Greater Charleston Projects & Developments

[Charleston native]

More office space is being built in the north area. Developers will break ground tomorrow on the first phase of a 66,000-square-foot office park at the corner of West Montague Avenue and Interstate 526 near the coliseum. Montague Oaks LLC will begin building three 2-story buildings and one 3-story on three acres. The complex is a $15 million development called Montague Oaks Office Park, and it will be built in two phases.

New office park planned on Montague Avenue

[Infinite1]

More office space is being built in the north area. Developers will break ground tomorrow on the first phase of a 66,000-square-foot office park at the corner of West Montague Avenue and Interstate 526 near the coliseum. Montague Oaks LLC will begin building three 2-story buildings and one 3-story on three acres. The complex is a $15 million development called Montague Oaks Office Park, and it will be built in two phases.

New office park planned on Montague Avenue

this project is down the street from another 17K Sf office building planned to break ground in a couple of months, and is almost next door to the SC World Trade Center and the Coliseum/Conv Ctr/Performing Arts Center. This area is gonna be really hot in a minute. Tanger outlets is a stones through away, and the (ughm) City of North Charleston has a streetscaping project slated for this area.

[randy1]

CHARLESTON NATIVE, this is for you. Last night's State Of The City Address highlighted the many accomplishments and future goals for the city of Charleston. Even-moreso the mayor released the latest city proper population of 115,540. Here's the link:

Charleston Post And Courier State Of The City Address

[krazeeboi]

Wow, Charleston is only about 6,000 behind Columbia. The next census is going to be an eye-opener, methinks.

[Charleston native]

CHARLESTON NATIVE, this is for you. Last night's State Of The City Address highlighted the many accomplishments and future goals for the city of Charleston. Even-moreso the mayor released the latest city proper population of 115,540. Here's the link:

[url="http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=67156

[tablrock]

hey charleston native got a question. is the midtown redevelopment site, where the new pig is, is that where the new hilton is going?

[Charleston native]

^ Hey tablrock. I think I can answer that. The Midtown development which is being planned by Clement, Crawford, and Thornhill, Inc. is indeed close to the new Pig on Meeting Street, but it does not include the Hilton hotel. On Marion Square Park, Bennett-Hofford Co. will try to build a $50 million, eight-story Hilton Hotel at the northwest corner of the park, on the site of the old county library. This is right next to the old Citadel building which is now an Embassy Suites.

[tablrock]

^^oic, thanks. have there been any annoucments on the midtown redevelopment site. btw, i didn't even know about it until i saw it in the metro chas secion of the metro jax site. i like that addition to the site

[Charleston native]

Thanks...I'm a moderator for that section of the website. Actually, I originally posted links for Clement's developments in The Magnolia Project thread here on UP. Midtown is still a mystery, from what I've read, and nothing new has been written in any Chas publication. If I see more, I'll make a Midtown thread that will deal specifically with it.

[Charleston native]

Hmmm...lately, it seems like I'm the only one who has been active in this thread. Come on Charlestonians (past and present), let's get more active!

Anyway, I came across an article in the P & C about the new DT Marion Square development where Millineum Music is located. The investment group who is seeking to change the low-rise Marion Square retail complex into eight stories of commercial space and upscale residences has committed itself officially. King & Calhoun LLC paid $12 million to buy the prominent corner property.

The group is proposing to redevelop the site by building as many as 52 condominiums over two floors of retail shops and offices. Its plans also include an attached parking garage that could hold about 200 vehicles but would mostly be hidden from public view. The 1.3-acre project will require the demolition of the current shopping center at the corner of King and Calhoun streets, probably starting in 2007. The first four stories would be flush with the sidewalks, while the upper floors would be recessed.

Straight across the Marion Square Park, it is official: Bennett-Hofford Co. wants to build a $50 million, eight-story Hilton Hotel at the northwest corner of the park, on the site of the old county library. So it will be a Hilton...excellent!

[url="http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=66447

[Spartan]

I don't understand what it is that is messing up. Can you clarify?

[tablrock]

this just hot off the press, bobby ginn has acquired 200 acres just north of the 116 acre romney street lanfill and plans a mixed use development. go ginn

[Charleston native]

^ Ah yes, some more good news when dealing with the industrial eyesore of the Neck area. The news article link is below. Resort developer Bobby Ginn now owns more than 200 acres on three adjacent tracts off Morrison Drive, with extensive frontage on Shipyard Creek. He said the new acquisitions comprise a scrap yard and a large parcel just to the north of the 116-acre former Romney Street landfill his company bought last year for an eye-opening $18 million. A major mixed-use development is planned for the properties.

The land he owns in the Neck coincides with the land owned by Robert Clement for the Magnolia project. No word yet if they will combine their redevelopment efforts, but I think this is additional proof that the Neck area is going to dramatically transform soon.

Ginn adds 200 acres to industrial holdings

[tablrock]

another question for anyone in the know. the 50 room limit on new hotel construction, is this zoning just for the area south of calhoun or does it extend above? also in todays post and courier i see the preservationists still have their panites in a wad about the proposed hilton hotel across marion square. isn't there an island somewhere we can all vote them into? they make me want to vomit!

[vicupstate]

another question for anyone in the know. the 50 room limit on new hotel construction, is this zoning just for the area south of calhoun or does it extend above? also in todays post and courier i see the preservationists still have their panites in a wad about the proposed hilton hotel across marion square. isn't there an island somewhere we can all vote them into? they make me want to vomit!

I don't agree with the preservationist on every issue, but without them Charleston would be just another city. Nothing special about it. Greenville, Columbia and just about any other city you can name had beautiful historic architecture in it's past. The difference is Charleston preserved it's historic buildings and urban fabric, and the others by and large did not. The Preservationists made that happen.

To give just ONE example, look at the historic store fronts on Meeting Street (laying between the Charleston Place hotel and the West side of Meeting). Every one of them was going to be torn down to make room for the hotel.

In the end, a compromise was reached. The hotel was still built, and the historic streetfront remained. Today, by all accounts, the compromise was a better solution than what was originally proposed. Just think if the preservationists hadn't stopped it.

An eight story building next to Marion Square is a major change in height and scale for that area. Such a change should not be taken lightly. Given the proximity to the Francis Marion Hotel, it is not completely out-of-context. On that basis, I can reluctantly support it. However, I would be extremely hesitant to allow other new buildings to match that scale and height in that vicinity.

Historic Charleston is a fragile environment, that without care, could easily be lost.

[krazeeboi]

I don't agree with the preservationist on every issue, but without them Charleston would be just another city. Nothing special about it. Greenville, Columbia and just about any other city you can name had beautiful historic architecture in it's past. The difference is Charleston preserved it's historic buildings and urban fabric, and the others by and large did not. The Preservationists made that happen.

In Columbia's case, you can thank Gen. Sherman for that to an extent. I've seen many photos of historical buildings in Columbia that were razed, and even if Columbia did manage to preserve more historical buildings after the destruction of the city, it would come nowhere close to the architectural merits of Charleston's cityscape. Charleston simply had the honor of being one of the nation's first urban centers and there's no way Columbia or Greenville could have ever compared in this regard.

[Charleston native]

another question for anyone in the know. the 50 room limit on new hotel construction, is this zoning just for the area south of calhoun or does it extend above? also in todays post and courier i see the preservationists still have their panites in a wad about the proposed hilton hotel across marion square. isn't there an island somewhere we can all vote them into? they make me want to vomit!

Hey tablrock, I wouldn't worry too much about their protests. I forgot to post this article, but I have the abstract for it.

It's actually quite hilarious. Opponents of the hotel project had expected to speak in opposition to the plan but were told the zoning board's decision was not up for debate. The law that forced the zoning board's hand Tuesday was passed by the General Assembly as a property rights measure. It required municipalities to adopt regulations preserving developers' rights, or be subject to more stringent state requirements. Charleston and other municipalities were required to approve such laws by July 2005.

The article said that preservationists were stunned.

[Charleston native]

^ Well, I had to do a little searching, but I found the article through another source. Here it is:

Law Protects Hotel Plan

The person was primarily "stunned" was Cynthia Jenkins, a member of the Preservation Society of Charleston.

[Charleston native]

I don't understand what it is that is messing up. Can you clarify?

OK, I tested my latest reply here and I think I can clarify. When I post a link, it comes out normal in my reply box. However, when I preview my post, the link description changes. Let me give you an example:

Original link as pasted from my browser:

"http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=69405&section=localnews"'>http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=69405&section=localnews"

Resulting link from preview my post:

"http://www.charleston.net/stories/?newsID=69405

[CorgiMatt]

Very interesting article on the front page of the Post and Courier today. Very interesting.

[lsgchas]

Very interesting article on the front page of the Post and Courier today. Very interesting.

Heh heh, you said it CorgiMatt. Finally, we see the stilts that this housing "boom" is standing on start to fall away. I'm glad someone in the media finally crunched the numbers behind this myth of people tripping over themselves to move here. Basically, the tri-county area has not been growing as fast as the developers would like to believe. It reminds me of the look of irrational exuberance I see in the eyes of my friends when the topic turns to real estate. Some of them, God bless them, really believe that the value of their homes are going to continue rocketing up into the Stratosphere. As if someone ten years from now is going to pay a million dollars for a typical suburban house worth maybe $160K. Not in the Lowcountry, where subdivisions keep sprouting up, but there are no comparable announcements of new jobs being created. Anyway, the myth exposed in this article was the last of the two that I heard as justifications for the boom. The other was that housing in Charleston is 7% undervalued. I heard that one all the time. I even caught a realtor using it in conversation recently, weeks after the P&C revealed that the figure was the result of a researcher's mistake. In actuality, home prices here are overvalued by 28%.

The article in today's paper we're refering to is here.

[krazeeboi]

Well, I say "Kudos" to the staff at P&C for doing their homework and not giving into hype. Lsgchas, you make a good point about the jobs. It's not that there are no jobs coming to the area, but just not in proportion to the perceived population boom.

[Charleston native]

Of course P & C is going to publish an article like that because the controversy helps subscriptions and readers. Of course Columbians are going to believe that article over the others saying that there is a boom in Chas. Must we repeat numbers? The Chas and MB areas are the fastest growing MSAs in the state...and there has not been any change, period.

Upon further reading of the article, the P & C, in its infinite wisdom, uses a poor example with Strickland. Yes, the man is originally from SC, but that's besides the point. he went to NYC and decided to come back and stay home. Many natives are doing exactly that...moving away from their home to gain valuable job experience, then moving back home to settle down and bring in NEW JOBS. I might be one of those people myself, and I'm bringing a wife with me in addition who is not from the metro area.

So what if their originally from SC? I'm a native from SC and I moved to Cola. Most people who live in Cola are originally from Cola and went to school at USC in Cola. This article also uses their own analysis from Census reports, and like I said in the UA thread, most numbers like this are always off from the actual census each decade. I just think this article is trying to stir the fires of controversy, which it has done with other subjects like developing Marion Square and the Noisette development.

[MikesLogic]

Another thing they "forgot" to mention was the base closure, that was like 18,000 jobs gone. My family is one of the originally from here and moved back also.

[lsgchas]

Many natives are doing exactly that...moving away from their home to gain valuable job experience, then moving back home to settle down and bring in NEW JOBS. I might be one of those people myself, and I'm bringing a wife with me in addition who is not from the metro area.

No one's saying Charleston isn't growing. Of course it is. It's just a matter of how fast. I'm also a Charleston native who lived in NYC (for 8 years) and I brought my wife down with me, who's not a native. However, I have a lot of high school friends who moved away and have no intention of moving back. Plus, I have several friends who haved moved away in the last couple of years. Just the natural ebb and flow... But back to the point, if returning natives are bringing jobs with them (instead of coming back and looking for them), they better bring a lot.... Just the new subdivisions planned outside of Goose Creek will add more than 20,000 new homes to the area. That means that someone better come home quick and bring around 40,000 new jobs. Is Bill Gates a Charleston native? Because that's what we need to give these people a place to make a living, just in Goose Creek. Someone else will have to come back and supply the 200,000+ other jobs we need. Sure, new houses bring opportunities for retail, restaurants, et cetera, but how many Wal-Mart workers can afford our rapidly escalating home prices?

The bottom line: the local media wants us to believe that our real estate boom is somehow unique. But the truth is, our boom is being driven by the same macroeconomic factors that are driving similar booms all over the country. I love Charleston as much as anyone, but I've traveled enough to see that our real estate boom is not unique. It's not being driven from within. There's a lot of speculative money flowing around, not just here, but everywhere, and it's going to take a hard landing before those investors and salesmen give up on the dream of easy money.