Triangle road & traffic thread

[dmccall]

I agree. Those signs on 40 are a joke. I know someone who used to be in that dept. and their philosophy is that change creates accidents. In other words, they think that if they put anything up there, it will be a distraction from driving. Conversely, if something is always up there, it is more likely to be ignored, like the Canes sign on the beltline.

I agree with with you, though. The default message on I-40 East before Harrison ought to be "Maintain Speed Up Hill" (people creeping down to 50 mph on Harrison is what causes most of the afternoon backups). Messages signaling arena events or accidents would really help people, I think.

Anyone know what the deal was with the two electronic message boards that were installed on Wade Ave. near "Edwards Mill Rd" are all about? They were put in when the arena was being built, but have never been turned on.

[ChiefJoJo]

After some digging on the DOT website (tough to navigate) ... this is the NCDOT lighting policy.

Essentially, it is a formula that accounts for nightly traffic volumes, crash history, geometrics (alignment, lane width, sight distance, etc.), and initial and annualized cost (maintenance).

I don't know what that formula is, but if you have a freeway with a high nighttime traffic volume (I-85 would probably be the best example) and it has a moderate crash history, it probably will warrant lighting. I would bet that nightly traffic volumes are the biggest factor in the equation, but of course with money tight these days, it is probably on of the first things to be cut in a "value engineering" analysis. It's also possible that some roads have been fitted with conduit initially (part of the startup cost), and once the warrant is met, the light poles can be added. Remember that the cost to be considered is not just the initial cost, but the maintenance cost over time as well. It's also important to note that municipalities can and do pay for lighting on DOT roads. That might apply to US 401 in Fuquay-Varina (mentioned earlier), where I would bet the town paid for some or all of the cost of lighting the roadway.

As for I-440, it was widened in the mid 90s, and probably had relatively minor nighttime traffic (as compared to daytime rush hours) at that time (serves mostly commuters), and probably just did not warrant the cost... probably the same for I-40, although with both roads increasing traffic each year, if they were widened now, they might justify lighting.

[Transplant]

Around the intersection thats being built by TTC, the DOT is installing some lighting.

As far as those overhead signs go, i agree they are a joke. I am have only seen them turned on for an Amber Alert. Which is great, but they should be used more often. I was driving under the one on west bound I40, just before I540, during the I40 widening. The overhead sign was blank, but there was a portable sign notifying me of construction. What the puck is that? just seems like a waste......

Also, GO CANES!

[Raleighsfinest]

Our NCDOT budget is highly anemic. I was so impressed with the Hampton Roads transportation system, that now i'm stuck with alot of envy. Heck I envy many places around the south. I just wish Raleigh could be more of a "recognizable" force. I hate it when someone on TV mentions Raleigh on TV it always has to be Raleigh NC.

[bdp]

if you pay attention, they always put Charlotte, NC too. it makes me laugh because I know it pisses some people off that Charlotte still is not considered well known enough to drop the NC. hahahah

[dmccall]

But not without effort. Charlotte even went so far as putting "Charlotte, USA" on their non-NBA evnet basketball court in the old coliseum. Pretty nauseating if you ask me. Hey, if they want to drop the NC, we can just take their tax money and not send it back.

[Transplant]

I'd rather it say "Raleigh, NC" than "Raleigh-Durham". That really bothers me.

[Jerseyman4]

One of my pet peeves but i think if your IN North Carolina (or any state for that matter), theres no reason to be like "sometown, NC". I always refer to city and county always or ill go as far as saying eastern NC, central NC, western NC, outer banks, mountains, by charlotte, by raleigh... i cringe if i have to say "xxxxx, NC ". Even with the town of Washington, ill say "little" washington if im in NC. I just plain out refuse to say Washington, NC!

NJ people are the worst with this, good god! Even in my own freaken county, first they are "something, NJ" and then half of the people in Middlesex County, from the northern part, never heard of the towns in the southern part of the county and vice versa! Maybe someday, Urbanplanet may make a difference in geography small mindness

[Miesian Corners]

You don't want lights on your freeways in Raleigh. The state can't keep the lights on once installed. I-77 and I-277 are and have been dark for about three years now, despite the fact they both have light poles running in the median strip.

[MR-2]

One of my pet peeves but i think if your IN North Carolina (or any state for that matter), theres no reason to be like "sometown, NC". I always refer to city and county always or ill go as far as saying eastern NC, central NC, western NC, outer banks, mountains, by charlotte, by raleigh... i cringe if i have to say "xxxxx, NC ". Even with the town of Washington, ill say "little" washington if im in NC. I just plain out refuse to say Washington, NC!

Why do people do that? Do they assume nobody knows what or where their city is? Everyone should know about Raleigh and Charlotte by now. There are no other notable Raleighs or Charlottes in any other state, so there isn't much room for confusion.

[Jerseyman4]

There are no other notable Raleighs or Charlottes in any other state, so there isn't much room for confusion.

So far, there has been no confusion yet between Charlottesville & Charlotte to my recollection.

[MR-2]

So far, there has been no confusion yet between Charlottesville & Charlotte to my recollection.

Charlottesville is a great little mountain town, but it won't show up on any large maps.

I take back what I said about capitals though, because Columbia SC and Columbus OH will probably get confused without the state abbreviation, even though they're both capitals.

[bdp]

I think what we are talking about is how our cities are referred to on the news... often like this 'Phoenix, San Francisco, Denver, Boston, and Raleigh NC round out the top 5 cities...blah blah blah' (and you know most charlotteans want that NC dropped so badly when it pops up for them) you have to remember most news is reported on, what, a fifth grade level? they assume people are very. very stupid... usually. that's my take on it anyway.

[Jerseyman4]

I was watching WSOC-TV on sunday morning and they finally dropped the "NC"! Now its Statesville, Iredell County or Lincolnton, Lincoln County. Thats a lot better!

[pack-man]

The stretch of I-85/40 through Alamance/Guilford county has so many lights out, its pathetic. How hard is it to change a couple of light bulbs at 4am. If there is a section of highway that warrants lights, it would be the whole beltline and I-40 near the airport. Those roads are always busy.

Hampton Roads area is very impressive. Everything is very well lit and the roadway system there is very advanced. It seems while NC was concentrating on paving more roads than any other states, those other states were using their money to upgrade the ones they already have.

[pack-man]

Just something I noticed the other day. I-85 through Durham is getting streetlights. It is being done with all the new construction.

[pack-man]

I believe this project got completely scrapped for the Triangle

[Justin6882]

haha, wow, we brought up an oldie goldie here...

[DanRNC]

I think this actually helps the TTA ridership projections.

[ChiefJoJo]

Nope--the HOV/HOT project is still in the works, but it's a very long way out--a 2030 CAMPO Project (see Part IV--very large pdf!).

[Hotlanta]

Why couldn't the NCDOT have added the lanes when they widened the road a few years ago? I understand the budget crisis and all but it makes more sense to me if they had added them from the beginning instead of going back and tearing up new road.

[waynehead]

Because that makes too much sense for the DOT to do it.

[Jones_]

A $2 Million study on what to do with I-40 in Raleigh and Durham has been completed and found that it could take 25 years and $400+ Million to build HOV lanes.

Its good to finally see the Triangle get some bad news from NCDOT, but a 25 year delay seems to be on the extreme side to me...maybe a 5 or 10 year delay that the NCDOT typical puts on projects for Charlotte and the Triad would be fairer.

Details here:

http://www.news-observer.com/front/story/2...p-2650280c.html

funny how comparable the prices for HOV lanes and TTA rail are...wonder how the impacts compare...I imagine pretty similar per dollar also.....funny how some folks are all about HOV lanes but hate commuter rail....

[sax184]

The word "delay" is inaccurate. There has never been a dime available for HOV in the Triangle, nor have we yet identified one in the future.

HOV lanes would generally require some flyovers to be truly effective.

Also, if you look at the benefits of HOV versus public transportation, HOV and operational treatments generally fare poorly compared to transit.

I recommend reading the gold standard study for this question: The Texas Transportation Institute's Urban Mobility Study. View page 2 of this six-page PDF and look at the delay savings of transit and HOV compared.

Combined effect of Transit and Operational Improvements (PDF)

[Transplant]

Nope--the HOV/HOT project is still in the works, but it's a very long way out--a 2030 CAMPO Project (see Part IV--very large pdf!).

This site is excellent. It highlights that the limited vision for the people that put these things together. The Commuter Rail is the only fixed guideway system in the plan. And that only goes down the current rail corridors. Its sad that they couldn't identify a Light Rail, or Trolley that would go through areas where there are currently dense areas.

The site also highlights the vision problem with the HOV lanes. Why is there nothing, not even in the unfunded plan, to suggest a need for HOV on 440, or 540? Yes, 440 may be too difficult and costly, but I540, lots of room.

It is also disccouraging that there is no a plan to upgrade US1 from I440 to I540 to a freeway. This would also be a candidate for HOV, I would think.