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Triangle road & traffic thread


uptownliving

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Signal coordination is a major need for Raleigh. On a recent drive down Western Blvd from downtown to Jones Franklin, I got stopped (I kid you not) at every single stoplight!! I couldn't even accelerate to the speed limit before I had to hit the brakes for the next light.

There's no sense in that.

Dawson & McDowell are great examples of how signal coordination helps flow. They should be the norm, not the exception.

What time of day were you traveling in that direction?

Western is heavily geared for inbound traffic in the morning and outbound traffic in the evening. In my experience, it has some of the best signal timing in town, as long as you're headed in the right direction. Going the other way all bets are off.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Following up RaleighRob's post last week, the N&O has road closings in downtown Raleigh for Saturday 4/26.

- salute our troops parade - F Street north around the Capitol to the State Govt mall (old Halifax street)

- a 5k at 5 pm from Glenwood towards Cameron Village

- street party/concert on North Street, near Hi 5/Bogarts/Red Room

Also, the world beer festival is taking over Moore Square most of Saturday as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

WRAL & N&O on the Clayton Bypass apparently opening a year early.

When I saw the WRAL article, it actually frustrated me a bit...

"We're anticipating it will alleviate a lot of traffic in Clayton. We have commuters heading to Raleigh, to Research Triangle," said Berry Gray, Johnston County planning director. "Now we're anticipating that we'll see more growth spread east, more into central Johnston County."

Towns like Smithfield expect to benefit. New construction has been underway for years in anticipation of the new highway.

"There's just a lot of people from the Triangle looking at this area, not only for commercial growth, but also office and residential," said Downtown Smithfield Development Director Chris Johnson.

This will be nothing more than a commuter highway for the most part. Now, more and more people will be able to move further out into Johnston Co and still commute into Raleigh, and--God forbid--RTP. Thousands of people will buy crappy tract homes in the boonies and hit I-40 traffic and then proceeed to complain that they are stuck in traffic, paying $4 gas, and ask why are they not getting ahead. We spend 100s of millions of state taxpayer dollars on a sprawl-inducing, tax base-draining, commuter highway, while we ignore the possibilties that rapid transit can offer in terms of sustainable development patterns, especially when there's a state-owner railroad (NCRR) that follows almost exactly the same route as US 70 into Raleigh and RTP from Johnston and Wayne counties.

The local planners say they are prepared for the coming "smart growth"... yeah, and Brier Creek is mixed use. :rolleyes: Why not ask the local govts to fund part of the road with TIF districts around the interchanges and take some of the burden off Joe taxpayer? We discussed this idea before with the 540 western wake project. Fueled by the coming superhighway, the land owners around the interchanges sell off their farm land to developers for huge windfalls essentially on the backs of the taxpayers. Why don't I just drive down there and give them a personal check for $10 myself, and we'll skip the state middleman. My only hope is that gas stays priced high enough such that many of these future developments are priced out of reach for the potential exurban buyers.

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^ You hit the nail on the head there. I knew this was going to be the trend back when the project was announced.

Funny how the current path of US 70 in Clayton used to be a bypass itself... yet growth all along it was allowed.

Same thing in Goldsboro. They're planning a US 70 bypass...regardless that the current one through there was supposed to be the bypass. And I believe we've done the same thing for US 264 in Wilson.

Bypasses of bypasses....and plenty of suburban sprawl to go with it.

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It is a shame that "you clogged it, you fix it" doesn't apply to Johnston County. Instead, the rest of the state pays for their mistakes, and they plow ahead with making the same mistakes over again (more more more!) It is a good deal for them to not have to raise impact fees or real estate transfer fees when everyone else foots the bill for their 22 new bridges and 10 miles of four land highway. US 70 was already built to freeway standards from west of Smithfield/Selma to east of 95. There isn't much industry that way, so the roads built with tax dollars are not to attract jobs but to make Johnston County homes and strip malls more atrractive.

Signs for the new bypass are already up and covered on 40. The "business" designation over the current US 70 to Clayton from I-40, with a temporary blank green piece covering it. The sad thing is this project drew money from the DOT area that also incudes Wake County. I-40 from the Wade Ave split to 1/64 had to stay at two lanes each way while Fred Smith, umm I mean Clayton, got a bypass for the uncontrolled growth (Super Wal Mart, other shopping centers) on their old bypass. All the while sucking life out of the original downtown (slowly improving due to arts while the swelling population barely notices) built on the train tracks that are still maintained.

I-40 will still be two lanes each way down there (for now), so the congestion will be somewhat relieved and shifted.

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It is a shame that "you clogged it, you fix it" doesn't apply to Johnston County. Instead, the rest of the state pays for their mistakes, and they plow ahead with making the same mistakes over again (more more more!) It is a good deal for them to not have to raise impact fees or real estate transfer fees when everyone else foots the bill for their 22 new bridges and 10 miles of four land highway. US 70 was already built to freeway standards from west of Smithfield/Selma to east of 95. There isn't much industry that way, so the roads built with tax dollars are not to attract jobs but to make Johnston County homes and strip malls more atrractive.

Signs for the new bypass are already up and covered on 40. The "business" designation over the current US 70 to Clayton from I-40, with a temporary blank green piece covering it. The sad thing is this project drew money from the DOT area that also incudes Wake County. I-40 from the Wade Ave split to 1/64 had to stay at two lanes each way while Fred Smith, umm I mean Clayton, got a bypass for the uncontrolled growth (Super Wal Mart, other shopping centers) on their old bypass. All the while sucking life out of the original downtown (slowly improving due to arts while the swelling population barely notices) built on the train tracks that are still maintained.

I-40 will still be two lanes each way down there (for now), so the congestion will be somewhat relieved and shifted.

Please note that the Clayton bypass has more to do with the entire US 70 corridor east of Raleigh than it does with Johnston County growth (http://www.ncdot.org/doh/preconstruct/tpb/SHC/studies/US70/). I started school at NC State in 1995 and since then, I have been making the long drive to number to visit family. US 70 is one of the most important corridors in the eastern part of the state and for the sake of regional and statewide mobility, the bypass of Clayton is a necessity.

I do agree that local governments need to take better steps to manage growth. However, the growth that we have had in not just Wake County, but Johnston, DUrham, Orange, Franklin, and other surround counties are partially responsible for the Triangle being what it is....still one of the best places to live.

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Please note that the Clayton bypass has more to do with the entire US 70 corridor east of Raleigh than it does with Johnston County growth

Well, yes and no.

As I said above, the current alignment of US 70 at Clayton was the original bypass around town. But the town and/or county allowed so much growth along it (shopping centers, fast food, etc), that it became clogged...and could not be widened. So in essence, the new bypass is going to be a bypass of a bypass. Same thing's gonna happen in Goldsboro and already happened in Wilson. What good is getting a bypass if you're just gonna allow unfettered growth & sprawl to clog it, and need an entire new bypass in 20-30 years?

It's certainly not a unique case in this state unfortunately.

Hopefully, DOT is learning from past mistakes and recognizing that these communities will not control growth on their own along these important corridors.....so DOT are now making most of these bypasses Controlled Access. (Which, frankly if they did that from the beginning, we'd be better off now.) Better late than never, I suppose.

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WRAL & N&O on the Thousands of people will buy crappy tract homes in the boonies and hit I-40 traffic ...

Except, it will no longer be the boonies, if it is even the boonies today. That area will soon have its own new shopping centers, malls, restaurants, and theaters. Johnston County has four growth-inducing assets: 1) proximity to Raleigh-Durham; 2) I-40; 3) I-95, 4) and a whopping 792 square miles of land.

Whether we like it or not, urbanization/suburbanization will extend to central Johnston at least to I-95.

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Hopefully, DOT is learning from past mistakes and recognizing that these communities will not control growth on their own along these important corridors.....so DOT are now making most of these bypasses Controlled Access. (Which, frankly if they did that from the beginning, we'd be better off now.) Better late than never, I suppose.

But if I understand you correctly, it is impossible for the new bypasses to become clogged with development in the same manner as previous bypasses because they are controlled-access freeways. Of course, traffic volume can clog them as surrounding areas become populated and developed, but that is the case with any road.

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But if I understand you correctly, it is impossible for the new bypasses to become clogged with development in the same manner as previous bypasses because they are controlled-access freeways. Of course, traffic volume can clog them as surrounding areas become populated and developed, but that is the case with any road.

Well, the existing Goldsboro bypass is already a freeway, yet they're going to build another bypass there, too. The road does get pretty busy, but I still don't think that a second bypass makes sense - why not re-do a couple of interchanges and then widen the existing bypass instead? Keep the business and growth close to the center of town, rather than pushing it further and further away.

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With rising fuel prices, home locations far from key employment centers (Raleigh, RTP, Universities, major hospitals) and non-differentiated housing stock from other exurban counties, the future of Johnston County can probably be ascertained by looking at other counties that are about 5-10 years ahead of Johnston on the growth curve:

Home Prices Drop Most In Areas with Long Commutes

The Washington, D.C., metropolitan area has been hit hard. Prices tumbled an average of 11 percent in the past year. That's the big picture. But a look at Ashburn, Va., about 40 miles from the center of town, finds a steeper fall.

In parts of the county, housing prices have dropped 18 percent over that same period. New construction has ground to a halt.

Realtor Danilo Bogdanovic surveyed two rows of neat, new, brick townhouses on Falkner's Lane. "These were selling for about $550,000 at the peak, which was about August '05, and they're selling right now for about $350,000," Bogdanovic said. "Fifty percent of this community has been ether foreclosed on or is facing foreclosure."

Minnesota's New Ghost Towns

The roots of that financial crisis can be found in places like Wright County, where the combination of affordable land, cheap money and boundless optimism lured builders and families chasing big homes in the kind of brand-new subdivisions they thought were beyond their reach.

The county's population swelled nearly 30 percent in the past decade. Home prices seemed to climb with each arrival, making everyone feel rich.

But the boom has unraveled as quickly as it began. While many established Wright County neighborhoods have avoided the worst of the housing market collapse, the county ranks as one of the state's worst areas hit by foreclosures.

During good times, I wouldn't choose to live in Johnston County due to personal preferences. Now, and going forward, the economic risk of my home losing value would be an even more powerful deterrent. If you're heading out there, rent, don't buy.

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I'm surprised this got missed in here:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2871176

WRAL is reporting that if funding gets approved in this legislative session, the next segment of 540 will be tolled and start construction as soon as this summer. It will then be projected to open in December 2010. The video is pretty cool to watch as well as it demonstrates the toll tech they want to use.

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US 70 gets its "third time's the charm" bypass for Clayton *and* Goldsboro while Interstates 40 and 95 remain as four lane roads. It is sad that getting members of the General Assembly from Raleigh to the beaches quicker is the major motivator for highway planning in eastern NC, with no consideration for mass transit/commuter rail, but that's how things have been done for decades. Mark Basnight can get home to Manteo quicker and supplied jobs for rual counties in the US 64 corridor for close to 20 years, but it is done now. US 264 was a pet project of Govenor Hunt and the Greenville delegation, US 70 has been the driver for the Kinston/New Bern/Morehead City politicos and I-40 was the cause for Wilmington and southern beach officials. US 17 connects the scattered dots and Fayetville loops itself to try to draw the elusive I-95 traffic, but only draws the increasingly significant military presence.

So for them to complain about the 40 widening, 540, etc. they need to recognize what they have acquired in their own backyard via the "equity" financing of NC DOT.

Also, the state conducted tests for boothless-toll monitoring technology last week. I saw them setting up on the "Umstead" bridge last week, and thought it might be toll related, but was afriad it might be speeding camera tests. It is good to see the state being proactive and going the transponder, register your plate, or pay more route. We are learning/leeching on decades of toll collecting technologies in other states and won't have to build unsightly, traffic jamming toll plazas *AND* build less needed roads quicker through private funding. The technology will be used for other toll projects in the state, not just the triangle expressway.

Getting on board with other states means out of state drivers won't get a free ride either... I could see this being used on I-95 to help fund much needed widening/repair in that corridor, if the federal governemnt allows it.

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US 70 gets its "third time's the charm" bypass for Clayton *and* Goldsboro while Interstates 40 and 95 remain as four lane roads. It is sad that getting members of the General Assembly from Raleigh to the beaches quicker is the major motivator for highway planning in eastern NC, with no consideration for mass transit/commuter rail, but that's how things have been done for decades. Mark Basnight can get home to Manteo quicker and supplied jobs for rual counties in the US 64 corridor for close to 20 years, but it is done now. US 264 was a pet project of Govenor Hunt and the Greenville delegation, US 70 has been the driver for the Kinston/New Bern/Morehead City politicos and I-40 was the cause for Wilmington and southern beach officials. US 17 connects the scattered dots and Fayetville loops itself to try to draw the elusive I-95 traffic, but only draws the increasingly significant military presence.

So for them to complain about the 40 widening, 540, etc. they need to recognize what they have acquired in their own backyard via the "equity" financing of NC DOT.

Also, the state conducted tests for boothless-toll monitoring technology last week. I saw them setting up on the "Umstead" bridge last week, and thought it might be toll related, but was afriad it might be speeding camera tests. It is good to see the state being proactive and going the transponder, register your plate, or pay more route. We are learning/leeching on decades of toll collecting technologies in other states and won't have to build unsightly, traffic jamming toll plazas *AND* build less needed roads quicker through private funding. The technology will be used for other toll projects in the state, not just the triangle expressway.

Getting on board with other states means out of state drivers won't get a free ride either... I could see this being used on I-95 to help fund much needed widening/repair in that corridor, if the federal governemnt allows it.

I wonder if in the near future, the us 70 toward Kinston will be redone/bypass because of the new tenant of the Global Transpark? Or at least be brought up for discussion? :dontknow:

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I wonder if in the near future, the us 70 toward Kinston will be redone/bypass because of the new tenant of the Global Transpark? Or at least be brought up for discussion? :dontknow:

Kinston limited access bypass on new route is in the long range planning docs...dont know if its made it onto the TIP yet. That one will have very expensive wetlands mitigation as it will go near/across a very swampy Neuse floodplain...

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US 70/258 bypasses downtown Kinston (google maps), with the business route going into the center of town. But the GTP is north of town, not really connected to the major nearby east/west roads, 70 and 264. There could be a 70 "spur" to CF Harvey Parkway, but they should have included something like that as part of building the transpark. Or did they think 258 was good enough since it (eventually) connects to 264 and 70?

I'm all for the larger areas of the state helping other areas with smaller tax bases, but the long stretches of 70 and 264 bypasses east of 95 have not been the economic drivers supporters promoted. To see hundreds of millions of dollars go on a one way trip east and then dissapear, while I-40 remained four lanes for decades through western RTP and south Durham, and is *still* four lanes from Wade to 1/64 doesn't make sense.

The triangle's share of gas taxes funded I-85 and 540 while other roads went relatively untouched. 540 should have been tolled from the beginning since it has created a sense of entitlement for every other group of 25,000 residents (*not* potential road using commuters) within 50 miles of RTP.

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US 70 gets its "third time's the charm" bypass for Clayton *and* Goldsboro while Interstates 40 and 95 remain as four lane roads. It is sad that getting members of the General Assembly from Raleigh to the beaches quicker is the major motivator for highway planning in eastern NC, with no consideration for mass transit/commuter rail, but that's how things have been done for decades. Mark Basnight can get home to Manteo quicker and supplied jobs for rual counties in the US 64 corridor for close to 20 years, but it is done now. US 264 was a pet project of Govenor Hunt and the Greenville delegation, US 70 has been the driver for the Kinston/New Bern/Morehead City politicos and I-40 was the cause for Wilmington and southern beach officials. US 17 connects the scattered dots and Fayetville loops itself to try to draw the elusive I-95 traffic, but only draws the increasingly significant military presence.

So for them to complain about the 40 widening, 540, etc. they need to recognize what they have acquired in their own backyard via the "equity" financing of NC DOT.

Well, when the head of DOT is the campaign treasurer for the Senate Majority Leader (who's from Fayetteville), you kinda understand what goes on...

Just remember this when you go to elect ANOTHER Eastern NC politician as your next governor.

Or you could elect an urban mayor who wants to scrap the whole equity formula system and distribute funds based on crazy, wacky ideas like vehicle miles and number of cars on the road...

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Personally, I'd love to elect an urban mayor who wants to scrap the whole equity formula system and distribute funds based on crazy, wacky ideas like vehicle miles and number of cars on the road, with a little equity distribution to help smaller areas join the 21st century. But Mayor Meeker isn't running.

Given the choices for govenor this year, I don't know who I'll vote for until I do more research and the candidates talk more about their platforms, not why they deserved their respective party's nomination. After years of McCrory's anti-Raleigh talk from Charlotte, I need to see some sign that vehcile miles and number of cars will apply to the Triangle, and not just Mecklenberg and surrounding counties. Though Perdue hasn't done much other than get Andy Griffin to claim her as a friend in TV ads.

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