum, isn't it? NC55 and Davis Drive turn into parking lots every day at rush hour, like clockwork.

There is, of course a plan to fix this, plus a bunch of realignments and new interconnected collectors and thoroughfares, so that this whole part of the region will eventually resemble a sort of wavy, curvy grid. What gives me pause, however, is that all this has less to do with congestion and much more to do with "supporting infrastructure" for the inevitable residential boom that I-540 will bring to the area. Hoo-ray for sprawl.