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The Village at Sandhill


StevenRocks

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Wow... we're really hitting on some good stuff here. :) This topic is kind of a passion of mine...

Urban flight, suburban sprawl and related cultural phenomena are largely tied to our love affair with the automobile. All of these have grown out of our culture's postwar obsession with individual freedom, independence, power and privacy.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the pursuit of many of these values, but our unhealthy, single-minded quest for these things has created a dysfunctional society -- and a lonely, distorted version of the human existence for the individual. People are starved for community and relationships -- this is part of the reason why the concept of New Urbanism has caught on (note the quote in my signature).

I'm not saying that community can't happen in malls -- suburbia's answer to Main Street -- because it obviously does in a more limited way. However, I do believe that cities are inherently relational and suburbs, by design, are not.

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Well, the fact is we probably won't ever escape the suburban shopping area. That doesn't mean they have to look like crap though. Thats what I like about Sandhill. It is a suburban shopping center, but they are making it look nice. Its a big change. The old slab of concrete with a box on it isn't cutting it anymore.

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The old slab of concrete with a box on it isn't cutting it anymore.

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I'll agree with that, but what people are tired of a lot of times is the details and not the general design.

Consider the ubiquitous Wal-Mart Supercenter. It is basically a mall without walls. The inclusion of so many categoires under one roof is also evocative of the old-school department stores. The basic design is good, if not spectacular. Yet its details are troubling. The common owner is an enemy to society, the merchandise is crappy and the buildings are worthless.

If someone who gave a damn about the community operated that store with quality merchandise and the building reflected the styles of the area, there would be loads of people praising it.

Same thing with malls and downtowns: the general design qualities of each are sound, but the devil is in the details. If we as members of the community can have some input on the details of the design: IOW having a say in what kinds of events and community functions work there, along with logistical concerns like access, downtown could come back strong or the mall could be responsive.

Just a thought :)

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Wow... we're really hitting on some good stuff here. :) This topic is kind of a passion of mine...

Urban flight, suburban sprawl and related cultural phenomena are largely tied to our love affair with the automobile.  All of these have grown out of our culture's postwar obsession with individual freedom, independence, power and privacy.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the pursuit of many of these values, but our unhealthy, single-minded quest for these things has created a dysfunctional society -- and a lonely, distorted version of the human existence for the individual. People are starved for community and relationships -- this is part of the reason why the concept of New Urbanism has caught on (note the quote in my signature).

I'm not saying that community can't happen in malls -- suburbia's answer to Main Street -- because it obviously does in a more limited way.  However, I do believe that cities are inherently relational and suburbs, by design, are not.

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This is a good discussion...

I would add to your excellent points emerging me that much of suburban growth and urban flight is also based on fear of the "other", as witnessed in city after city as African-Americans moved into previously all-white neighborhoods, and the white people pulled up stakes and headed to the suburbs.

You are right that a sense of community can happen in Malls, in fact community happens anytime you have a group of folks gathered together. The main difference between a mall/shopping center and an urban business district is that a mall is a purely commercial creation, created and controlled by a single owner, while a city is an organic entity with all the messiness of street life, diversity, weather, etc... (At least in theory...)

And Spartan, I know that shopping centers are a necessity of life for the majority of the population, which is fine. I just don't want folks thinking that places like Sandhill are a legitimate substitute for urban business districts.

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You are right that a sense of community can happen in Malls, in fact community happens anytime you have a group of folks gathered together.  The main difference between a mall/shopping center and an urban business district is that a mall is a purely commercial creation, created and controlled by a single owner, while a city is an organic entity with all the messiness of street life, diversity, weather, etc... (At least in theory...)

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Right on. I would also add... I, generally speaking, you are much more likely to be called by name at the "corner coffeeshop" than at Starbucks by the mall.

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Well, its farily evident that creating community in developments and in town infill developments are two prominent trends of the coming years. Out in the burbs people will want recreation in addition to their consumption. That concept is still being ironed out. Where I grew up in Ohio, the lifestyle center hit big in the last couple of years. I have visited many of them, and they are generally pleasent and offer a good mix of stores. However, people still haven't embraced the concept. They will shop the way they are used to shopping, i.e. go to a store and get what you need, go to car, drive to next store, repeat. This creates quite a clash with these new centers that are designed so you park once and shop. As a result, every lifestyle center I went to had absolutely horrific traffic and parking problems. In a few instances I just gave up and left. I haven't been out to Sandhill yet, so I'm not sure if it exhibits the same issues.

Factoring the ~60 year cycle for community 'depreciation', there will probably be quite a shakeup in the shopping situation in Columbia, where the most development will occur in the city and way out in the burbs, leaving a drout in the second and third ring suburbs. More people may end up going back into town to shop rather than outwards like they have done for the past 40 years.

Supposedly, inner cities will account for at least 40 percent of the total increase in U.S. purchasing power between 2000 and 2045, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

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I'll agree with that, but what people are tired of a lot of times is the details and not the general design. 

Consider the ubiquitous Wal-Mart Supercenter.  It is basically a mall without walls.  The inclusion of so many categoires under one roof is also evocative of the old-school department stores.  The basic design is good, if not spectacular.  Yet its details are troubling.  The common owner is an enemy to society, the merchandise is crappy and the buildings are worthless. 

If someone who gave a damn about the community operated that store with quality merchandise and the building reflected the styles of the area, there would be loads of people praising it.

Same thing with malls and downtowns: the general design qualities of each are sound, but the devil is in the details.  If we as members of the community can have some input on the details of the design: IOW having a say in what kinds of events and community functions work there, along with logistical concerns like access, downtown could come back strong or the mall could be responsive. 

Just a thought :)

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That is a good point, and something I hadn't considered regarding merchandise. However, what is the local style? How can you define that in suburbia (aka: generica)?

I don't think there is any one good answer to this, but I would be interested to hear what anyone has to say.

I think that downtowns are the only places with a "local style" which is what makes them attractive. Going to Two Notch Rd. isn't that much different than going to Harbison Blvd. You just have the railroad tracks..... but the stores are all the same.

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That is a good point, and something I hadn't considered regarding merchandise. However, what is the local style? How can you define that in suburbia (aka: generica)?

I don't think there is any one good answer to this, but I would be interested to hear what anyone has to say.

I think that downtowns are the only places with a "local style" which is what makes them attractive. Going to Two Notch Rd. isn't that much different than going to Harbison Blvd. You just have the railroad tracks..... but the stores are all the same.

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I don't have an answer either on how to define "style" in the suburbs. (and I'll preface this by saying it's not a great one :) ). But I guess it could be created.

Two Notch Rd. is a different neighborhood with different geography and a different demographic makeup than Harbison Blvd. There has to be something that defines these areas, and whatever that thing is, it can be incorporated into the local architecture.

In the case of Harbison Blvd., Columbiana reflects some vaguely neo-Spanish Colonial architecture. Maybe that could be the "base" for the design of the area. Two Notch Rd., with Columbia Place's '70s modern style, could take on a more modernist inspiration.

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does anyone have pics of Columbia Place or know anywhere i can see some? thx

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I wish I did. Unfortunately, those can be hard to find. I would first suggest the mall itself, but since a different company owns it than developed it, those pictures may have been caught in the shuffle.

Maybe you could try the City of Columbia tax website or a local newspaper like The State.

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I wish I did.  Unfortunately, those can be hard to find.  I would first suggest the mall itself, but since a different company owns it than developed it, those pictures may have been caught in the shuffle.

Maybe you could try the City of Columbia tax website or a local newspaper like The State.

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i've tried pictures from Tax websites for many cities, but only Charlotte and Raleigh really seem to have them for every building

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GeorgiaRoadGuy may have some shots of Macy's (Rich's) at Columbia Place that he's using for his Rich's tribute site. You can send him a private message and find out. He doesn't like others posting his photo work, but I'm sure he'll let you view what he has.

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GeorgiaRoadGuy may have some shots of Macy's (Rich's) at Columbia Place that he's using for his Rich's tribute site.  You can send him a private message and find out.  He doesn't like others posting his photo work, but I'm sure he'll let you view what he has.

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Do you have his url or email. thnx

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  • 3 weeks later...

It may be coincidence, but I study retail and I've seen it too many times to not think there's some truth to it.

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It is true about JCPenney following white flight... as you've listed examples like Eastland and South Square too. I bet they'll have a store at the Bridges at Mint Hill (i hate that name still, btw).

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Wow....you pulled all their cards, didn't you? LOL

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It's been building up on my mind for a while what JCPenney seems to be doing. And certainly they're not the only chain that follows white flight, but they are guilty of running away from markets when they become less than 'ideal.'

It is true about JCPenney following white flight... as you've listed examples like Eastland and South Square too.
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