Friendly Center & The Shops at Friendly

[cityboi]

You are quite uninformed about this project by your comments. Birkdale Villiage is located at Lake Norman, so yes there is a place in NC that has these shops.

This information came from winstonsalemskyscrapers.com

http://www.winstonsalemskyscrapers.com/for...sc&start=75

Prim brought-in Crosland for their long established relationships with retailers and experience building these villages. I would expect all chains! Crosland will design, build and be in charge of leasing to retail tenants. I think he wants this to be simi-upscale, sort of like Crosland's other village-style developments. Afterall, it is located in an area with large Victorian mansions, expensive condos and this development will also likely have expensive residences. Crosland looks for population and wealth with-in 1-5 miles, easy highway and major road access and areas with a high daytime population for their retail developments. That described downtown very well. I have a strong feeling the tenent mix will be similar to some of their other developments like this one. He also wants this to be a destination. Winston-Salem doesn't really have anything like that when it comes to retail.

http://www.crosland.com/properties_service...se_development/

Birkdale Villiage is not located in uptown Charlotte thats the difference. You may prove me wrong at some point but I have a hard time believing these stores are coming to downtown Winston-Salem. If downtown Winston can have them, downtown Greensboro can too because its roughly the same demographics. If somebody were sayin they believe downtown Greensboro were getting these kind of stores in the near future, you'd think they cracked there head. Uptown charlotte has a population of around 12,000, many are upper middle class to upper class condos plus the surrouding neighborhoods yet uptown doesnt have any of those kind of stores. I check crosland website out and found several of their developents that did not include those kind of stores. The Crosland development in Nashville has JC Penny, Best Buy and Belk but I didnt see any Bananna Republic, Any Taylor or Brooks Brothers type retail. Crosland's developments vary from location to location and it appears what kind of stores their developments have depends on what the market allows. I did see alot of local retail in some of their developments.

Edited March 5, 2007 by cityboi

[triadguy37]

If somebody were sayin they believe downtown Greensboro were getting these kind of stores in the near future, you'd think they cracked there head.

I live in downtown Greensboro, and NO, I cannot see these types of stores coming to downtown since they are already located at Friendly Center, but Winston Salem does not have a Friendly Center 2 miles from downtown. The area where the ballpark is going to be located was recently annexed into the center city. This is why I say these retail shops will be downtown. Actually in the West End, West Salem area, next to the ballpark. It is the developers intent for these retail shops to be like Birkdale Villiage. There will also be a movie theater there. I cannot say what retail shops will be there at this time, but it will be a lot like what Friendly Center has to offer. Winston-Salem is not trying to be like Charlotte. Just because Charlotte does not have retail downtown, does not mean that it cannot happen in Winston-Salem. As you have said, indoor malls are becoming a thing of the past. I think Billy Prim has seen an opportunity to turn a run down area into a destination place. You cannot compare downtown Greensboro, to downtown Winston-Salem, they are completely two different places. I like the small town feel of downtown Greensboro, and the activity on Friday and Saturday nights, especially during warm weather, i have to say is impressive, but I think it will be short lived. I think its just a phase that will pass. DGI needs to foucs on getting more jobs, retail, and other things that anchor and balance downtown besides just a lot of bars and clubs. Once the bars and clubs go, and they will, then the people will go. I live in downtown Greensboro and there is not much going on down there Sunday through Thursday, its just on weekends, and its all centered around the bars and clubs. Downtown Winston-Salem might not be thriving on weekends like Greensboro with young bar hoppers, but in time, downtown Winston-Salem will be the preferred downtown destination of the Triad. With all of the high end condos, the Arts district on Trade, Civic Plaza, Old Salem, proposed ballpark, retail shopping, street cars, research park. These are the type of things that really anchor a downtown, and make it a popular destination opposed to a street full of bars and clubs.

Edited March 5, 2007 by triadguy37

[cityboi]

I think time will tell. I know there are high end condos for downtown Greensboro planned as well. Even Center Pointe will have some units worth about $1,000,000. I dont think weve seen the last of major downtown developments in Greensboro so I wouldnt quite say Winston's downtown will be the prefered downtown destination just yet. I also know that office job growth is really starting to pick up in downtown Greensboro, currently at a faster rate than dt Winston. Both downtowns are regional destinations though.

Edited March 5, 2007 by cityboi

[twincity]

I also know that office job growth is really starting to pick up in downtown Greensboro, currently at a faster rate than dt Winston.

huh?

[triadguy37]

I also know that office job growth is really starting to pick up in downtown Greensboro, currently at a faster rate than dt Winston.

Cityboi, i consider you the authority on whats happening in Greensboro, and I appreciate your postings, but it's obvious that you don't have a clue about what's happening in dt Winston. I do not see office growth picking up that much in dt Greensboro compared to dt Winston. I work in dt Winston 5 days a week and i live in dt Greensboro. I 'm just not seeing it. There is no comparison. How often do you come to Winston?

[cityboi]

Cityboi, i consider you the authority on whats happening in Greensboro, and I appreciate your postings, but it's obvious that you don't have a clue about what's happening in dt Winston. I do not see office growth picking up that much in dt Greensboro compared to dt Winston. I work in dt Winston 5 days a week and i live in dt Greensboro. I 'm just not seeing it. There is no comparison. How often do you come to Winston?

every day I go to Winston. I think the change in the downtown office vacany rates tell the story though. you may not be seeing it but its happening. Greensboro's downtown office vacancy rates went from like 25% to 9% within a 5 year period while Winston's only changed slightly. Then there is the latest news of two proposed midrise office buildings and a 4 to 5 story headquarters bank. 3 years ago no one would propose to build a new office building in downtown Greensboro. Also several companies moving from the airport and other suburban areas to downtown. If thats not a pick up in downtown office growth, I dont know what is.

Edited March 5, 2007 by cityboi

[ezcheese]

traffic is already pretty bad at the shops @ friendly, i can't imagine what it's going to be like when 100 people move in there as well.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

It opened in 1957 and that kind of shopping experience is just now catching on.

I wouldnt say it is "just now catching on". It was how folks shopped in 1957. It never went "out of style". I was born in the 1960's and have been going there my whole life.

traffic is already pretty bad at the shops @ friendly, i can't imagine what it's going to be like when 100 people move in there as well.

Indeed! I guess the hope is that folks that live there will walk while they are within the Friendly Center community.

[StevenRocks]

Indoor malls could become a thing of the past and outdoor lifestly malls will be popping up all over the country. Friendly Center was way ahead of its time. It opened in 1957 and that kind of shopping experience is just now catching on.

Friendly Center was pretty much a standard shopping center of its era. It was extremely popular from 1957 up until around 1974, fell into a dark period for about twenty years, and started regaining its footing around 1995 or so. It's not state of the art, and hasn't been for decades. It succeeds because of its location and the retail mix.

The shopping center industry swings from enclosed to open-air every few years. I've done years of research on the topic and I've found no singular type of shopping experience ever dominates for long. Developers overbuild, stores go out of busness, neighborhoods change.

I wish Friendly Center the best because they're a strong shopping center that has all the right ingredients to succeed, but I wouldn't close the door on enclosed malls just yet.

Edited March 9, 2007 by StevenRocks

[StevenRocks]

So I saw that condos are going up here, the question is what about that 4th supposed department store anchor pad?

Good question. I don't know what it'll be.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

It was extremely popular from 1957 up until around 1974, fell into a dark period for about twenty years,

I do not ever recall this "dark" period you speak of. It may be more popular now(perhaps because more people live in Greensboro than ever before) ...but it never had a period of time where it was not a major player in Greensboro's retail. (except when it did not exist) Remodels have happened, businesses have come and gone...but something always replaced what left and traffic has always been challenging there at best. Edited March 10, 2007 by ILoveCallingNCHome

[StevenRocks]

The department stores never left Friendly (other than Paul Rose), but it was looking and feeling a bit old back in the '70s and '80s, when Four Seasons and Carolina Circle were very popular. I remember going there back then and thinking the place looked really dated, with a lot of stores like Woolworth's and Lerner's that weren't exactly hip back then.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

I remember going there back then and thinking the place looked really dated, with a lot of stores like Woolworth's and Lerner's that weren't exactly hip back then.

I always felt it had a timeless look and feel. I miss woolworths (there and elsewhere) and never felt it didnt fit in. I loved scott seed and the ordinary grocery stores ....but I also love it now. Like I said, I never remember it being dated or having a dark period. We went there all the time for various reasons--and still do.

Edited March 11, 2007 by ILoveCallingNCHome

[Pillsbury]

I went to the new shops this past weekend. Very cool if I might say so myself. The Harris Teeter is the biggest grocery store I've ever stepped foot in. Downtown was also very cool--- a lot has changed over the last few years.

[StevenRocks]

I finally got a chance to check out the new HT the other day. I can see why they have seating areas at each end of the store

That store is huge! The meal replacement section makes up the bulk of how much bigger it was than the old store, but it is massive in its own right, though admittedly not as cool looking as the HT flagship at Morrocroft in Charlotte.

[DigitalSky]

though admittedly not as cool looking as the HT flagship at Morrocroft in Charlotte.

Agreed. That store has its own charm no other HT can match...

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

I saw this on the news tonight. I was surprised to see this property up for sale. It sort of reminded me of when the Koury Corporation sold The Four Seasons Town Center.

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/pages/Home/...mp;pageId=1.1.1

[roningreensboro]

I saw this on the news tonight. I was surprised to see this property up for sale. It sort of reminded me of when the Koury Corporation sold The Four Seasons Town Center.

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/pages/Home/...mp;pageId=1.1.1

This is a shock to me, I thought they would hold onto such a valuable property. I just hope that Starmont shift their interest to downtown Greensboro.

[DigitalSky]

This is potentially big. It could bring the likes of Nordstrom and Saks to friendly, just as happened when Belk sold SouthPark to Rodamco/Simon

[cityboi]

This is potentially big. It could bring the likes of Nordstrom and Saks to friendly, just as happened when Belk sold SouthPark to Rodamco/Simon

you are right. this can be a very good thing and a new owner can bring more high end stores to Friendly Shopping Center. While Friendly may be an outdoor mall, its actually more popular than Four Seasons which has been plagued with shootings, murder and more recently robbery. incedents like that led to the downfall of Carolina Circle Mall and now we are seeing it at Four Seasons.

[DigitalSky]

I also sense that we'll see Sears re-located and rebuilt in order to make room for another department store and extra shops. Or at least remodeled, it so reminds me of Sears SouthPark right now, because the Sears Parking lot is prime location for a Nordstrom.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

I also sense that we'll see Sears re-located and rebuilt in order to make room for another department store and extra shops. Or at least remodeled, it so reminds me of Sears SouthPark right now, because the Sears Parking lot is prime location for a Nordstrom.

Who actually owns the land that Sears sits on there? Is it Sears, Friendly Center or ? I know it is considered a part of Friendly...but that doesnt mean Friendly owns the land or the building. Just curious if anyone knows.

[Mr Downtown]

This is potentially big. It could bring the likes of Nordstrom and Saks to friendly, just as happened when Belk sold SouthPark to Rodamco/Simon

I cant see either Nordstrom or Saks coming to Greensboro. The demographics just dont compare to other markets in which these stores are in. Not so much in terms of population, as the Triad has more people than say Richmond, but more in terms of having the number of higher income households needed to support a free standing store.

However, I can see the day that Dillards either closes its Four Seasons store, and moves to Friendly, or just keeping a store at Four Seasons and building a new one at Friendly. I think Greensboro could support 2 Dillards like it does 2 Belks, and 2 Macy's. (It will always be Thalheimers to me )

[ezcheese]

here's a drive by of the new bb&t building at friendly

[googlevid]5053670267313719990[/googlevid]

[StevenRocks]

I don't think this potential sale will will turn Friendly into an upscale Mecca or signal a downfall at Four Seasons.

Demographics will tell the tale of high-end Friendly will go, and I have a feeling Sears isn't going anywhere, though I'm sensing a number of you would gladly kick out a long-standing, profitable tenant from a spot they likely own just so we can have a cookie cutter upscale mall just like eveybody else. I like Nordstrom, too, but what would Nordstrom add to Friendly other than prestige? Not a hell of a lot.

Just like Sears is (likely) staying put, so is Four Seasons. The mall is healthy and popular and has lots of hotel and convention traffic that offsets the less-upscale parts of its immediate trade area. The crime aspect is seriously overblown by the media and by people who arre bothered by the large number of youths that hang around the mall on weekends. Fact is, most of the kids don't bother anyone, and the crime aspect is no worse than any other mall of its size.