The Village at Sandhill

[krazeeboi]

As if on cue...

J.C. Penney to leave Columbia Place mall

J.C. Penney, after about 27 years as an anchor store at Columbia Place mall, is scheduled to close Oct. 1. A new

[waccamatt]

Over the past 30 years and looking at the next census won't Richland County be predominately black if it hasnt happened by now?

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I believe for the last 30 years Richland County has been approximately 45% black, 50% white and 5% everything else. I'm a bit prejudiced because I live in Richland, but I believe it is the most balanced and diverse location in South Carolina and will grow tremendously over the next 20 years.

[krazeeboi]

I'm sure the Latino population will be significantly higher in the 2010 census.

[waccamatt]

I agree. It is creeping up, but remember, latinos can be black or white.

[krazeeboi]

Or even "other." That's why the ethnicity and race designations can be confusing for some.

[waccamatt]

Maybe, just maybe, sometime in our lifetimes it won't matter.

[DigitalSky]

As if on cue...

J.C. Penney to leave Columbia Place mall

J.C. Penney, after about 27 years as an anchor store at Columbia Place mall, is scheduled to close Oct. 1. A new

[waccamatt]

Wow! We called it, indeed. Interesting to note it's Columbia's only JCP

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With JC Penney moving so far to the Northeast I bet they will build another store in the Northwest part of town. Let's see what happpens. Unfortunately, they did just what we expected. Maybe something cool will go into the Penney's location at Columbia Place.

[StevenRocks]

With JC Penney moving so far to the Northeast I bet they will build another store in the Northwest part of town. Let's see what happpens. Unfortunately, they did just what we expected. Maybe something cool will go into the Pennery's location at Columbia Place.

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I figure if JCPenney builds another store in town, it will be in or near Columbiana Centre.

It's hard to say what will replace JCPenney at Columbia Place. Hopefully it won't be a Burlington Coat Factory or Value City. Those are usually signs of a dying mall.

[DigitalSky]

I figure if JCPenney builds another store in town, it will be in or near Columbiana Centre.

It's hard to say what will replace JCPenney at Columbia Place.  Hopefully it won't be a Burlington Coat Factory or Value City.  Those are usually signs of a dying mall.

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lol yeah i know that would be SO Eastland

But if Columbia is anything like Charlotte, JC Penney might just keep one location. There isn't a JC Penney location inside the Charlotte city limits anymore, the closest is Carolina Place... and i doubt Northlake is getting it for its final anchor pad. It's possible they could go to the Mint Hill mall - as i said earlier - but they'd probably close their Monroe mall store too then.

[StevenRocks]

lol yeah i know that would be SO Eastland

But if Columbia is anything like Charlotte, JC Penney might just keep one location.  There isn't a JC Penney location inside the Charlotte city limits anymore, the closest is Carolina Place... and i doubt Northlake is getting it for its final anchor pad.  It's possible they could go to the Mint Hill mall - as i said earlier - but they'd probably close their Monroe mall store too then.

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I think JCPenney could go either way in Columbia or Charlotte. Traditionally, JCPenney has had only one or two locations in a typical small to midsized market, but they were usually pretty large stores. Now they're building stores comparable in size to Kohl's in power centers and strip malls, so it gives them the option to open multiple stores in most markets. It's hard to speculate what they'll do.

[DigitalSky]

I think JCPenney could go either way in Columbia or Charlotte.  Traditionally, JCPenney has had only one or two locations in a typical small to midsized market, but they were usually pretty large stores.  Now they're building stores comparable in size to Kohl's in power centers and strip malls, so it gives them the option to open multiple stores in most markets.  It's hard to speculate what they'll do.

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Well.. you seem to be good at speculating

[csedwards72]

I don't think JC Penney is leaving Columbia Place because of racism; why in the world would people at the corporate headquarters in Plano care what race people who shop at Columbia Place are as long as the store gives a good return on investment? If they close a store that would give as good a rate of return as a new store just because of the race of shoppers then they are breaching their fiduciary duty to shareholders to seek good returns on investment. I'd expect that a newer development such as Sandhill will kill an aging center such as Columbia Place (just as Haywood Mall in Greenville killed McAlister Square even though both were equally "white"), and Penney executives probably think that keeping the Columbia Place store alive would require significant spending on renovations and it doesn't have much growth potential.

Eastland Mall in Charlotte is just scary; minorities I know don't want to shop there, either.

[sonofaque86]

I don't think JC Penney is leaving Columbia Place because of racism; why in the world would people at the corporate headquarters in Plano care what race people who shop at Columbia Place are as long as the store gives a good return on investment?

[StevenRocks]

With all due respect, csedwards72, JCPenney has a tendency to pull out of minority neighborhoods rather than investing in them. While it's not the only reason they close stores, it's a big determining factor for them from my observation. They're not the only retailers that do it, but they are one of the first stores to set sail when neighborhoods turn black.

If it was all about return on investment and race has nothing to do with it, then why would JCPenney leave a remodeled mall in a prime location with strong co-anchors without investing some money into the store's survival? IMO, it would make more sense from a financial standpoint to remodel the Columbia Place store and and operate both Columbia locations for several years to see if the transfer of business was strong enough to warrant a store closure.

[waccamatt]

Rockin' Stevie hit the nail on the head.

[Mr.Marc]

I'm glad JC Penney is leaving Columbia Mall. It's a boring store for women, children and older people. It's sad that it's moving to VAS. They should have put a more exciting anchor store there. Maybe they will put a more exiting anchor at Columbia Mall.

[csedwards72]

To determine whether or not JC Penney store closures are due to racism, let's look at the facts:

1. 2003 store closings:

http://www.icsc.org/srch/front/200003200571.htm

2. Recent store openings:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?...rol-newscompany

Go to http://www.sec.gov and look at JC Penney publicly-filed reports (8-Ks and 10-Ks) that show store openings and closings. There are enough store closings in "white" areas (such as downtown Yakima, Washington, which took place around the same time as a Nordstrom closing) that there is evidence that the chain closes stores in older, declining areas, regardless of race. Also, if JC Penney doesn't want to sell to minorities, why does it operate a chain of department stores in Brazil, where WASPs are rare?

[StevenRocks]

I am aware that JCPenney has made some major adjustments to its real-estate portfolio over the past few years. I am a regular reader of a number of retail news publications. In addition, I understand that stores in white neighborhoods get closed as well. None of that has ever been an issue.

That said, please consider this: a lot of the "white" stores your sources list were in dying or dead malls; in other words, malls in serious states of decline. Several of those malls are even listed on deadmalls.com. In most of those cases, JCPenney was one of the last stores to leave the white malls. Contrast this with the "black" malls listed. In most cases, the black malls lost JCPenney when they were relatively healthy or on an upswing. In fact, in a majority of the black malls' cases, JCPenney was usually the first and only major anchor to pull out.

In the case of Columbia, as well as several others that I have mentioned, the race of the customers served by the JCPenney store had a lot to do with JCPenney's apparent no-confidence vote in the locations.

Why would a compay such as this consciously move its store out to the far suburbs to a place with no public trasnportation service while leaving a great location in an area that isn't blighted or suffering? Just for kicks?

There is more to this story than simple corporate logic. Especially when JCPenney spokesperson Daphne Avila is making veiled racist statements as she did in recent articles in The State on the subject:

Looks like the Village is getting a JC Penney's. There was one statement in the article that disturbed me a little though:

[csedwards72]

You make a lot of good points; you're definitely not a crackpot; you are obviously a concerned person, which is definitely a good thing.

Which malls are the "black" malls Penney's fled? Which are the "white" malls? I'd guess that at least some of the "black" malls (such as Eastland Mall in Charlotte, which African-Americans warned me to avoid) were also dead or dying.

From what I know of Columbia, there is probably more growth potential over the next 20 years out near the Village at Sandhill than at Columbia Place; it thus makes sense to go where the growth is. Belk, Ivey's, JC Penney and Sears also fled downtown Greenville by 1980 (which was "white") just because they accurately guesed that there would be more growth potential in the suburbs, even though the downtown stores were probably doing OK. Dillard's fled McAlister Square to go to Haywood because there was more growth there, even though the McAlister Square store seemed to do OK. Retailers go where growth is expected to occur.

I just can't believe that a major corporation would close stores due to racism. If JC Penney's executives are paid bonuses based on the company's financial performance, they would be losing money from their own pockets if they closed stores that were at least as profitable as the stores that were opened. Additionally, in large corporations making any major decision requires multiple meetings and piles of documentation for making decisions. I just don't see how a person with a racist agenda could push store closings through the many steps that would be required to close a profitable, well-performing store that should not be closed for financial reasons, and if Penney execs, as a group, were racist, surely the media or investors would find out about it.

If JC Penney or any retailer closes stores solely because of animosity towards the race of customers, though, that is unacceptable and should be stopped. If I were an unwelcome customer, I certainly wouldn't shop there.

Also, FYI, Ms. Avila, the JC Penney spokesperson, is Hispanic.

[waccamatt]

I decided to do a little bit more checking on the JC Penney migration and it appears that the area they are moving to is very diverse, just as is most of Richland County.

Here is some info from the US Census Bureau

Zip Code 29223Zip Code Tabulation Area 29223city/ town, county, or zip

state

-- select a state -- Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware District of Columbia Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Puerto Rico Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming

search by address

[StevenRocks]

Which malls are the "black" malls Penney's fled?  Which are the "white" malls?  I'd guess that at least some of the "black" malls (such as Eastland Mall in Charlotte, which African-Americans warned me to avoid) were also dead or dying.

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These are from the store closing list you mentioned and from my reccollection

Closed JCPenney Stores in 'Black' Malls:

Montgomery Mall, Montgomery, Ala.

Greenbrier Mall, Atlanta, Ga.

South DeKalb Mall, Atlanta, Ga.

Shannon Mall, Union City, Ga.

Randall Park Mall, North Randall, Ohio

Landover Mall, Landover, Md.

Eastland Shopping Center, Harper Woods, Mich.

Northland Shopping Center, Southfield, Mich.

Eastland Mall, Charlotte N.C.

South Square Mall, Durham, N.C.

The Gallery at Market East, Philadelphia, Pa.

Cloverleaf Mall, Richmond, Va.

Northridge Shopping Center, Milwaukee, Wis.

Closed JCPenney Stores in 'White' Malls:

Enfield Square, Enfield, Conn.

Montgomery Mall, Bethesda, Md.

Thunderbird Mall, Virginia, Minn.

Valley View Shopping Center, Winnemucca, Nev.

Landmark Shopping Center, Alexandria, Va.

Ballston Common, Arlington, Va.

Tysons Corner Center, McLean, Va.

In the cases of the majority black malls, JCPenney was more likely to move at the first sign of decay, while at the majority white malls, the company was more likel to stick it out for the long term, holding its doors open until the bitter end

From what I know of Columbia, there is probably more growth potential over the next 20 years out near the Village at Sandhill than at Columbia Place; it thus makes sense to go where the growth is.  Belk, Ivey's, JC Penney and Sears also fled downtown Greenville by 1980 (which was "white") just because they accurately guesed that there would be more growth potential in the suburbs, even though the downtown stores were probably doing OK.  Dillard's fled McAlister Square to go to Haywood because there was more growth there, even though the McAlister Square store seemed to do OK.  Retailers go where growth is expected to occur.

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I agree that The Village at Sandhill is an excellent place to open a store for future growth. But I also feel that if JCPenney had made a go of it for 27 years at Columbia Place, they should have at least operated both locations for a while to make sure they weren't losing out on a portion of the market. The older store needs some work afte that time period, but the investment back into it could have led to potentially more sales overall for not a lot more money invested.

The case of Greenville isn't about black and white, it was about access. In the late '70s, malls emerged as the primary places to shop for most Americans. Downtown was considered old and creepy, and parking was at a premium. The growing retail choices of mid-century America would not fit into the smaller downtowns, so new facilites had to be built.

Haywood Mall was built in 1980 as the biggest and best example of the new mall paradigm in Greenville County and attracted the most interest from downtown merchants wanting to modernize. McAllister Square was a fine mall for its day, but it was overwhelmed by the proximity of the bigger, more popular Haywood Mall and lost eventually. It didn't help that Belk-Simpson had another store at Haywood and that Meyers-Arnold was fading fast as an enetrprise. Dillard's made the smart choice and moved its operation to the nearby Haywood Mall.

I know this example was put here to prove that my Columbia theory was flawed but consider this: In the case of Belk-Simpson and Ivey's/Dillard's in Greenville, both retailers maintained facilites that were close to Haywood mal for several years before closing them, giving the older or less desirable locations a chance to attempt to survive on their own. Belk-Simpson kept is McAllister and Haywood store open for nearly 18 years while the market worked itself out to declare Haywood the better destimation. Dillard's operated stores at Greenville and Haywood Malls simultaneously for about 5 years before closing at Greenville Mall when that mall finally died.

I just can't believe that a major corporation would close stores due to racism.  If JC Penney's executives are paid bonuses based on the company's financial performance, they would be losing money from their own pockets if they closed stores that were at least as profitable as the stores that were opened.  Additionally, in large corporations making any major decision requires multiple meetings and piles of documentation for making decisions.  I just don't see how a person with a racist agenda could push store closings through the many steps that would be required to close a profitable, well-performing store that should not be closed for financial reasons, and if Penney execs, as a group, were racist, surely the media or investors would find out about it. 

If JC Penney or any retailer closes stores solely because of animosity towards the race of customers, though, that is unacceptable and should be stopped.  If I were an unwelcome customer, I certainly wouldn't shop there.

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It is hard to believe that corporations created for the purpose of serving the general public could be racist when it comes to locating its stores, but it is the case many times even among the largest companies.

What happens many times is that the perception of crime and an influx of minoities into an area triggers a reaction in the real estate department of a corporation. That department runs demographic studies and confirms that the neighborhood is changing or has the potential to change. Charted out over several years, a company begains to form a hypothesis about where their buiness is headed in that location. Many times those analyses tend to be dead wrong or do not count other factors such as shoppers outside the immediate area, plans for revitalization and other factors.

In the case of Columbia Place, the perception of crime and an influx of minorities triggered a reaction at JCPenny corporate that suggested that as this mall became progressvely "blacker" (or seemed to be headed that direction), the sales would beging to fall and that the investment made in staying there would not cover the potential loss in sales.

Thus, JCPenney stopped investing in the store infrastructure and sales indeed began to fall off, as most people would stay away from a fading store in a "bad part of town," though the crime was more imagined than real.

This analysis was probably made a few years ago, when Columbia Place was still Columbia Mall, owned and managed by a different company and floundering with out of town management and a dated interior, plus an anchor in flux (Belk becoming Dillard's). What the report did not consider was a mall sale to a more regionally based company, a major renovation and the re-emergence of Macy's into the local retail mix.

By then, JCPenney's comittment to the Columbia Place market had waned, both through their own actions and the slow turnaround in getting shoppers to come out to that mall even though things had changed for the better. The depressed sales at Columbia Place led them to explore other opitions and when Sandhill popped up in a new developemnt free from the stigma of the other fading but still profitable store, they took the leap. The lack of public transportation to the site and the focus on white middle-class residents at Sandhill ment that they could serve many of the same customers without easy access to the poorer and blacker parts of the market and probably sealed the deal.

Many times, actions such as these are known to company outsiders, but potential loss of friendships and bad press keeps them from being exposed. It is swept under the rug: acknowleged with a wink and nod but never publicised.

After I realized the imapct of what JCPenney was doing to African-American and other ethnic neighborhoods, I curtailed my purchaes from them. It's a small step, but I felt it was a necessary one.

Also, FYI, Ms. Avila, the JC Penney spokesperson, is Hispanic.

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As for Ms. Avila being Hispanic, her race has little to do with her company's views. She is stating JCPenney's position in as diplomatic terms as possible; that's what good spokespeople do. If she were to say what she actually thought or the unfiltered comments given to her, I'm sure it wouldn't sound as good and could potentially get her in serious hot water with her company or the public.

There's also a little less resistance to potentially racist statements when they come out of the mouth of a minority, which is why a lot of companies keep minorities available in public relations departments. Pyschologically, statements like Ms. Avila was asked to make sound less threatening from a Hispanic woman than, say, a white man.

[DigitalSky]

^you know, I did forget that Columbia Place's Belk store swapped out with Dillard's. How far apart are Columbia Place and Richland Mall-which has Belk and Parisian?

[waccamatt]

^you know, I did forget that Columbia Place's Belk store swapped out with Dillard's.  How far apart are Columbia Place and Richland Mall-which has Belk and Parisian?

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They are about 5 miles apart.

[StevenRocks]

Columbia Place's Dillard's store has that classic '70s Belk look, too.