Friendly Center & The Shops at Friendly

[JerseyBoy]

While the Brooks Brothers stores are upscale, they aren't as elite as say Hugo Boss or Ralph Lauren. They are generally more common then those types of stores previously mentioned. It's a nice start on getting more upscale chains in the Triad area but I think we'll all agree that it's not an Hermes. It would be my guess that The Cheesecake Factory relies on a denser and more affluent population (like coastalmindset stated). While the Triad is getting there, it's not there yet. I'd say wait about 5 years when the HOT (Heart of the Triad) starts to take off and developers decide to build a new regional mall in that area where all upscale stores/restaurants that come to the Triad will be located in. This gives them an opportunity to draw from all 3 major cities (almost 4 if Kernersville keeps growing at its pace).

[cityboi]

True..Brooks Brothers is more common..One thing about Brooks Brothers though is that with exception to Greensboro, all of their stores (not talking about outlet stores) are located in major US cities or VERY wealthy communities. So while other stores are more elite than Brooks Brothers, BB is still an elite chain. But it is a nice start for Greensboro though.

Here is the list of Brooks Brothers retail store cities

-Birmingham

-Scottsdale, AZ

-San Jose

-San Diego

-Los Angeles

-Beverly Hills

-San Fransisco

-Denver

-Greenwich CT

-Wasington, DC

-Miami

-Atlanta

-Chicago

-Indianapolis

-Des Moines

-Wichita

-Kansas City

-Louisville

-New Orleans

-Baltimore

-Boston

-Detroit

-Minneapolis

-St Louis

-Las Vegas

-New York

-Charlotte

-Raleigh

-Greensboro

-Columbus,OH

-Cleveland

-Cincinatti

-Pittsburgh

-Philadelphia

-Charleston, SC

-Nashville

-Memphis

-Knoxville

-San Antonio

-Dallas

-Houston

-Richmond

-Virginia Beach

-Seattle

-Milwaukee

I have noticed in general that Greensboro tends to be listed among these cities in other lists for other things.

Edited July 20, 2007 by cityboi

[Rufus]

not to be a stickler for details, but you left off Raleigh as a store location. they have one at Crabtree Mall. But back onto the discussion, Cheesecake factory is not really all that great anyways, except for the cheesecake. If the owners of Friendly Center want to pursue one, then by all means try. Usually Cheesecake factories are sort of regional destinations as well. The one in Raleigh attracts people from all over, mainly during prom season for high schools. I can def. see them in Greensboro, it's just a matter of when they will come.

[cityboi]

not to be a stickler for details, but you left off Raleigh as a store location. they have one at Crabtree Mall. But back onto the discussion, Cheesecake factory is not really all that great anyways, except for the cheesecake. If the owners of Friendly Center want to pursue one, then by all means try. Usually Cheesecake factories are sort of regional destinations as well. The one in Raleigh attracts people from all over, mainly during prom season for high schools. I can def. see them in Greensboro, it's just a matter of when they will come.

You state the Cheesecake Factory is more of a "regional restaurant" if Greensboro ever gets a cheesecake factory, what do you think the probabilty of the "secret regional" project downtown landing it......not to change the topic of this thread. Would Friendly Center be a more likely location than this downtown "southeast destination" project? Also upscale retailers/restaurants usually open up one store for the entire metro region (unless its a big metro like Atlanta or Chicago) and usually these stores cluster near other upscale stores/restaruants within a mile or two radius.

Edited July 20, 2007 by cityboi

[JerseyBoy]

Cheesecake Factories tend to locate in suburban areas, not urban. There isn't much hope for it being downtown.

[cityboi]

Cheesecake Factories tend to locate in suburban areas, not urban. There isn't much hope for it being downtown.

So You feel that the Heart of the Triad would get a Cheesecake Factory?

[JerseyBoy]

Yes, but only if that area starts to boom in population and all sorts of shopping venues open up which eventually will. But, that's not to say that Friendly Center won't get one.

I hope you guys don't mind if I make this the general "Friendly Center" thread.

[cityboi]

Yes, but only if that area starts to boom in population and all sorts of shopping venues open up which eventually will. But, that's not to say that Friendly Center won't get one.

I hope you guys don't mind if I make this the general "Friendly Center" thread.

No problem at all

[Creasy336]

Friendly Center is kind of out of the way for many Triad residents. Yes I know its off of Wendover Av, Greensboro's second busiest highway behind I-40, but Friendly Center is a good distance into town which at this point in time might discourage people from making the journey. I would like to see US 70 routed down Wendover Av, this would help with recognition and navigation and indirectly increase out of town traffic to Friendly (Also make Greensboro's highway system less confusing). My first thoughts were that The Cheesecake Factory would come to Friendly Center because of the centers upscale retailers, and "newness" . It would kind of be like Charlotte's Southpark Mall in the way that it isn't easily accessible by interstate, but then I realized the amount of residents in Southpark's locale, combined with the amount of office space and destination retail that isn't offered at any other mall in the area. I have to agree with DaAchiever when he says an upscale retail location in the HOT would be an ideal location. I believe if the stand alone Macy's off of Guilford College had a new indoor section of high-end retail built adjacent to it forming a new mall, I could see The Cheesecake Factory coming then seeing how this area is visible from I-40, and close to High Point, Jamestown, and the higher end areas of Greensboro.

[nowensone]

There is not enough mass in this town to create the traffic a Cheesecake needs on a regular basis. In order to supplement the lack of actual population they would want to be in a location that is easily accessible. Unfortunately Friendly is not that easy to get to where as Four Seasons is very accessible. I think the Streets at Southpoint location is a very good example of this theory. The rooftops are not there, yet being right on the Interstate draws the crowd. So like was mentioned by DaAchiever I don't see them here anytime soon or at least until we see a significant population increase.

NO, we do have the mass for a CCF, it would be packed and constantly so, that's not homerism just basic demographics - PF Changs has been opened for some time now and one still cannot get in under an hour, and I would would equate this to the same basic crowd as a CCF. And it would also work at Friendly, which is it's own kind of animal and special destination, it really doesn't matter that it isn't accessible by interstate like with most other of their locations (that I am familiar with). Wendover/Bryan does of course provide some arterial access as well. Many things have worked in GSO that do not normally in a market it's size (Ruth's Chris for example came here before it ever should have done so), I have always assumed this is due to a greater percentage of wealth but that is simply an assumption.

[cityboi]

NO, we do have the mass for a CCF, it would be packed and constantly so, that's not homerism just basic demographics - PF Changs has been opened for some time now and one still cannot get in under an hour, and I would would equate this to the same basic crowd as a CCF. And it would also work at Friendly, which is it's own kind of animal and special destination, it really doesn't matter that it isn't accessible by interstate like with most other of their locations (that I am familiar with). Wendover/Bryan does of course provide some arterial access as well. Many things have worked in GSO that do not normally in a market it's size (Ruth's Chris for example came here before it ever should have done so), I have always assumed this is due to a greater percentage of wealth but that is simply an assumption.

I think part of the reason is that some people look at Greensboro's "small town" image as opposed to the actual demographics which proves Greensboro can support these kind of establishments. They think just because we are not is big as Charlotte, Greensboro cant support these things. Its hard convincing people that big market attractions/developments can come to the Gate City just because of the city's perception. A great example of that can be found in a "MASSIVE" thread which will remain nameless

Edited July 20, 2007 by cityboi

[JerseyBoy]

Greensboro is fortunate to have developers like Koury and Starmount that think outside the box and bring big name tenants to their projects. Your neighbors 20 miles west salivate that we were even considered for an HHGregg. But, in all seriousness G'boro's developers are much more progressive and that is what has lead to restaurants such as Ruth's Chris.

[cityboi]

I forgot about Ruth's Chris! another upscale national chain restaurant located in Friendly Shopping Center. There are two in Charlotte and one in Cary as well. If Friendly has PF Chang's and Ruth's Chris, I think they can get a Cheesecake Factory too. If you'll notice Ruth's Chris is located in either major US/Canadian cities or very wealthy cities like Scottsdale, AZ.

Another national chain upscale restaurant in the Shops at Friendly is Bravo Cucina Italiana.

Also Flemings Prime Steakhouse which is an upscale national chain restaurant. The restaurant's only NC location is in Greensboro. This is also the second upscale steakhouse in Friendly.

This could very well be in the future of Friendly Shopping Center

Another interesting fact is that the country's largest Harris Teeter is located adjecent to the Shops at Friendly.

Edited July 20, 2007 by cityboi

[coastalmindset]

nowensome:

"NO, we do have the mass for a CCF, it would be packed and constantly so, that's not homerism just basic demographics."

You are correct in that Friendly Center has the highest mass of people of any major retail centers in Greensboro. But it still falls short of the CCF's target density of 250k in a 5 mile radius. Friendly rates right about 200k people in a 5 mile radius. Now with that said, and as I mentioned in a previous post, CCF will take into account other factors. Those factors would be things such as ease of accessability and household income, not to mention area growth. I will again use the Streets at Southpoint example again: They only have about 85k in 5 miles but show an 11% population growth rate over the next 5 years compared to Friendly's 3% growth rate at 5 miles. Not to mention Streets is right at a major interstate and here is the kicker, while their population is low their median income at 5 miles is $61,000 compared to Friendly's $44,000. That is a huge difference and as mentioned before Greensboro will only hinder itself by not seeking high paying jobs instead of continuing to rely on skilled labor jobs (ie FedEx).

Now with that said the rules are always meant to be broken and with any luck, Friendly (maybe with the help on it's new owners, whoever they may be) or anywhere else in the city will land a CCF or other big name restaurant.

[coastalmindset]

DaAchiever

"Your neighbors 20 miles west salivate that we were even considered for an HHGregg."

Not to change the thread but rumor has it that HH Greg is building a store on Hornaday Road in Greensboro (next to the Macy's at Guilford College and I-40). Have you heard the same thing? Just curious if there was any truth to this rumor.

Maybe I missed this in another thread?

[cityboi]

DaAchiever

"Your neighbors 20 miles west salivate that we were even considered for an HHGregg."

Not to change the thread but rumor has it that HH Greg is building a store on Hornaday Road in Greensboro (next to the Macy's at Guilford College and I-40). Have you heard the same thing? Just curious if there was any truth to this rumor.

Maybe I missed this in another thread?

You are correct. the first Triad store will be in Greensboro at the location you mention. One will also be built in Winston as well

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2...53600%5E1486674

[cityboi]

anybody know when thet plan to start on the condos planned for the Shops at Friendly?

[JerseyBoy]

Given the current number of houses being bought in the Triad dropping I'd say Starmount has put the condos on the shelf to wait and see how the market does over the next year or two. We've had a couple of projects (248 S. Main and Fourth & Green) that have been shelved because of low demand.

[cityboi]

Given the current number of houses being bought in the Triad dropping I'd say Starmount has put the condos on the shelf to wait and see how the market does over the next year or two. We've had a couple of projects (248 S. Main and Fourth & Green) that have been shelved because of low demand.

cause I know there are suppose to be over 100 condos

[twincity]

Given the current number of houses being bought in the Triad dropping I'd say Starmount has put the condos on the shelf to wait and see how the market does over the next year or two. We've had a couple of projects (248 S. Main and Fourth & Green) that have been shelved because of low demand.

blvd centro said that they will not market 4th and green until work has finished on 4th and broad and the towns.

how did you find out about 248? i dont remember reading where beau dancy said that he was putting it on hold.

[JerseyBoy]

My mistake, I didn't know Blvd. Centro said that. I said that about 248 because a friend of a friend knows Beau and he said he didn't have enough reservations for the project, plus the site is becoming real overgrown with weeds and grass with his sign almost touching the ground.

[nowensone]

nowensome:

"NO, we do have the mass for a CCF, it would be packed and constantly so, that's not homerism just basic demographics."

You are correct in that Friendly Center has the highest mass of people of any major retail centers in Greensboro. But it still falls short of the CCF's target density of 250k in a 5 mile radius. Friendly rates right about 200k people in a 5 mile radius. Now with that said, and as I mentioned in a previous post, CCF will take into account other factors. Those factors would be things such as ease of accessability and household income, not to mention area growth. I will again use the Streets at Southpoint example again: They only have about 85k in 5 miles but show an 11% population growth rate over the next 5 years compared to Friendly's 3% growth rate at 5 miles. Not to mention Streets is right at a major interstate and here is the kicker, while their population is low their median income at 5 miles is $61,000 compared to Friendly's $44,000. That is a huge difference and as mentioned before Greensboro will only hinder itself by not seeking high paying jobs instead of continuing to rely on skilled labor jobs (ie FedEx).

Now with that said the rules are always meant to be broken and with any luck, Friendly (maybe with the help on it's new owners, whoever they may be) or anywhere else in the city will land a CCF or other big name restaurant.

I won't dispute your numbers, though they don't really tell the story, some of which is the fact that there are several 50's era cottage neighborhoods nearby that certainly offset the averages, not to mention the UNCG area of typical campus housing and incomes. The real thing is that Friendly also within 5 miles of Irving Park, Starmount, the Market street neighborhoods, Madison Ave. and the Hobbs area neighborhoods. My point wasn

[coastalmindset]

nowensone

I agree with you completely that Friendly Center, along with many other projects and ideas in Greensboro, have been very successful even though they are not cookie cutter and by the "rules". The difficult thing is that most corporations set a base model for their growth and they stick to those numbers as this model is what "works" for them. Remember that they are mostly in the game to please their shareholders/owners and to do just enough to keep their customers happy. With this in mind they know that people in Greensboro who really like CCF (this example works for most every other business as well, ie Nordstrom) are willing to drive to Streets, or other places, to get their fix. If only it were easier to convince the people at these companies who make the decisions (usually in the Real Estate Department) to look outside the box, it would make cities like Greensboro and destinations like Friendly Center so much better for all. Unfortunately it takes way too long for companies like CCF to look at other success stories and then realize they are missing out. I guess all their success says they are doing something right even though we don't like it.

I hope our retail and restaurant developments in Greensboro stay strong so we can continue to grow and get the benefit of places like CCF but it seems like we have more than we can support as it is.

[StevenRocks]

One thing I've learned in nearly thirty years of shopping in Greensboro is that there's no traditional barometer about what will appear in the market. Because the biggest malls in town are (or, in the case of Four Seasons, were) owned by local and smaller-scale developers, there's not telling what they're able to pull in at any given time, especially when you're talking restaurants and smaller shops.

Friendly Center succeeds at pushing upscale because the demographics are right for it and the management company is highly focused on the property. The numbers for Cheesecake could be a little low on first glance, but when you factor in regional traffic that comes to Friendly from as far away as Roanoke (!), they've got a chance.

[suburban george3]

My mistake, I didn't know Blvd. Centro said that. I said that about 248 because a friend of a friend knows Beau and he said he didn't have enough reservations for the project, plus the site is becoming real overgrown with weeds and grass with his sign almost touching the ground.

248 still has the website up, but only 4 units appear to be reserved. Pretty slow compared with the pace of other downtown projects I'd say. Now, back on topic...