Atlanta Megalopolis?

[Urban Catalyst]

another note on south florida...how often do u get surburbs with populations like 160,000 or 250,000? for some states, that may be the size of their largest city.

[Martinman]

Southeast florida is already a megalopolis right? So whats all this talk of the "megalopolis of the south."  South florida has already run out of land due to the everglades preserves to the west. The northward and vertical growth (density) will only feed this megalopolis even more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats not a Megalopolis. Its a single MSA.

[Aessotariq]

^The two terms are not necessarily mutually exclusive. A megalopolis is simply a continuously developed urban area made up of different political entities. The South Florida MSA has been referred to as the "Gold Coast Megalopolis." The South Florida MSA has three metropolitan centers, so it easily fits this definition:

megalopolis: 2: a thickly populated region centering in a metropolis or embracing several metropolises

(from m-w.com)

[Spartan]

Good piont, however, generally speaking, when we talk about a Megaolopolis in the US, we mean the Northeastern one. A relatively small region that contains 5 of the most populated cities in America: Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington. I think the population is somewhere in the 65 - 70 mllion range for the green area below.

So, while the megalopolis moniker may be technically accurate, it is not in the sense of the Northeastern Megalopolis. I think the idea behind this thread was to project when and if Atlanta and the I-85 corridor will ever become one very large urban area, in the way that the Northeastern area has.

[teshadoh]

Besides the Northeast megalopolis - my view it is 52 million, the only other megalopolis that I would be considered would be San Francisco - San Jose (which isn't that much of a stretch). But even the Northeast megalopolis is still developing, it is still concentrated on 3 different nodes with Washington / Baltimore, NYC / Philadelphia & Boston / Providence - in between these areas the density ranges from below 250 people per square mile to under 500 people per square mile.

Otherwise - the closest area to develop to a megalopolis is between Chicago & Milwaukee & vicinity, again not much of a stretch. In the southeast, Tampa / Orlando / Miami is an emerging megalopolis, as is Greenville / Charlotte / Winston-Salem / Raleigh but I wouldn't consider Atlanta to be an emerging megalopolis. Primarily because the growth / density is not developing neccessarily between multiple metros but as an offshoot of Atlanta's growth. Basically - Chattanooga & Athens GA aren't significant enough urban areas to be part of a megalopolis - no offense of course...

So, the NC - SC megalopolis, which is still half a century away is currently nearing 8 million & the FL megalopolis which is within a few decades to reality is 13 million.

[GA native_CFT]

Sure, the south is getting more suburbanized. but a lot of the south, even the areas in this so called megalopolis are still very rural. Try driving from Atlanta to Charlotte, theres a big area that is still rural. The only areas that i see as truly suburban are the inner suburbs of Atlanta. The suburbs spread out farther than that I know, but outside the inner suburbs, it is very much the south.

[teshadoh]

^ Exactly - many people are too quick to assume that there will be real development between many of our metro areas or that the growth will develop more linearly & not sphering from a central city.

[cosmoboy]

I really don't think there will be an all urban area from Suwanee,GA to Gastonia,NC. There will always be an all rural area at least in the Clemson area and near Lavonia,GA. I hope to not see the day when i'll be driving on a 10 lane interstate through the location mentioned above. and mini skyscrapers through our present countryside.

[alon504]

Not yet for Atlanta...it's a nice big Southern City, but, it's not a megalopolis. Atlanta is very spread out, IMO, and the urban density is just not there for this City to be a megalopolis. It's not connected to another big city, yet, and it's very fickle with it's sports teams, which shows that the city is not established yet. It's still a big city, but, in a whim, many could and would leave Atlanta for more money. There is little connection to the City. The connection is to the dollar and this is sad, IMO. Establishment is more important than population. Atlanta is a new very big city in the SE United States. It's been big for awhile, but, the recent explosion has left Atlanta without a true identity or a significant centralized Downtown. It's too spread out and the cracks are filling, but, it'll be another generation before Atlanta fills the gaps properly.

[Spartan]

Sure, the south is getting more suburbanized. but  a lot of the south, even the areas in this so called megalopolis are still very rural. Try driving from Atlanta to Charlotte, theres a big area that is still rural. The only areas that i see as truly suburban are the inner suburbs of Atlanta. The suburbs spread out farther than that I know, but outside the inner suburbs, it is very much the south.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What? There is continuous suburban growth all along 85 from Atlanta practically until the 985/Mall of GA area. Unless you consider that to be an inner suburb

^  Exactly - many people are too quick to assume that there will be real development between many of our metro areas or that the growth will develop more linearly & not sphering from a central city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would it not grow linearly? Havung multiple nodes along one line makes more practical sense than having a few extremely large ones.

[teshadoh]

What? There is continuous suburban growth all along 85 from Atlanta practically until the 985/Mall of GA area. Unless you consider that to be an inner suburb 

Why would it not grow linearly? Havung multiple nodes along one line makes more practical sense than having a few extremely large ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be the case if Toccoa or any of the small towns between Gainesville & Greenville grew to anything beyond just a town. But that does bring up an interesting theory - it is possible that Toccoa will grow to become a city, as Dalton, GA has. I didn't consider that & my opinions were based on a relatively static model of current cities developing as they are now.

[95-Souf]

I dont think you can place Birmingham, Atlanta, Chattanooga, and Greenville into one super metropolitan are, its just not a consistant urban connection between them.

I know im just reiterating the facts but it just seems like common sence.

But has anyone thought about the Central Florida area as a potiential Megalopolis.

While driving I-4 to Tampa from Jax 2 weeks ago I realized the only true rural areas on I-4 is the 15 or so miles between Deland and Daytona Beach, and given the interstate runs about 127 miles coast to coast essentially. All along the I-4 corridor there is growth from Lakeland to Orlando to areas north of Sanford in Valusia County. With the population expected to nearly double in the central Florida area, This could be Florida's next Magalopolis.

and also, Greenville, Spartanburg, Columbia is NOT, or anytime time soon will ever be a Megalopolis, .. lets just be real.

[derrickskugler]

ALON - isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? You hating on Atlanta's sports teams while living in New Orleans... a city that is about to LOSE it's NFL team to Los Angeles because you don't support the Saints?

Sorry, I know that this is off-topic, but that was uncalled for man. Atlanta has a 30,000 person waiting list for the Falcons, the Braves always do well, and the Thrashers always sold out before the NHL closed down last year... only the Hawks draw poorly, and that's because Atlanta is upset because the NBA promised them a professional team but instead they got a Developmental League team...

Okay... back on topic... no, Atlanta isn't close to becoming a Megalopolis anytime soon, but the potential is there... Chattanooga & Macon are the earliest targets, followed by Greenville/Charlotte, a long way off. Atlanta to Birmingham is more than 100 years off. There is NOTHING for over 100 miles between those two cities on I-20.

[alon504]

ALON - isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?  You hating on Atlanta's sports teams while living in New Orleans...  a city that is about to LOSE it's NFL team to Los Angeles because you don't support the Saints?

Sorry, I know that this is off-topic, but that was uncalled for man.  Atlanta has a 30,000 person waiting list for the Falcons, the Braves always do well, and the Thrashers always sold out before the NHL closed down last year...  only the Hawks draw poorly, and that's because Atlanta is upset because the NBA promised them a professional team but instead they got a Developmental League team...

Okay...  back on topic...  no, Atlanta isn't close to becoming a Megalopolis anytime soon, but the potential is there...  Chattanooga & Macon are the earliest targets, followed by Greenville/Charlotte, a long way off.  Atlanta to Birmingham is more than 100 years off.  There is NOTHING for over 100 miles between those two cities on I-20.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alright..didn't mean to hurt your feelings. But, at least get the facts straight about the Saints. The Saints have sold out every game in New Orleans for the past 4 seasons straight. Every game has sold out. If the Saints leave (and I seriously don't think they are going anywhere), it's not because New Orleans hasn't supported them. The issue is they want a new stadium and New Orleanians are attached to the Dome and want to do a complete overhaul of that building. In the end I think things will work out between the team and the City. With that said, I do know the Hawks are offering $99 season tickets to try to get people in and that the Falcons had to do the same thing last season to get butts in the seats. Listen, I like Atlanta. I'm not going to bash the city. I'm just stating the truth. I go to Atlanta 3 or 4 times a year to play and spend my money there. I go up to the N. Georgia mountains and canoe and camp, play, eat and shop in Atlanta, climb Stone Mountain, go to Whitewater in Marietta, Six Flags, etc....

[NCB]

As alon said, its not the fans not supporting the saints, its the city of New Orleans. There arent many teams in the NFL that average nearly 70,000 people at every game, when the team is 7-9 or 8-8. New Orleanians love the Saints, this is a football city. I dont think the Saints are going anywhere, but it doesnt help that our governor in LA wont recognize the fact that the Saints have a huge economic impact on New Orleans.

Anyway, i am glad Atlanta is doing so well. ATL is a great city, and it's nice to see another southern city moving foward so quickly.

[95-Souf]

hey,... wait a min.

the Atlanta Braves dont even sell out for playoff games,

the Falcons are only just beging to sell out, and lets not even start on the Hawks.

And 30,000 people on a waiting list is unheard of...

[RiversideGator]

It's still a big city, but, in a whim, many could and would leave Atlanta for more money. There is little connection to the City. The connection is to the dollar and this is sad, IMO.

Alon: This is definitely true. I know people who only live in ATL for the higher salaries but would prefer to live elsewhere (i.e. Jacksonville). But, what is wrong with making decisions based on $$??

By the way, I would rather live in NO than ATL. New Orleans is one of my favorite cities in America.

[csmurphy8885]

Atl and NO were great places to visit. when my x and I visited last summer, we had a blast for 5 days (both cities) and i can say that the only difference was the romance of the mississippi. Atlanta, dare i say, was a little more rude, but maybe thats because we could hardly understand anyone in LA..lol

Most of the Downtown buildings in Atlanta are occupied right? I know that NO is having issues with that.

[ironchapman]

Atl and NO were great places to visit.  when my x and I visited last summer, we had a blast for 5 days (both cities) and i can say that the only difference was the romance of the mississippi.  Atlanta, dare i say, was a little more rude, but maybe thats because we could hardly understand anyone in LA..lol

Most of the Downtown buildings in Atlanta are occupied right?  I know that NO is having issues with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most are, but one building in particular, 191 Peachtree is having problems staying occupied.

191 Peachtree

From: http://www.asicontrols.com/solutions/peachtree_small.jpg

[Lady Celeste]

Wow, we have gotten to the point of where we based if a city is a megalopolis based on sports and incomes.

I would wager that people move to cities that may not be on thier list of favorites for income purposes all the time. Not just for Atlanta suffers this. I'm sure there are people in San Jose, California who would much rather live in San Francisco but because Advanced Micro Devices pay them handsomely the choose to stay in San Jose. They could always leave but the choose to stay. In Atlanta's case they continue to come and come and come.

I guess with the CSA of Atlanta going from 2.5 million to 5 million in about 20 years is testament to the economic engine that Atlanta has become. Do I feel that Atlanta is a megalopolis....no....but seriously guys, lets stick to tangibles. The reason it is not a megalopolis is not because of something as simple as sports or income levels. Atlanta is not the only city where one who is properly educated can make money. Many previous posters have given tangible reasons like density concerns in the exurbs, distances between major cities and population/growth trends. These are tangibles.

I'm sure when someone is describing what makes the BosWash Megalopolis a megalopolis is not because of their winning sports teams or income levels. It's because of tangible items. Traffic patterns, major cities, urban densities, populations and economic connections.

From someone who remembers when Atlanta was much smaller and had a slower pace, we miss it. I wouldn't mind if the number of people moving here yearly slowed to a trickle. It grew much larger than I feel the politicans 50, 40, 30 years ago thought it would ever grow. Okay, so the Braves don't sell out all their playoff games. If that's the only inducement for you to move to Atlanta then I implore you to stay where you are. Chances are you will not like it here and you will want to move back to from where you came.

[cosmoboy]

Most are, but one building in particular, 191 Peachtree is having problems staying occupied.

191 Peachtree

From: http://www.asicontrols.com/solutions/peachtree_small.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't Wachovia used to occupy that building?

[Lady Celeste]

I think Wachovia did have a large presence there but they vacated their space when the merger between Southtrust and Wachovia went through. They combined offices in 171 17th st in the Atlantic Station development.

The other reason 191 Peachtree has so much space available is because Atlanta's largest law firm King and Spalding is building their own headquarters further north in Midtown. We now know their headquarters as the still under construction 1180 Peachtree building. They had the most space in the building so that has left hundreds of thousands of class A office space available in the tower.

It's a trophy tower so I have no concern that it won't be leased soon. The only problem it may face is that it is in direct competition with the proposed 37 story 50 Allen Tower a few blocks to the west.

[RiversideGator]

This is one of my favorite Atlanta buildings.

[UTCdude23]

Wow, we have gotten to the point of where we based if a city is a megalopolis based on sports and incomes.

I would wager that people move to cities that may not be on thier list of favorites for income purposes all the time. Not just for Atlanta suffers this. I'm sure there are people in San Jose, California who would much rather live in San Francisco but because Advanced Micro Devices pay them handsomely the choose to stay in San Jose. They could always leave but the choose to stay. In Atlanta's case they continue to come and come and come.

I guess with the CSA of Atlanta going from 2.5 million to 5 million in about 20 years is testament to the economic engine that Atlanta has become. Do I feel that Atlanta is a megalopolis....no....but seriously guys, lets stick to tangibles. The reason it is not a megalopolis is not because of something as simple as sports or income levels. Atlanta is not the only city where one who is properly educated can make money. Many previous posters have given tangible reasons like density concerns in the exurbs, distances between major cities and population/growth trends. These are tangibles.

I'm sure when someone is describing what makes the BosWash Megalopolis a megalopolis is not because of their winning sports teams or income levels. It's because of tangible items. Traffic patterns, major cities, urban densities, populations and economic connections.   

From someone who remembers when Atlanta was much smaller and had a slower pace, we miss it. I wouldn't mind if the number of people moving here yearly slowed to a trickle. It grew much larger than I feel the politicans 50, 40, 30 years ago thought it would ever grow. Okay, so the Braves don't sell out all their playoff games. If that's the only inducement for you to move to Atlanta then I implore you to stay where you are. Chances are you will not like it here and you will want to move back to from where you came.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said, Lady Celeste. I think the tangibles that we should look at are the effects of development not only in Atlanta, but in the other communities that surround it. Both Rome and Dalton GA have earned MSA status now. Given steady growth over the next 25-30 years, I could see some sort of baby megalopolis forming. Northwest GA is already the fastest growing region outside of metro Atlanta and I think I remember hearing that it will have approx. 1.25-1.5 million people by 2025. Or doube what it has now. I think with the increase of people in these two areas, the gap between Atlanta and Chattanooga will be filled. Which will also help the two economic areas intertwine some. I hope this actually made some sort of sense.. lol.

[derrickskugler]

I mean, this IS off topic and all, but I do feel the need to correct the records on some of the sports-related "tall tales" that have been flung around this thread in the past day or two...

#1:

Superdome Capacity: 72,000

Saints Average Attendance Last year: 64,000

* With attendance figures as low as 36,000 for certain games in the past few years.

Smaller markets with less successful teams have been able to put more fans in the stands than the Saints. Examples: Jacksonville Jaguars (avg. attendance 68,000+), and Buffallo Bills (71,000+). Both are smaller markets with teams that have done worse the past few years than the Saints. And yes, nationally, the Saints are the clear # 1 candidate to relocate. However, if the city government of Jacksonville doesn't pull their heads out of their collective butts, New Orleans may win a reprieve by default.

#2:

Yes, the Falcons DO have a 30,000 person waiting list for tickets. How do I know? I got on the list 2 years ago... I am still number 19,427 as of last month. I work for the team and I can't even get tickets. They have had sellouts for 4 consecutive years (counting this upcoming year, which is already sold out), and have had to do no ticket giveaway promotions to accomplish it. Mike Vick is the promotion. No, it's not Pittsburgh or New York, but it's still impressive.

#3:

No, the Braves do not sell out all of their games. Fans get complacent when you're working on your FOURTEENTH STRAIGHT DIVISION TITLE... the longest streak in professional sports history. With the turnover on the team this year, attendance has skyrocketed up again to it's highest point in almost a decade, and even before the spike, they were still the middle of the road as far as attendance goes, not even close to the bottom (#16 out of 30). If you took their average attendance since May of this year, they'd be #5 in baseball, at just under 40,000 per game.

Now, back on topic... no, Atlanta is NOT a megalopolis, but it IS the economic center of the southeastern US. Thank you for your time. :->