Triangle road & traffic thread

[Raleighsfinest]

I'm sure it would improve our image to have proper lighting on all our major arteries. I think it's a waste of money though. Functionably, it contributes nothing outside of aesthetics. The last thing I want to do is to pay to make sprawl more enjoyable.

If we were talking about better lighting on city streets that are meant to be walkable and have ground retail, then I'd sing a different tune.

There's more to this city than just walking. Better sidewalks and pedestrian friendly areas would be nice, but this post is about freeway lighting. A need that would improve safety and image for the entire area. Besides, I love Raleigh, but this city is grossly behind. Pedestrian and automobile wise.

[willrusso]

I thought I was the only one who really noticed Raleigh was pitch black at night. We're probably the only metro that has no lighting on freeways. A metro of 1.5 million deserves better than that.

[NoVA20176]

Functionably, it contributes nothing outside of aesthetics. The last thing I want to do is to pay to make sprawl more enjoyable.

How about contributing to safety? I was not aware that Raleigh did not have overhead lights on their freeways...

[MR-2]

How about contributing to safety? I was not aware that Raleigh did not have overhead lights on their freeways...

Fair enough. It probably does.

[Hotlanta]

Charlotte's roads at night have lamp posts but they are never used. Here in Winston, it annoys me that we have overhead highway sinage but it never gets lit up and you're having to squint your eyes at night just to notice the faded print.

[JunktionFET]

Freeway lighting increases safety at night or during inclement weather. Take the I-440 Beltline for instance--it is increasingly becoming an "urban freeway"--in that it slices through the meat of Raleigh and experiences traffic woes in both directions, etc. Lighting on the freeway reduces driver eyestrain. When you have 50 some odd car headlights shining in your face, it makes it difficult to see the cars in front of you, the road conditions, or stalled vehicles pulled off in the emergency lanes. Most big urban cities--the ones that Raleigh is trying to model itself after, have at least a little freeway lighting. Right now, Raleigh and Cary have no lighting whatsoever.

I-40 east of Raleigh or I-540 in north Raleigh may not be good candidates for lighting, because when it's midnight, the traffic is light enough that you can get by without too much eyestrain. In the future this will probably not be the case.

However I-440, especially along the western and northern sides, is reaching that critical point. The lighting along I-85 between Greensboro and Durham, and inside the Charlotte city limits is soooo nice at night. My anxiety level drops and it makes road hazards and other cars much easier to see--especially if it's raining or snowing.

[Raleighsfinest]

Freeway lighting increases safety at night or during inclement weather. Take the I-440 Beltline for instance--it is increasingly becoming an "urban freeway"--in that it slices through the meat of Raleigh and experiences traffic woes in both directions, etc. Lighting on the freeway reduces driver eyestrain. When you have 50 some odd car headlights shining in your face, it makes it difficult to see the cars in front of you, the road conditions, or stalled vehicles pulled off in the emergency lanes. Most big urban cities--the ones that Raleigh is trying to model itself after, have at least a little freeway lighting. Right now, Raleigh and Cary have no lighting whatsoever.

I-40 east of Raleigh or I-540 in north Raleigh may not be good candidates for lighting, because when it's midnight, the traffic is light enough that you can get by without too much eyestrain. In the future this will probably not be the case.

However I-440, especially along the western and northern sides, is reaching that critical point. The lighting along I-85 between Greensboro and Durham, and inside the Charlotte city limits is soooo nice at night. My anxiety level drops and it makes road hazards and other cars much easier to see--especially if it's raining or snowing.

Those are my exact thoughts. When I drive on the beltline at night, when it's raining my nerves are completely on edge, because I can barely see. Sometimes i'm just driving off of memory. Come on Raleigh, your'e not a town.

Also when I am in other cities with proper lighting, I can just sit back, talk on my cell, eat, adjust my radio, and even close my eyes to take a nap.

[avery]

I'm sure it would improve our image to have proper lighting on all our major arteries. I think it's a waste of money though. Functionably, it contributes nothing outside of aesthetics. The last thing I want to do is to pay to make sprawl more enjoyable.

If we were talking about better lighting on city streets that are meant to be walkable and have ground retail, then I'd sing a different tune.

I agree. I think that lighting would be nice, but it is a waste of money at this time. It is not like the beltline is diifcult to navigate at night. Besides, I would rather see better lighting in pedestrian areas than I would on freeways. We have our car headlights for the time being.

[Eastwestrob]

If you take a look at "earthlights" you will notice that Raleigh does not show up as bright as the other large metro N.C areas do...I think this may be because of no freeway lighting. I would provide the link but no longer have it.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I guess I feel the opposite way. I don't see well and especially at night and have bought an Eye Surgeon a Porche to have the sight I have, but I don't have that much of a problem seeing at night. I have little "depth of field" vision with my sight problems and have to be very careful behind the wheel at night. When it rains, yes, it is bad, but I am not sure lights will greatly improve that.

I guess I just don't see lighted highways as a "big enhancement" or means Raleigh is b"ehind." In fact, I think it puts us ahead. I think one of the reason the beltline is not lit is because of all the neighborhoods that surround the beltline now.

I think the main reason is that ground light kills the view of the sky. We have so many trees and then add a bunch of high powered lights and it knocks the view of the sky out. Some may say that is not important, but to many people, including myself, being able to see the sky is a great advantage.

If you travel much, here in the US and Europe, you will notice that ground lighting is kept to a minimal for that very reason. Go to a city like Scottsdale, San Jose or Denver/Boulder and you don't see lit up highways. (They remind me of the Hwy 70/Hwy 401 fork in the road near Lowes in Garner where there use to be a Drive in Theater. When it turn to a porno theater, they got big highways lamps and pointed them toward the road so when you looked up at the screen, you could not see the "action", just the bright blinding glair of light bulbs.) Even though Paris is "the city of lights", they do a great job of keeping it to a minimal.

For a cost reason, that is why the roads have so many reflectors as they provide better guidance at a much lower "lifetime" cost, especially replacement.

Again, in an area that may have water or a bridge or hairpin turn, it may be worth it. But not just to light up the city to make us look "grown up." I think cities get away from that for a reason.............and have lights in places for a reason when needed.......

It is like taking your date into your Den/Living room. You don't want to turn on every light in the room along with the TV so you can say "Look at ME !" You want just enough light to set the right tone and mood.

[Damien]

I actually think that highway lighting causes glare on wet roads. I would much rather drive on a non lit highway while its raining, than a lit one for that one reason.

[dmccall]

It is like taking your date into your Den/Living room. You don't want to turn on every light in the room along with the TV so you can say "Look at ME !" You want just enough light to set the right tone and mood.

[JunktionFET]

I actually think that highway lighting causes glare on wet roads. I would much rather drive on a non lit highway while its raining, than a lit one for that one reason.

I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I think there's a bit more to it than that.

The glare from car headlights is far worse and the situation is aggrivated by the fact that the glare intensity is highly variable, causing your eyes to adjust a great deal over a much wider range. If the road is wet, there's going to be glare from any light source. However the consistent presence of dim amber-shifted lighting is much easier on the ol eyeballs in an area that sees a lot of traffic.

We've all gotten used to driving on dark freeways around here. But if you spend any time in a place with well placed lighting, you'll quickly see the virtues.

[Damien]

^I understand your point, but it's probably the last thing on the NCDOT's mind since they're so concerned with paving their way out of all the traffic problems.

[NcSc74]

It doesn't surprise me that NCDOT is not concerned. They are so backwards and caught up in so much red tape that the state will be lucky to get one of the projects that are started finished.

[bdp]

light pollution bothers me, as i love a starry sky... so highway lights have never been a concern of mine. give me a few years when my night vision goes and i may feel differently though. i actually never even noticed that our highways were underlit. usually when driving somewhere with highway lights i just think of it as a huge waste of electricity. i can see your points though about safety...

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Just move to Fuquay Varina then. We have street lights along 401....lol

For real, we do.

Why they are there I have no earthly idea. It makes no sense at all. It feels like your driving into some big city though. lol

Then after about two miles...they are gone...its really strange

[Tayfromcarolina]

Yeah Fuquay does have those lights on 401. I think they should light up certain portions of the beltline maybe from like new bern ave north to wade avenue and then again in the 40/440/US1 corridor near Cary & SW Raleigh. I would almost bet that when the US1 widening project from apex to 440 is complete there will be lights along that stretch. That will be a nice project when finished.

[pack-man]

and I thought that I was the only one who noticed this problem.

I've been thinking about this for a couple of years and I always wondered why these lights were never installed. Like in Greensboro/Burlington.

Raleigh's interstates are heavily travelled and those are the standards the DOT's base their decisions on to install these lights.

The section on 40 through Umstead is so dark at night, and you have 4 lanes of traffic. I guess the DOT knows that with all the jams there every night they won't have to worry about installing lights.

This area is far behind when it comes to simple things like lights on the highways/interchanges. I don't understand it. I don't see anything improving considering the current situation the DOT is in. It probably won't ever happen.

Maybe one day our DOT will get better and try and compete with the Carolina to our south, they have their act together.

[orulz]

Perhaps ChiefJoJo can answer this. Is there a de-facto standard (ie, an equation or something) for determining whether freeway streetlights are needed? Or is it purely a budget issue where Greensboro's division had money left over in their allocation for the lights, while Raleigh's division did not.? Or, alternatively, is it an entirely political issue?

Inquiring minds want to know. Although we will understand if there is no answer.

[dmccall]

Ever since I saw a deer out on I-40 doing the hokey pokey in the 3rd lane one dark night, I've wanted lights all the way down the highway. Deer don't have taillights, and cars don't so much when they are spinning around off the walls trying to avoid the deer. Scary night.

[NoVA20176]

On second thought, maybe Raleigh should not put up light poles on highways...

Disappearing lights

[dmccall]

"They steal everything here in Baltimore," said Lynn Smith, manager at Modern Junk & Salvage Co. "Nothing's too kooky to me anymore."

[pack-man]

I know at some point the amount of lanes that the highway has takes a precedent when these lights are to be installed. In I-40's case, pretty much from 15-501 all the way to 70-Garner exit should have lights. I wish an NCDOT person would share some light on this subject matter for us.

Also, I do find it hard to believe that the message boards were installed only for abducted children. Although that is a great cause, that doesn't happen enough to justify those boards just sitting there blank. At least they could say "have a nice day" or "smooth sailing ahead"

I understand NCDOT is pushing hard to compete with other states when it comes to live incident management, but one wouldn't know that from driving on the highways.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I know at some point the amount of lanes that the highway has takes a precedent when these lights are to be installed. In I-40's case, pretty much from 15-501 all the way to 70-Garner exit should have lights. I wish an NCDOT person would share some light on this subject matter for us.

Also, I do find it hard to believe that the message boards were installed only for abducted children. Although that is a great cause, that doesn't happen enough to justify those boards just sitting there blank. At least they could say "have a nice day" or "smooth sailing ahead"

I understand NCDOT is pushing hard to compete with other states when it comes to live incident management, but one wouldn't know that from driving on the highways.

Coming in from RTP, I do see "Lane congestion next 5 miles" or something like that during rush hour on the sign boards. Which is helpful but considering I am moving at 5 mph, not sure how helpful. I wish they would say things about the arena as you get to that area like "Arena Event tonight".

To add to that, I would even like to see something like "Hockey Game tonight, Arena Traffic stay to the right" or "Hockey game tonight, take exits 279".

To take even further, I would not mind seeing "Hockey Game tonight: Rangers vs. Canes, 7:00pm. Tickets at the gate and while you are at it, purchase your Subway Stretch Season Pack for 9 games and Playoff priority Prices start at $99 ---Call 1-866-NHL CANES"

OK, maybe the last idea went a little too far !!! But since the city council would only allow the arena put such a pitiful small sign on Wade Ave, they need some help