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Triangle road & traffic thread


uptownliving

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The city of Raleigh has only grown by 15 square miles over the past 5 years. This does not account for the large population growth. The existing space inside the city limits is far from being filled in, thus the overwhelming majority of growth is occuring inside the established city limits, not in new areas being annexed. Raleigh doesn't exactly annex at the drop of a hat.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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Good pictures. The I-440 Beltline was even worse than that--from Six Forks Rd all the way through to Tryon Rd in Cary (both directions in some places, though the worst was southbound/outer beltline). Hell... Six Forks Rd itself was pretty much stuck in both directions this evening.

This is my first recent experience with North Raleigh rush hour. I still live in Cary but now work in an office waaay up Six Forks near Strickland Rd. So far I've done nothing but complain to myself in the car. I knew rush hour sucked up there, but I wasn't prepared for how much it sucked. I actually think that I had it better when I commuted to RTP on I-40. :lol:

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It's funny how bad the traffic is in North Raleigh, but there are no plans that I am aware of that will alleviate the problem. The TTA doesn't address the problems around Glenwood all the way up to Falls of Neuse. More buses? I don't think this would work either. There is no room to add more lanes of road. Any suggestions on how the city should help this problem?

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They should syncronize the lights better at key intersections and not allow stop lights less busy streets/intersections to remain green for so long. Falls of Neuse/Sixforks/Creedmoor/ and especially Capital need serious help.

Also I suggest upgrading Atlantic Avenue to major thoroughfare status. It's an under utilized often forgotten road at current state. Also they need to stop playing around and extend Sixforks to Capital Blvd. It's silly how that major road just dead ends just south of the highwoods area.

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This is not a problem that will be solved easily, because it has its roots in our insatiable lust for a suburban auto-oriented lifestyle.

What could really solve the problem?

1. Rip out many existing cul-de-sacs and turn them into minor through streets. Disallow cul-de-sacs in new construction. Require interconnectivity and logical street layouts in new subdivisions. Each minor street will carry only a fraction of the traffic on the major roads, but if you have 25 coninuous streets rather than 5 massive, ugly highways, traffic will be much more manageable. This is why traffic ITB just "works".

2. Stop sprawling. Build offices and residences around hubs (downtowns, etc.) that can be easily served by high-volume mass transit. TTA hopes to work towards this end.

There is no quick-fix, and more thoroughfares with more lanes may curb the problem for 5 or 10 years, but it'll always come back. In order to solve the problem, people need to recognize WHY traffic is so bad (and the answer is NOT "we don't have enough freeways!") and come to a consensus that will keep it from getting worse.

Ha. Fat chance.

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orulz, you're right and those are some good ideas--tell that to the ("growth at all costs!") politicians though! :lol:

They should syncronize the lights better at key intersections and not allow stop lights less busy streets/intersections to remain green for so long. Falls of Neuse/Sixforks/Creedmoor/ and especially Capital need serious help.

Raleigh is working to fund a computerized signal system which will help signal timing and coordination.

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I've noticed problems with the lights. They act like a long line of double-doors that open and shut at the same time. You only have enough time to go through one before the one in front of you cuts off.

They should function like christmas lights, creating a flow of reds greens and yellows that coordinates in each direction all along the road. After a certain number of seconds after your light turns green, the next one up should turn green, and so on, and so on. It can be timed for the ETA from one intersection to the next on a street.

And yes, we need less culdesacs. Everywhere should go somewhere else, so that traffic spreads over every bit of pavement available, instead of segregating a large percentage of pavement to a small set of residents.

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The idea is common on Maryland highways but will this become the new thing within the Raleigh city limits?

From the article:

Some critics have questioned the cost, and some do not like more roadside clutter.

If signage is posted below the traffic control sign (if its signalized or not) along the same support, how is that clutter? How about removing roadside clutter related road signs (unofficial signs[like mammas BBQ turn right]) where motorists must squint and spend seconds trying to figure out what it means then stopping/slowing down causing back ups.

Heres an example of a at-grade non-signalized sign

The picture may not be the best but if the font is large and positioned properly, its NOT CLUTTER!

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They also have these signs all over Northern VA to aleart you to the next steet(s), etc. My wife grew up in Southern VA and when she came up here it was very helpful to her in order to get to know the area. Up here as in Raleigh there are many roads with different names then the road on the other side of the intersection and signs like that are very helpful in situations like those.

I've notcied some areas of Raleigh with signs alerting you to the next road in the intersection ahead, but not many. I wish they would become more prevalent so that when I move there in the spring it will help me navigate and get to know the area better.

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My sister once dated a guy who said,"The first time I saw that stop sign I didn't see it."

What would they put on the sign approaching the intersection where Lassiter Mill magicly becomes St. Mary's St. and White Oak Rd. magicly becomes Scotland. Do they intend to mark where you turn right to stay on Blue Ridge or you magicly are on Duraleigh? (which magicly becomes Millbrook?)

THIS IS NOT THE BIG PROBLEM WITH RALEIGH'S STREETS, Y'ALL.

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My sister once dated a guy who said,"The first time I saw that stop sign I didn't see it."
I don't know where this is leading up towards. Maybe the stop sign needs to be bigger?

What would they put on the sign approaching the intersection where Lassiter Mill magicly becomes St. Mary's St. and White Oak Rd. magicly becomes Scotland. Do they intend to mark where you turn right to stay on Blue Ridge or you magicly are on Duraleigh? (which magicly becomes Millbrook?)

I am familar with some of those areas but i dont understand what you are saying.

Along the US 401 bypass in Fayetteville, the northern half is known as Country Club Drive and the southern half is known as Skibo Road. The city also has many streets with name changes so in the last 10 years i believe, the city erected signage indicating street name changes at intersections. I do not know if Raleigh does this though.

THIS IS NOT THE BIG PROBLEM WITH RALEIGH'S STREETS, Y'ALL.

The problem with Raleigh (and cary) roads is the sprawl that occurs out on country roads and some are turned into small scale 45mph grass/tree lined boulevards carrying high volumes of traffic. Thats a primary reason for vehicle congestion in many southern cities with endless cookie cutter developments. With that said, the name changes at one time were probably adjacent roadways very near each other (in another words, two VERY close T intersections). When development occured in rural territory, connected the two streets together as they were likely widened from 2 lanes to 4 & 5 lanes. Finally, possible re-alignments off the original path of the highway could of also happend to properly connect the roadways nearby.

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THIS IS NOT THE BIG PROBLEM WITH RALEIGH'S STREETS, Y'ALL.

In the parts of town where bulldozers "corrected" topography to the point that every intersection looks the same, you are correct -- this is not a problem. But in places with unique natural character where they just threw down some dirt (and later asphalt) and called it a road, there are a dips, hills, curves, "hidden" side streets, etc. that justify these signs.

The problem with Duraleigh/Millbrook, Wake Forest/Falls, Edwards Mill/Creedmoor, Western/MLK, Peace St./Clark Ave, etc. were that those roads were originally far from each other but were extended to the point that they became one single road. This is confusing, but is better than the "new" road inbetween the two having a totally different name.

I think the Duraleigh/Millbrook-Glenwood intersection and a couple of others is better signed now by hanging both names for the cross road and arrows indicating which direction they are for.

As bad as things are here, Charlotte is worse.

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^Yes there was an article in the N&O yesterday about the surplus. The article said that it wasn't an enormous amount of money though and that the state wasnt yet sure of what they would spend it on. Traffic light synchronization should be priority number 1, although improved signage isn't a bad idea either. Anything to help the traffic situation is a very good thing.

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I like the idea. These signs have been all over Cary for a while now. They convey a very simple message and add nothing to clutter... in fact I think they look quite nice. It is a stock yellow diamond sign with the standard stoplight logo, but beneath that it has the name of the upcoming cross street in black characters.

I've seen a few in Raleigh as well and I support the expansion of the project. Ironically I noticed one of these signs on southbound Six Forks Rd at Millbrook last night after hearing about this thread. :)

In time I think Raleigh should look into emulating Charlotte with its street signs. Charlotte has a standard street sign system which spans the entire city. They are very legible and since it's standardized, everyone knows where to look for them and how to read them efficiently. They are also attractive and incorporate the characteristic "Crown" icon, followed by the cross street name, then the block number.

Raleigh could copy that model, even down to the icon--using a "capitol dome" icon instead of a crown... or something like that :D It would cost money of course and I certainly don't propose this be done as a high priority or anything. I just think it would go a long way to straighten up Raleigh's streets and make everything obsessively consistent (like Charlotte) and tidy looking.

A synchronized traffic light system is definitely a high priority though.

Regarding the bulldozing comment earlier... Man, I hate the way our new roads and freeways are dumbed down to the nth degree now. NC's grading and straigtening work is too much. I like roads and freeways with character, not these new mindless straight and flat slabs of pavement. I've seen cuts on I-540 and other newer freeways and I can't help but think WHY. I can understand the large ones and small ones, but these intermediate sized cuts are a waste of money. Just make it a damn hill and live with it!

If I-540 was built back when the original Beltline was built, you better believe there'd be a lot more rolling hills and curves. Back then there was an expectation that you be at least somewhat competent and observant while driving--apparently that expectation is gone today. Blame it on cell phones, mobile media, crazy radio ads, ill-handling SUVs, and lousy driver education.

I'm done now. :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was watching the morning news on WRAL this morning while getting ready for work and I saw that they talking about making the parts of I-540 tolled to speed construction.

Does anyone else think this might be a bad idea? Geez, not everyone will ride the darn loop if they have to pay tolls. This will not alleviate any traffic woes. Everyone will take the old/cheap route. Wasn't there a budget surplus I heard about a few weeks ago?

http://www.wral.com/news/5529486/detail.html

Yet, just another example of how bad sprawl is. I realize individuals like Mayor Sears in Holly Springs has an obligation to his citizens, but people should have weighed the commute situation before they decided to locate there. Do you think people will ever fully understand the downsides to sprawl? I think the TTA would be a better use of money. Then, people in Holly Springs can move closer in and commute by train.

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I don't know what to think. It would speed up development in southern wake county, but also contribue to sprawl. It would make my drive home to visit my family in Garner from my apartment in Durham a lot easier, but then my family's home in southern wake county might not look the same by the time I got there, what with all of the inevitable 500 home subdivisions that would pop up near all of the off-ramps. And why should the people south of raleigh have to pay to drive home when those to the north don't? It's a tough issue.

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I would be in favor of tolls only when the road is payed off that the tolls are removed. If we're talking about a toll between lets say US 1 in Holly Springs to US 64 bypass in Knightdale, the toll should be $2-3 to travel the entire length. This may cost a lot implementing this idea but they ought to do what the ETR highway (ONT 407) does in the Toronto metro area by charging the exact amount from the beginning point entering the highway to the desired ending point which calculates the toll. For example, if going from the US 64 bypass to I-40 in Garner, the toll could probably be $1.50 and thats a lot better than charging $3 tops. At the end of the month, a bill is sent to where the car is registered. Money can be saved by not hiring personnel at the toll booths and constructing toll booths.

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I like the idea of the toll, I really dont want to wait till 2020something for an outer loop to be developed. If it can speed up this quick than so be it as long as they take away the tolls when they are completed with it. I mean if NCDOT does not have the funds I think that is an appropriate resolution.

If you have been to Chicago, I don't think people will stop driving a toll road because there is a cheaper route. Its all about how fast and how convenient... <----(what America is based on)

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