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500 West Trade (14 story apartments on site of former Polk Building)


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32 minutes ago, QCT1401 said:

Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V.  This architectural style has become so boring.   Every new building looks identical.  Hopefully the retail component is engaging

Agreed. This building looks like South End has spread into Uptown, rather than the opposite. They didn’t even bother to utilize the entire lot. The parking lot is still sitting nice and ugly right next to it. Lots of potential lost here. *sigh*

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21 minutes ago, Hunted said:

Agreed. This building looks like South End has spread into Uptown, rather than the opposite. They didn’t even bother to utilize the entire lot. The parking lot is still sitting nice and ugly right next to it. Lots of potential lost here. *sigh*

They are utilizing the entire lot that they have. Accross Wilkes will be part of the Gateway Station assemblage given to the developer that is selected to make Gateway Station District happen. Its hard to tell but there is a street bisecting what you are seeing as a block. 

9 minutes ago, AuLukey said:

 

I see that as a good thing long-term. Mega blocks are bad IMO. We don’t need projects that take up an entire square block. Either they don’t own this land, or they will sit on this land for Phase II, or sell it off to another developer. Long-term that will most likely mean we will not end up with another midrise as land value continues to grow. The economics of 5-6 story buildings inside the loop will fall flat soon enough.

The Economics for Midrises in Charlotte has absolutely already dried up. Its now morphed into the Midrises with highrises stuck on model.

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I like it, just not for this location.  I guess I just had a grander vision of what was going to be built here with it being next to Gateway Station.  Add in some office, maybe a hotel and more retail and I would be all for it, without including any of that and not attempting to at least save and include the facade of the Polk State Building it's just... meh. 

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Can anyone with construction knowledge give insights into the cost difference of building a shell at 14 stories compared to say 30 stories?  

Read something where the costs keep on going up and I am having trouble understanding why a developer wouldn't build out the shell of the tower today, at current prices, and then mothball the top 14 for later use.   The top floors could be eventually sold as condos when, and I think it's inevitable, Charlotte actually gets a real condo market.    You could build a two-story restaurant or private club on 'floors' 15-16 and then wait it out on 17-30.  A different lobby for the condos could be used for the 15+.  

Feels like with what's being built around it and the sight-lines in front of it, the developer is leaving money on the table by not developing that air.    There was a tower that was mothballed like this, out of necessity rather than planning, in San Diego and they eventually released and it seemed to work out in the end.  

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24 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Can anyone with construction knowledge give insights into the cost difference of building a shell at 14 stories compared to say 30 stories?  

Read something where the costs keep on going up and I am having trouble understanding why a developer wouldn't build out the shell of the tower today, at current prices, and then mothball the top 14 for later use.   The top floors could be eventually sold as condos when, and I think it's inevitable, Charlotte actually gets a real condo market.    You could build a two-story restaurant or private club on 'floors' 15-16 and then wait it out on 17-30.  A different lobby for the condos could be used for the 15+.  

Feels like with what's being built around it and the sight-lines in front of it, the developer is leaving money on the table by not developing that air.    There was a tower that was mothballed like this, out of necessity rather than planning, in San Diego and they eventually released and it seemed to work out in the end.  

Developers care about making money. Not saying this is their only concern but they are a business, they need to make profit year by year. If you "mothball" a bunch of floors you have already paid for them but they are making you no profit. If a deal makes them a good return short term it is less risky then building more and speculating that the extra space is rented out in the future. Most office tower projects are sized due to the anchor tenant for instance Tryon place jumped up and down in levels many different times before it settled at 26 floor and that is due to the amount of space rented by the anchor tenant.

Floors sitting not rented looks bad on the books. 

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I think a huge part of this, is its really not a slam dunk location. Its best asset, Gateway Station, is 7-10 years from full buildout. They have this property burning a hole in their pocket since 2007, they need to make a move that will work for them. 

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2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I think a huge part of this, is its really not a slam dunk location. Its best asset, Gateway Station, is 7-10 years from full buildout. They have this property burning a hole in their pocket since 2007, they need to make a move that will work for them. 

Wow, I look at the location and see the exact opposite.  Walking distance to a grocery store, a large park and to BB&T.  All with stunning views of uptown if you're on the right side of the building.  Trash v. treasure I suppose.    

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3 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

It’d be a little easier to stomach if we were getting beautiful top notch replacements. Oh well, Charlotte can keep being Charlotte. 

Exactly. We should adopt our logo to recognize the value engineered nature of the city and airport. New slogan: "Charlotte is Cheap".

33 minutes ago, JSquare said:

Developers care about making money. Not saying this is their only concern but they are a business, they need to make profit year by year. If you "mothball" a bunch of floors you have already paid for them but they are making you no profit. If a deal makes them a good return short term it is less risky then building more and speculating that the extra space is rented out in the future. Most office tower projects are sized due to the anchor tenant for instance Tryon place jumped up and down in levels many different times before it settled at 26 floor and that is due to the amount of space rented by the anchor tenant.

Floors sitting not rented looks bad on the books. 

I'm no architect but I think of all the extra elevator banks for one thing. Major cost and can't be added later. 

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31 minutes ago, JSquare said:

Developers care about making money. Not saying this is their only concern but they are a business, they need to make profit year by year. If you "mothball" a bunch of floors you have already paid for them but they are making you no profit. If a deal makes them a good return short term it is less risky then building more and speculating that the extra space is rented out in the future. Most office tower projects are sized due to the anchor tenant for instance Tryon place jumped up and down in levels many different times before it settled at 26 floor and that is due to the amount of space rented by the anchor tenant.

Floors sitting not rented looks bad on the books. 

The profits year by year makes sense.  Didn't  consider empty floors on the books.  Thanks. 

My thinking was based on reading this in the CO.  Profit Dixon said it cost $150k a unit to build in 2007.  That same unit rose to $232k in just 10 years.  A 55% increase.  Even if there was an increase of 30% from 2017 to 2017 that would still be a pretty darn good return I think.  Especially if you have the flexibility to build any range of units all the way up to luxury.   Ah, the benefits of being a second guessing armchair developer.  :)

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1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

Exactly. We should adopt our logo to recognize the value engineered nature of the city and airport. New slogan: "Charlotte is Cheap".

That's why 80% of our transplants move here, so it is what you get. Ask the average person why they moved to Charlotte and usually you hear either "It is warmer than my hometown up North" or "The cost of living is SO much better than where I moved from. Here I can get a 2 bedroom apartment for less than $1,800 per month and buy a 3,000 square foot house for under $400k in a great school district!" Other than transplants to the Charlotte area from rural towns in the Carolinas who DO move to Charlotte for an upgrade in sophistication and culture, many of the transplants from out of state come here specifically because the city is relatively cheap and gladly trade the sophistication of their older and larger city up north for a vinyl tract house.

It is the same stuff people say for moving to Phoenix, Las Vegas, Jacksonville, Dallas-Fort Worth, Boise, Tampa, etc... and any other city with a large amount of transplants that are hunting lower cost of living and warmer climates. If our city didn't have those two things going for it, people probably wouldn't be leaving cities like Pittsburgh, Boston, New York, Philly, Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, etc... for Charlotte. Our airport would have about 350 less flights per day likely if it was not a cheap airport for American to connect tourist fare vacation travelers... again, we are a hub due to geography and being cheap.

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I love this project, great infill project in a pretty solid location IMO... The only thing I don't like about projects on Graham Street is that they always have the empty lot behind them close to the rail track and they don't develop that land into their property... I get nobody wants to live next to a railroad track but at least make that into some green space or something and don't just have it as empty pavement. That is my only criticism with this project. 

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I think that this looks really nice.  I like how it's not all glass and uses some stone (or concrete that looks like stone).  

I look forward to seeing this rise, and I think it's nicer than Crescent's Stonewall project despite the fact that that's in a better location.

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I love this project, great infill project in a pretty solid location IMO... The only thing I don't like about projects on Graham Street is that they always have the empty lot behind them close to the rail track and they don't develop that land into their property... I get nobody wants to live next to a railroad track but at least make that into some green space or something and don't just have it as empty pavement. That is my only criticism with this project. 

Its all land promised to what ever partner develops gateway station.


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My opinion:  the midrise is a solid design, reminiscent of their Stonewall building but cleaner.  I view this as the best looking apartment building built/planned in recent years in Charlotte.  The companion is pretty awful but I get the economics of building that here.  As someone who has worked in Gateway Village for 14 years, I am very pleased that this is finally happening.  Polk was not going to be saved and the site has been blighted for far too long.  With this project, the new police station, Gateway and the streetcar, this end of Uptown will be dramatically better in 10 years.

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I can't stand that this building gets torn down for a measly 14 story building.  It is the heart of the city.    14 stories is nothing for such a central location, but also not so bad to just merge their buildings to 21 stories and reserve the old building for some future time.   It is the Charlotte way to need to develop the whole block, regardless of what is on that block, so we get an interesting century old building sent to the landfill and a weak copypasta midrise, most of which is probably stick built.  

 

The Gateway station plan should take notice if the area can only economically support such low density.     

 

Like everyone else, I don't hate the design, although it is getting repetitive, but there is chance that this is the highest and best use of this property.  

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