NCDOT

[archiham04]

I reiterate the gratitude expressed by others... you are, the man...

Why is NCDOT so eager to build roundabouts right now? It seems that every community in the state has some sort of roundabout project in the hopper. They typically show up in revitalization and ped scape plans where walkable communities are trying to be developed, but what is frustrating, is that they are not a very pedestrian friendly configuration.

It seems to me that there are a whole gamut of solutions that NCDOT could use to make streets more pedestrian friendly (most are probably less expensive), but roundabouts are being thrown around like beads at mardi gras.

Is someone at NCDOT trying to ride the political popularity of New Urbanism? Do you have an engineer that really loves his circle template?

[ChiefJoJo]

Do you have an engineer that really loves his circle template?

Roundabout have been used in europe for many years, but lost popularity here fore some reason--now they are back! They are particularly effective with low-to-moderate volume intersecting roads with similar traffic counts (ex: a 12,000 vpd & 10,000 vpd Road). In this function, they move traffic quite effectively. You'll never see one on Capital Blvd or Harris Independence Blvd!

[monsoon]

ChiefJoJo did you see my earlier question concerning the uneven roads being built these days?

[archiham04]

Does your car make a wierd noise as it rolls across that asphalt (from the 85 interchange into downtown) ? My car makes a varied humming noise, almost musical. Is it just my car? It happens everytime. Its more subtle than a rumble strip but it is a similar tone.

[JunktionFET]

I'd wager that the wavy pavement on roads like I-77 is due to the fact that the ground was continually saturated all during the construction process by the rain surplus, and the heavy continuous flow of traffic combined with the drying (and shrinking) of the soil beneath has rendered the road surface uneven.

I'm sure that more careful attention to roadbed preparation could've avoided the situation, if it is even caused by that.

[ChiefJoJo]

ChiefJoJo did you see my earlier question concerning the uneven roads being built these days?

Trying to deal with all these--ugh! I'm not sure what to tell you on that one. I think that roads here tend to be quite smooth in my own experience, especially when compared to other states. If there is any reason, it may be due to freezing and thawing of asphalt, improper installation (perhaps trying to get done too fast), or simply age.

[orulz]

I just thought about this question while writing about Hillsborough St. and Western Blvd. in Raleigh.

At some point in the past, it seems that some officials were keen on letting every little McDonalds and Burger King have its own two curb cuts onto just about any road, but as traffic volumes get heavier and heavier the counties, towns, and cities are realizing just how much of a hazard these curb cuts can be.

Curb cuts are the bane of any pedestrian's existance. To tell the truth, in many areas of this state pedestrians are so rare that drivers don't know how to act around them. Almost nobody checks for pedestrians on the sidewalk before pulling out at a curb cut; people turning left into a curb cut see their opening in traffic and either forget to check for pedestrians or think that the pedestrian is supposed to wait for them. All in all, it amounts to pedestrians risking life and limb at each and every curb cut - and since driver education is a lost cause the only solution I can see is elimination/consolidation.

So. I'd like to know if there's any procedure for REMOVING curb cuts that were initially allowed at the time a property was developed. Of course the property owner could not be expected to foot the bill for construction and providing alternative access, but is there anyone with the authority to force someone to give up a curb cut? If so, what is the process? Or is negotiation the only way?

Thanks.

[ChiefJoJo]

So. I'd like to know if there's any procedure for REMOVING curb cuts that were initially allowed at the time a property was developed. Of course the property owner could not be expected to foot the bill for construction and providing alternative access, but is there anyone with the authority to force someone to give up a curb cut? If so, what is the process? Or is negotiation the only way?

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not really sure on that, but access must be provided somehow. I am sure there is some procedure for removing driveways, but the best way is to construct an limited access road in the first place, so there are no driveways. A lot of municipalities are going to 4-lane median divided roadways (a la Cary Pkwy) which limit left turns and improve roadway capacity. Of course developers don't like that.

This just came out today--maybe we will seetolls on I-95?

[ChiefJoJo]

BTW, another article in the N&O shows how tough it can be to get certain roads approved through the federal/state review process: the Clayton Bypass was delayed for years by the presence of dwarf mussel.

[JunktionFET]

I'm glad that NC has this sense of environmental responsibility. It indicates that at least some people are aware of the impact we have on the world around us.

If any interstate freeway gets tolled, it should be I-95. I'd wager that most traffic on it is from out of state anyway.

[Jerseyman4]

From N&O " South Carolina is considering tolls for a new leg of Interstate 73 from Myrtle Beach to the North Carolina line at Rockingham."

Wow, they want to toll I-73 from NC to Myrtle Beach? No thanks, ill stick with US 501.

[orulz]

By applying tolls to all these roads, they're playing right into my hands!! If tolls on the highways become a more common thing everywhere and if the tolls are on the order of $10, then passenger rail will not only time competitive with driving, but also cost competitive as well. Haha!

*ahem* anyway.

People have this conception that highways are "free" because their gas taxes pay for the whole works (which is a half truth, but nevermind that for now). Lately, hoever, the amount of driving that people do and the amount of congestion on our roads has seriously begun to outpace the rate at which gas taxes can build roads. Take note, people: The system that you grew up with is NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE. Something has to give somehere.

However, I don't see how anyone would stand for a $10 "North Carolina entry fee" to come into the state on I-95. Foremost, that's a barrier to interstate commerce which would likely be ruled unconstitutional if challenged in court. That notwithstanding, people who know ahead of time about the toll booths would simply turn off onto local roads a couple of miles before the border and merge back on later.

[ChiefJoJo]

If tolls on the highways become a more common thing everywhere and if the tolls are on the order of $10, then passenger rail will not only time competitive with driving, but also cost competitive as well.

... Take note, people: The system that you grew up with is NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE. Something has to give somehere.

I agree 100%, but we really need to rethink our sprawl inducing land use patterns in order to truly make transit/rail/bike/ped effective. That means getting involved in your community at the local planning and project approval level!

However, I don't see how anyone would stand for a $10 "North Carolina entry fee" to come into the state on I-95. Foremost, that's a barrier to interstate commerce which would likely be ruled unconstitutional if challenged in court. That notwithstanding, people who know ahead of time about the toll booths would simply turn off onto local roads a couple of miles before the border and merge back on later.

I'm not an attorney, but I am not sure that is accurate. When driving on I-95 in Delaware & approaching NJ, it basically turns into the NJ Turnpike and I-95 only "re-emerges" near NYC as I-95 again... and i don't think there are any comparable highway routes. It would be an interesting question though.

[monsoon]

I-77 turns into a toll road in W. Va around exit 30 or so.

[JunktionFET]

What is becoming of the HOV study for I-40 in the Triangle? Do you know if the study has been expanded to include parts of US1 or I-540?

[ChiefJoJo]

What is becoming of the HOV study for I-40 in the Triangle? Do you know if the study has been expanded to include parts of US1 or I-540?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you check out the I-40 HOV site, you will see a hybrid HOV/CMS report at the bottom, which identifies the likely strategy for the implementation of the HOV lanes on I-40. Currently, there is a feasibility study underway which will study the financial aspects of the project (HOT/HOV lanes). CAMPO has the HOV/HOT project on their LRTP as a 2030 project (to be complete by then, but not likely before 2020), although that is subject to change. The cost in of the hybrid configuration would be $833 million (2003 dollars).

[monsoon]

Honestly I hope they do a better job than what was done on NC's first HOV project on I-77 North of Charlotte. The lane going south in Charlotte simply isn't needed because now that it is 4 lanes, not enough traffic can get onto the highway to make it useful. That is mainly because traffic is backed up greatly just south of exit 23 from points north because it is only 2 lanes.

And don't even get me started on the traffic going north. Since I-77 abruptly goes from 4 lanes to 2 in this direction, the only purpose the HOV lane serves is to deliver you to the terrible backup faster. This on a project that was years late and is still in process! I hope the NCDOT does a review of how a debacle such as this happened.

If there was a lot of extra money spent on these useless lanes, I wish instead they would have spent it extending the lanes at least to exit 23 rather them having them disappear in the middle of nothing. The taxpayers would have been better served.

Hopefully these same errors will not be repeated on I-40.

[ChiefJoJo]

FYI:

2006-2012 DRAFT TIP released yesterday.

Also, the comments about I-77 I understand--the HOV lanes were added late in the process at the request of the local MPO. I know that the project that is now in service, I-3311A is the first leg of the HOV project which will eventually extend out to NC73 in Huntersville. To say that it ends "in the middle of nothing" is not quite right, since it ends near the I-485 interchange.

[Jerseyman4]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[monsoon]

  To say that it ends "in the middle of nothing" is not quite right, since it ends near the I-485 interchange.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except there currently there is no interchange which means an 8 lane freeway with HOV lanes all of a sudden reduces down to 4 lanes. It really boggles my mind that someone in the NCDOT did not realize the really bad mess this was going to cause and went ahead with this design.

[ChiefJoJo]

Except there currently there is no interchange which means an 8 lane freeway with HOV lanes all of a sudden reduces down to 4 lanes.  It really boggles my mind that someone in the NCDOT did not realize the really bad mess this was going to cause and went ahead with this design.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is where the interchange is being built--isn't it under construction (haven't been down there in a while)? The reality of this design and all designs like this really is that projects are done in phases, and this was the first phase in that project that will improve I-77 to NC 73. The money just isn't there to do it all in one chunk. If money were allocated to do the entire project to NC 73 all at once, it would take money away from other projects in the area that are badly needed, like perhaps Independence Blvd or I-85, etc.

I know it doesn't seem to make much sense, and we are always looking at ways to improve how things are done (that project was done fairly quickly with the design-build method), but the realities are that we don't have enough money to keep up with the demand for projects at the pace they are needed.

With the new Draft TIP coming out on Wednesday, I already have received a couple of emails complaining about various project delays--here's one:

Recently it was announced that the planned development of the northeastern portion of Interstate 485 was

delayed 3 years due to budget shortfalls. Serious consideration is now being given to further delaying the

project and diverting the funds to widen the southeastern portion of I-485. I oppose this approach.

The congestion on the southeastern Ballantyne section of I-485 is a real problem and it is unfortunate that

it was not widened during initial construction; however, it is also unfortunate that funds weren't

available to widen I-77 further to the north, to widen I-85 further into Cabarrus county, or to ensure more

than 1 merge lane when I-85 South merges into I-77 south.

There will always be funding short falls and there will always be situations where in hindsight the

projects would have been amended. However it is not fair to the University City citizens of Charlotte,

many of whom purchased their homes in anticipation of the future I-485 development, to significantly delay

the I-485 widening. Thank you for your consideration.

I sympathize with individual's concerns, but it's the same email that we get all over the state. Nobody thinks they get enough money! There's just not enough for what we want. {rant over}

[orulz]

Nobody thinks they get enough money!  There's just not enough for what we want.  {rant over} 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right about that. Whenever something gets built, that means that there's something else that's getting put off at the same time. You can't build everything all at once. That's a certain way to get the state/country into financial deficits that it will never get out of.

We all have to be willing to let our pet projects - be it the TTA rail system, I-85 widening, or Durham East End Connector, or whatever - be postponed for the sake of our state's and our nation's "solvency." The dollar is weak, and Bush is spending a helluva lot of money in Iraq and Afghanistan, so until those things change we just gotta suck it up and go on with our lives.

Oh, and to those folks who bought homes way out in the middle of nowhere in anticipation of I-485, maybe that'll teach ya to live so freakin' FAR from the center of the city, and still excpect perfect transportation. An 8-lane belt freeway ain't your birthright, stupid!

[Neo]

Personally, I'd like to see the state take over all building, etc. of the road system again. Ever since the state started putting projects up for bid by contractors, it's went to the craphole. Any chance of not going with contractors in the future?

[orulz]

The I-26 Connector

The I-26 connector in Asheville is an issue that's been on the back burner for a long time. There was even a heated debate on the subject more than 10 years ago when my class was studying local politics and issues. At any rate, this is an issue that I don't feel has been brought to a satisfactory conclusion, but with the recent TIP funding report, the connector's construction has been delayed - giving us more time to think through the ramifications of the decision to build an 8-lane highway. So, I thought I'd repost something I wrote last October into this thread. I spent a long time writing it, and I made a few revisions this time around - so I feel it expresses my thoughts on the I-26 Connector in Asheville very well. Here goes:

---

I'm an Asheville native, but I spend most of my time in Raleigh. I still consider Asheville to be my home, to the point that I'm still registered to vote there. I've noticed that the majority of people here seem to be in favor of the DOT's 8-lane plan, something to which I am vehemently opposed, so, I thought I'd pitch in my two cents on the matter. It's quite long, so feel free to read as much or little of it as you want.

But remember, these are just my opinions and thoughts, and I'm not going to try to do any research to back my statements up, so feel free to criticize anything I say. Here goes:

America is an Automobile-centric Society. And along with this societal trend, highways are often seen as a symbol of a healthy, growing community. However, I firmly believe that there is not much that has a worse effect on the character of a city than building a huge highway. Why? Well, I believe that any highway has a certain psychological aspect to it - that is, a highway's configuration will bring about a specific mindset in those who drive on it, and those who live and work around it.

Now, this may sound loony at first, but please hear me out before you write it off! Think about it:

4 Lane Highway

A 4-lane limited access highway is only one step up from a 5-lane street. Such highways often have relatively closely spaced exits, and serve as urban circulators. There's also only one other lane of traffic for you to worry about, so as long as you're aware of the car next to you and watch out for any onramps, you can relax - a pleasant drive.

In addition, a 4-lane highway can go through a neighborhood and still make you feel like you're actually "in" that neghborhood. While a 4-lane grade separated highway does effectively cleave a neighborhood in two, it is still possible to maintain a connection, however tenuous, between the two sides. What constitutes such a connection is difficult to quantify, but perhaps this might help: if the idea of walking across a highway over/underpass doesn't feel too inconvenient, then there is some degree of connection. For example, Montford still feels "close to" downtown Asheville in spite of I-240, as do Merrimon Ave and Charlotte St. Within the segment up for improvement, the neghborhood around Haywood Rd also maintains a degree of connection. While some 4-lane highways are designed with wide medians and a wide right-of-way making any neighborhood connection impossible, highways like the present I-240 are built to a more urban standard, not taking up quite so much space.

6 Lane Highway

However, there are many situations where a 4-lane highway is simply not adequate for the volume of traffic. The next step up, a 6 lane highway, is psychologically a whole different ballgame. It generally has a more disconnected, perhaps suburban character, further segregated from the neighborhood through which it passes. Neighborhood connections are not readily feasible across a 6-lane highway, but the highway itself can be pleasant and attractive (I-440 in north Raleigh, or I-240 in East Asheville) or at least easily navigable (I-40 through Winston Salem). Dealing with three lanes of traffic is more difficult than two, but somehow it just never feels like that much of a problem.

Rebuilding I-240 as a

[uptownliving]

While watching Agenda Charlotte on TV 16 tonight...I heard Charlotte Mayor Pat McCrory say that Charlotte has spent $200M on STATE road projects in Mecklenburg County simply because they could not wait for NCDOT to build them.

The Mayor of Concord, Scott Pagent, was also on the show and said that Concord has also spent millions of dollars on NCDOT projects to speed them up.

Both of the mayors thought that the NCDOT Equity Formula was totally screwed up and are lobbying the Governor and Legislature to chage it so it takes congestion into consideration.

Mayor Pat McCrory also had a trite response to NCDOT when they informed him that they would be cutting the Charlotte area transportation funding by $70M....he told NCDOT that they should refund Charlotte the $200M it has spent on NCDOT projects in the area. They were silent and were taken aback by the comment.

Here is the hypcrocisy...NCDOT thinks its ok to "pay back" the rural areas that have "loaned" the money to build roads...but the thought never crossed their mind of "paying back" the urban localities that have funded NCDOT projects with LOCAL taxes.