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ChiefJoJo

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Not to beat a dead horse, but after visiting Raleigh-Durham this weekend, I must say it is outrageous how dark I-40 is throughout the Triangle. It definitely makes the area seem undeveloped and rural. I cannot believe that DOT has not added lights along the interstate by now.

It is a shame isn't it. I have been to a lot of metros and by far ours are sooooooooooo far behind in the urban highway lighting. It has been over 5 years since I visited Raleigh and with the amount of growth I am hearing about it doesn't make sense for the beltline looks like the 701 bypass in rural Sampson county at night. This is one of my biggest pet-peeves about NC. The other is the lame interchanges between interstates in urban areas. I know about traffic counts which warrants high speed stacks but still. Take a trip to Texas. Cities of 200,000 have better looking "urban" interchanges than ciites in NC with way larger city and metros. Sorry for the rant just some things that get under my skin.

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I've been keeping up with the I-277 lighting issue for awhile. I'm just suprised (well not really) at how many lights are out on I-85 AND I-77 as well. Not only is it dangerous (the on/off ramps in particular - most of the lights don't work there either), but it looks terrible. Does anyone at the DOT drive these stretches of road at night? Are they not embarrassed with how it looks?

NCDOT has the money, they just don't spend it wisely.

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It is a shame isn't it. I have been to a lot of metros and by far ours are sooooooooooo far behind in the urban highway lighting. It has been over 5 years since I visited Raleigh and with the amount of growth I am hearing about it doesn't make sense for the beltline looks like the 701 bypass in rural Sampson county at night. This is one of my biggest pet-peeves about NC. The other is the lame interchanges between interstates in urban areas. I know about traffic counts which warrants high speed stacks but still. Take a trip to Texas. Cities of 200,000 have better looking "urban" interchanges than ciites in NC with way larger city and metros. Sorry for the rant just some things that get under my skin.

I agree, cloverleaf interchanges just don't cut it anymore. It is hard to believe the only real "stack" interchange in the state is the I-77/485 interchange in Charlotte. As far as lighting goes, even rural interchanges on I-65 in southern Alabama have better lighting than many NC metros. Raleigh's is the worst (non-existant) except for the Six Forks Rd interchange on I-540. Burlington/Graham seems to be the notable exeption to this rule, as I-85/40 is well-lit at night.

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Sorry, Jason, but I'm going to go the opposite way on that one. Why on earth does NCDOT need to build high speed interchanges around all their new beltways. To me, it is a symbol of the wastefulness of the loop funds. Loops seem to get massive, sprawling, and multiple level interchanges, where people don't even need to tap the breaks to go along.

Meanwhile, interstate to interstate interchanges throughout the country have half cloverleafs or other slower-speed interchanges, that are significantly less expensive. It is outrageous that NCDOT built that ultra complicated high speed interchange over the water in New Bern! Are cars simply unable to slow down to 35 mph?

For example, check out the planned interchange between 40 and the northeastern beltway in Kernersville/Winston. It uses so much land, and is so complex (read: expensive).

What a waste.

Meanwhile, state roads can't be repaved, picked up for litter, or lighted because of the lack of funds. Just having a few of those interchanges being old-skool slower interchanges would save so much money we might actually solve many of the problems listed in this and other threads here.

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Sorry, Jason, but I'm going to go the opposite way on that one. Why on earth does NCDOT need to build high speed interchanges around all their new beltways. To me, it is a symbol of the wastefulness of the loop funds. Loops seem to get massive, sprawling, and multiple level interchanges, where people don't even need to tap the breaks to go along.

Meanwhile, interstate to interstate interchanges throughout the country have half cloverleafs or other slower-speed interchanges, that are significantly less expensive. It is outrageous that NCDOT built that ultra complicated high speed interchange over the water in New Bern! Are cars simply unable to slow down to 35 mph?

For example, check out the planned interchange between 40 and the northeastern beltway in Kernersville/Winston. It uses so much land, and is so complex (read: expensive).

What a waste.

Meanwhile, state roads can't be repaved, picked up for litter, or lighted because of the lack of funds. Just having a few of those interchanges being old-skool slower interchanges would save so much money we might actually solve many of the problems listed in this and other threads here.

I would agree with the interchange in New Bern. However these earthen behemoths we see in NC take up just as much space and do more harm to the environment IMO than multilevel stacks. That dirt had to come from somewhere. Also look at all of the population stats you will get the picture that all of the metros are going to keep growing. So why not build for the future. Example I-40/540 interchange. Yeah it might not justify a huge stack now but in 5-10 years what will be the case. Also the interchange itself is massive but the amount of earth it uses.... there had to be a better way. I fully understand your point by the way but what will happen when the infrastructure can't keep up.

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Sorry, Jason, but I'm going to go the opposite way on that one. Why on earth does NCDOT need to build high speed interchanges around all their new beltways. To me, it is a symbol of the wastefulness of the loop funds. Loops seem to get massive, sprawling, and multiple level interchanges, where people don't even need to tap the breaks to go along.

Meanwhile, interstate to interstate interchanges throughout the country have half cloverleafs or other slower-speed interchanges, that are significantly less expensive. It is outrageous that NCDOT built that ultra complicated high speed interchange over the water in New Bern! Are cars simply unable to slow down to 35 mph?

For example, check out the planned interchange between 40 and the northeastern beltway in Kernersville/Winston. It uses so much land, and is so complex (read: expensive).

What a waste.

Meanwhile, state roads can't be repaved, picked up for litter, or lighted because of the lack of funds. Just having a few of those interchanges being old-skool slower interchanges would save so much money we might actually solve many of the problems listed in this and other threads here.

I didn't mean every interchange should be a multi-level stack, that would definately be overkill, a multi-level stack would be out of place at the I-40/95 junction in Johnston County, for example. Not to mention, they take too much time and money to build. I should have been more specific, like the weird I-77/85 interchange in Charlotte. As far as the loop around Winston-Salem goes, I think they should spend the money to widen and update US 52 instead. That is one of the most dangerous and road-rage infested highways in the area. By the way I do agree also with you about the one in New Bern, that is overkill.

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I didn't mean every interchange should be a multi-level stack, that would definately be overkill, a multi-level stack would be out of place at the I-40/95 junction in Johnston County, for example. Not to mention, they take too much time and money to build. I should have been more specific, like the weird I-77/85 interchange in Charlotte. As far as the loop around Winston-Salem goes, I think they should spend the money to widen and update US 52 instead. That is one of the most dangerous and road-rage infested highways in the area. By the way I do agree also with you about the one in New Bern, that is overkill.

I severly doubt the 77/85 interchange will ever become a stack as much as I would like it to be. It is a horrible interchange that keeps getting reworked every time one road or the other adds lanes. I see near-crashes every time that I drive by there during the daytime. I doubt anything can be done to fix this problem as there isn't ample room at that interchange for an overhaul.

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I severly doubt the 77/85 interchange will ever become a stack as much as I would like it to be. It is a horrible interchange that keeps getting reworked every time one road or the other adds lanes. I see near-crashes every time that I drive by there during the daytime. I doubt anything can be done to fix this problem as there isn't ample room at that interchange for an overhaul.

My point exactly. Now that the population has outgrown the interchange now what. The design and capacity of these roads have to look at future growth and expansion. Not build for the present then try and upgrade later when it is too little to late. First of all the design is horrible. It does not surprise me though. Save money while building a haphazzard interchange on the two of western piedmonts most important interstates. I did blame the DOT but now after reading so much info on this forum I tend to blame "pork" happy politicians. At some time someone has to say hey look there is a problem with the way we do business around here. How about a the Tri-Metro Commerce Association. Maybe a group of like minded politicians developers and some visionaries from Charlotte, Triad and Triangle. You know like how all of the groups that lobby the congress for funding in DC. I am not sure if that is allowed in NC law but it is just an idea I thought of one day.

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I was up in Greensboro yesterday, and noticed that the exit numbers/mile markers are or will be changed from the "old" I-85 route to (I'm guessing Business I-85). I don't understand why they didn't go with I-40's mile markers (Where Bus. I-85 and I-40 are dulexed). IMO that would be a lot more useful to people traveling through the state. For locals it really shoudn't matter, because they tend to use roade names insteads of mile markers anyway.

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I don't understand why they didn't go with I-40's mile markers (Where Bus. I-85 and I-40 are dulexed).

Probably because I-40 will be moved onto the new southern loop, being built in SW Greenboro. See the future "vision map" here.

--> BTW, if you want a good idea of what some of the hurdles are for building a highway these days, check out this link.

The road includes three wildlife bridges, which cost a total of $2.7 million and enable animals to travel under U.S. 64. The bridges represent a scientific first for the state, said Scott Osborne, surveys and research coordinator for the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission.

Engineers and wildlife biologists conducted an extensive study to determine three primary travel corridors for bears, wolves and deer. State highway officials ponied up $115,000 -- about half the cost -- to help the Wildlife Resources Commission pay nationally reknowned University of Tennessee bear experts to conduct this research.

The proposed U.S. 15-501 bridge across New Hope Creek will cost an additional $1.2 million to build, state highway officials say. Bids on the $8 million project, which will expand the highway to six lanes, are expected to go out in February 2007.

By lengthening the new spans to 300 feet, jacking up their height to 10 feet and including roadside fence lines leading up to the bridge, biologists and engineers hope to keep deer traveling along the creek, which forms a natural corridor between Duke Forest to the north and the game preserves above Jordan Lake to the south.

I happen to think these are generally good things, as I am green-friendly, but they do come at a significant cost. A lot of people who don't understand how many stakeholders there are in public projects will say it's just a huge waste of taxpayer money to help those "tree-huggers." My point in posting this is, the amount of money required to build and expand highways has increased tremendously due to these and other factors (construction cost inflation), whereas the money from gas taxes to fund these projects has remained essentially flat.

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Probably because I-40 will be moved onto the new southern loop, being built in SW Greenboro. See the future "vision map" here.

--> BTW, if you want a good idea of what some of the hurdles are for building a highway these days, check out this link.

The road includes three wildlife bridges, which cost a total of $2.7 million and enable animals to travel under U.S. 64. The bridges represent a scientific first for the state, said Scott Osborne, surveys and research coordinator for the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission.

Engineers and wildlife biologists conducted an extensive study to determine three primary travel corridors for bears, wolves and deer. State highway officials ponied up $115,000 -- about half the cost -- to help the Wildlife Resources Commission pay nationally reknowned University of Tennessee bear experts to conduct this research.

The proposed U.S. 15-501 bridge across New Hope Creek will cost an additional $1.2 million to build, state highway officials say. Bids on the $8 million project, which will expand the highway to six lanes, are expected to go out in February 2007.

By lengthening the new spans to 300 feet, jacking up their height to 10 feet and including roadside fence lines leading up to the bridge, biologists and engineers hope to keep deer traveling along the creek, which forms a natural corridor between Duke Forest to the north and the game preserves above Jordan Lake to the south.

I happen to think these are generally good things, as I am green-friendly, but they do come at a significant cost. A lot of people who don't understand how many stakeholders there are in public projects will say it's just a huge waste of taxpayer money to help those "tree-huggers." My point in posting this is, the amount of money required to build and expand highways has increased tremendously due to these and other factors (construction cost inflation), whereas the money from gas taxes to fund these projects has remained essentially flat.

That makes since if I-40 will be pulled out of Greensboro.

As far as the environmental stuff. Illinois and Tennesse have found a way around some of that stuff. TN and IL both seem to have stopped building "Interstates" instead they declare them state routes. (TN examples: TN Route 840, and TN Route 475 were originally I-840 and I-475 early in the process) By doing this they avoid having to do a full federal EIS to build the road. Here is a link with information about a lawsuite filed against TDOT for not doing a full EIS http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i840.html I have also read an article on the same subject. I think it was in the USA Today last year.

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  • 4 weeks later...

When are they going to put westbound I-40 in Greensboro back on it's straight path through the urban loop interchange? Right now both East and West are on the Eastbound side with the crazy curve. It's claustrophobic, people driving 85mph through it, and every time it rains there is a wreck there.

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^ I know where you are talking about--over on the west side of G-boro where the outerloop is coming in at I-40... there is a 6-lane temporary detour that carries the traffic over to the side while construction ties in the pavement and ramps for the interchange for I-840 and I-40. My first comment would be don't drive 85 when the speed limit is probably 55 (in a work zone). When people speed like that in a work zone, people die. It's too bad motorists don't think of anyone but themselves as they speed thru at 20-25 mph over the limit.

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^ I know where you are talking about--over on the west side of G-boro where the outerloop is coming in at I-40... there is a 6-lane temporary detour that carries the traffic over to the side while construction ties in the pavement and ramps for the interchange for I-840 and I-40. My first comment would be don't drive 85 when the speed limit is probably 55 (in a work zone). When people speed like that in a work zone, people die. It's too bad motorists don't think of anyone but themselves as they speed thru at 20-25 mph over the limit.

That 6 lane temporary detour that's on I-40 and I-840/73 in West Greensboro was used in East Greensboro on I-40/85 when east bound traffic was shifted onto a "temporary" detour and the DOT closed the old eastbound stretch of road. It turns out that the new temporary route wasn't temporary but rather permanent as you see today. I have been through the new 6-lane temporary detour in West G-boro and have also found it claustrophobic because the lanes are small and aren't normal size on a typical interstate and there are those concrete barriers butting up to the right and left sides of the road giving you no shoulder or emergency lane. It is rather dangerouse but another typical move by our DOT. <_<

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The east side was not a detour--it was shifted to fit in the new I-85 bypass, so it was not temporary. Detour construction that is used on the west side of GSO is done that way all over the nation for temporary detours. There are standards for what you can and cannot do in interstate workzones especially.

In Boston, and many other cities, there are old freeways that have no shoulders at all and those are permanent roads.

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That 6 lane temporary detour that's on I-40 and I-840/73 in West Greensboro was used in East Greensboro on I-40/85 when east bound traffic was shifted onto a "temporary" detour and the DOT closed the old eastbound stretch of road. It turns out that the new temporary route wasn't temporary but rather permanent as you see today. I have been through the new 6-lane temporary detour in West G-boro and have also found it claustrophobic because the lanes are small and aren't normal size on a typical interstate and there are those concrete barriers butting up to the right and left sides of the road giving you no shoulder or emergency lane. It is rather dangerouse but another typical move by our DOT. <_<

You've obviously never driven around Pittsburgh much, that stretch of interstate is identical to all of their's.

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Roundabout have been used in europe for many years, but lost popularity here fore some reason--now they are back!

It's wild how so many people think these are a "new" thing for NC.

I was raised in Winston-Salem. There's a part of it called "Old Town", which was an unincorporated crossroads that wasn't annexed by Winston until the early 80s I believe.

At this crossroads, NC 67 (Reynolda Rd) had a roundabout with Shattalon Drive. I've heard it had been there from like the 40s or so...and stayed until Winston annexed Old Town and the DOT widened NC67 to four lanes.

It's funny to talk to old timers in the area and listen to them how they miss the old roundabout!! :shok:

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