UrbanCharlotte

500 West Trade (14 story apartments on site of former Polk Building)

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so when can we actually expect an offical announcement because last time I checked this was definately a midrise or two, not two 27 story towers, I guess with his closet devotion to this site we can expect Dougie to announce it tommorrow, but seriously did I miss something, because this is very very new to me.

Edited by Rickydavisfan21

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I'm so stoke about this project.....12 stories or 27 stories, it will really add to connecting the CBD to Gateway......if the Bloom grocery store goes there, then that will really help to create some foot traffic.

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that would be a crappy place for a bloom. there is a harris teeter like a block away. they should put that with the boulevard centro project going in 1st ward

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Atlrvr posted it on the 'other site' :). But the statement at the time is that the footprint, and the amount of delivery spots seems to indicate that a grocery store is likely for the spot, and Bloom seems to interested in competing with the uptown Harris Teeter.

As much as I'd like an additional grocer in First Ward, a Graham and Trade location for a store competing with HT seems to make the most sense. The population density west of Tryon and on Trade seems to be growing the most, so location makes sense to me.

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Does anyone know the approximate population of First vs Fourth Wards? I'd think the growth rate is about even, plus if Second Ward turns majority residential, which seems to be the plan, those folks would probably find it easier to visit a 1W Bloom (or whatever) vs zig-zagging their way over to HT or another Polk-located grocer. Dubone, where do you shop for groceries? Do you find yourself at the 4W HT or the Central Ave location more? It's not like the HT downtown is busting at the seems with lines of people out the door. The market is only so "big" over here on this side.

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Well, in 2004, the City's quality of life surveys had the following:

4W: 2505 people in 158 acres with median income of $44103

1W: 1621 people in 283 acres with median income of $28592

http://ww.charmeck.org/qol/cwac.htm

While First Ward is growing fast, Fourth Ward seems to be growing even more.

First Ward has lowrises like Renwick, Quarterside, MStreet, and high rises like Courtside, Twelve, TwoTenTrade, and the Trade/Caldwell tower.

Fourth Ward has Vue, Trinity/Polk, Trademark, Avenue, Citidan, and Garrison (and potentially the Renaissance Place and Edwin Towers blocks being redeveloped in the next few years).

Graham and Trade isn't inconvenient for First Ward residents anyway, as you can't really easily walk to any good grocery retail anyway, so a 1 mile drive isn't so bad.

All in all, though, the numbers support retail going to 4th Ward much more so than 1st Ward, although it is certainly doing pretty well.

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Also, I shop either at the 4W HT or at the Dilworth HT, never at Central Ave. I only go to Dilworth if we were already in the area or if we need something the uptown HT doesn't have. I also go to the CVS in 4W.

It isn't really a zig zag anyway, as I just take 5th and 6th and pop over (yes, in my car) in probably 3-5 minutes.

4th Ward is developing a retail cluster already, so it just makes sense to bundle errand trips in the area.

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Thanks for the figures. I love having my own personal research assistant. :P Seriously, I think the best location for a future grocer would be in the Levine development. It's smack-dab in between 1st and 4th Wards as well as all the residential that'll hopefully surround it. I just think the Polk location splits an already thin market even thinner.

It isn't really a zig zag anyway, as I just take 5th and 6th and pop over (yes, in my car) in probably 3-5 minutes.

I think that qualifes as a zig zag. A zig at the bare minimum.

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Apologies for slightly off topic, but all this talk about grocery stores in the same area got me thinking...and Dubones comment on the Dilworth HT.

Question: Does anyone think there will ever be a major grocery store built to satisfy the needs ot the north side of Dilworth and South Boulevard area (Wilmore, Camden etc)?

If one were to walk, say, from the Pink Building to the nearest large grocery store, they would have to saunter over to Dilworth HT...or alternatively catch the light rail to Uptown and visit Greens.

Suggestions?

Thanks, k

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I believe the most likely site for a grocery store to serve that area is the Ascot Inn site.....just a guess though.

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There has been no word about that Ascot thingy being demolished, has there?

That would be great if it were torn down, what an eyesore!!!

-k

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No...no word yet, but I believe the owner's of Uptown Cabaret purchased it last year, with the old owner operating it still.

Eventually both the Ascot and UC will be torn down and redeveloped (along with the parking lot between UC and the Morehead Square office buidling.)

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Didn't they just pour a bunch of $ into remodeling the Cabaret last year? What kind of timeframe are we looking at for that to get knocked down? I assume it's a ways off if the owners made that kind of investment so recently. Sorry to take this off-topic even further...

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I guess a moderator can always move this to the South End forum.

They did put some money in last year, but honestly, their ROI is so high there, that it wouldn't stop them from seeking a redevelopment if the right opportunity came along.

If I had to guess, I would expect to see something happen in 4-5 years, thought they will likely partner with a developer with more experience. Those parcels will be hugely desirable for high-rise since I believe they are all UMUD.

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Minor update on this project.

The developer found some contamination on the city property they plan to buy, so the city has agreed to pay half the costs to get rid of the contamination, those costs would basically be deducted from the agreed on sales price.

So when the contaminated soil is removed from the site then Trinity plans to close on the property they are buying from the city.

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I meant to mention this earlier, but I kept forgetting. One the main points in the city's presentation to council was that they should sell the land to Trinity in order to get the benefits of full-block development. I have to say that I wholeheartedly disagree with that tenet. It still might be wise to sell land to them, as they have indicated the will subject themselves to additional requirements if they get the whole block. But from a city perspective, it isn't a benefit to have a full block developed by a single developer! You end up getting 'backsides', and they determine their number of units and so forth with land size being just one factor. They could easily just add one floor, and do without this sliver of land. That would then leave that land available for additional projects.

For example, Trinity could survive with their land. Then when the Gateway station starts getting closer (current plans are for it to come online mid-2011), that land could be sold for a smaller footprint project like the Concourse or Trademark or Vue! We could get back to multiple projects and towers within a city block, and away from the monolithic one-per-block development that we experienced for much of the 90s.

It seems crazy that we'll get Vue, Trademark, and Concourse on roughly 1/4 of a block of land, yet Trinity would do a smaller project on a full block of land, yet be only a block away from two of those denser projects.

Now, if the full-block development makes it more likely for Trinity to increase their develepment size, or include large retail on the ground like a grocer (as Atlrvr pointed out on the siteplan earlier in the thread), then I'd be for it. But on the premise that one-developer-per-block is good, then I do not support it.

Now back to U/L's news. I think the state should also help cover clean up of all the land along the tracks in 3rd and 4th Wards. Let's all face it: there will be contamination on almost all parcels of land with a block of old railroad tracks, including where the baseball stadium and Gateway Station will go.

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I think the contamination comes from a gas station that used to be on the site of the current parking lot....there has been lots of enivornmental remediation on this site, and it has stalled the project several times. Hopefully this is the last of it.

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If my memory serves me correctly this used to home to an extension of the Charlotte Cotton Mills. Some old Sanborn maps have a building that would probably not have been the best for the surrounding environment. I would assume most of the soil on either side of the railroad tracks has some form and level of contamination.

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So, are they tearing down the old building (Trinity/Polk) at Graham and Trade to build new towers, or are they build the new building around a renovated old one?

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I think this building is getting rehabbed, but I've seen no visual progress as of late. I surely hope it isn't getting razed.

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I pretty sure that they're supposed to raze it and replace it with a ~11 story building. Sorry krazeeboi. I believe the reason they aren't rehabbing it is b/c it's structurally unsound.

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^That's right. The scaffolding around the base is solely to prevent falling bricks from hitting pedestrians on the head as the building slowly comes apart on it's own. No lie.

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Well thats a shame. Its an attractive building. I thought that the scaffolding was for future improvements... That block of Trade St is rather depressing though, so I guess some improvements are better than none.

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