Metro with Best Transit Plans?

[sleepy]

I haven't been to New Orleans, since the Canal Street line opened last year, but the St. Charles line gets a lot of use from locals.  There are plans to extend the streetcar system in this city, as well.  We need to get someone from New Orleans on here to give us updates on what's happening in that city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are/were plans to expand the New Orleans streetcar system down St. Claude Avenue. That ran into some difficulties and I'm not sure of the present status.

Memphis' streetcar system totals 7 miles. It serves a function downtown for tourists and downtown residents, particularly since downtown Memphis is oddly shaped--about 2 miles long and 3 blocks wide--and the streetcar basically runs the length of that.

Memphis has a light-rail leg running 2 miles east of downtown which is presently only using streetcars, and serves little function in terms of ridership. The plan is, as Lakelander said, to extend that line to the airport and points east using light rail cars.

Here's the map of proposed LRT lines, in purple, for Memphis:

[Charleston native]

Since light rail was too expensive to initially build, JTA decided to purchase the right-of-way for a 29 mile system, before it gets too expensive.  In the short term, the right of way will be used as electronic BRT with the first phase opening in 2009 .  In the long term, the system will be converted into light rail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this going to connect with the monorail in downtown Jax? Or is this a completely different LRT? It was my understanding that the rail which connects areas downtown was the catalyst to continue building light rail in and around the city.

[bobliocatt]

Wow, I never knew Little Rock had a streetcar system....Impressive.

[bobliocatt]

Is this going to connect with the monorail in downtown Jax? Or is this a completely different LRT? It was my understanding that the rail which connects areas downtown was the catalyst to continue building light rail in and around the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it will connect at the planned $127 million transportation center, at Prime Osborn, the South's largest historic railroad terminal. A hotel, retail space, JTA buses, Greyhound and Amtrak, in addition to the skyway and BRT, would also be based at the terminal.

[Brickell]

Did I mention that the busway is being expanded all the way to Florida City?

Did I mentioned that both the city of miami and ft lauderdale have light rail proposals that will be paid for without state or federal money?

Did I mention the Miami Intermodal Center?

And then there's the 50+ highrises going up downtown within easy reach of metromover and metrorail.

I hate to be one of those homers, but I'm blown away that charlotte is leading in this poll. What is going on there? Spartan mentioned light rail and BRT but I want to see some maps.

[Aessotariq]

Has anyone ever seen the Bank of America Tower at International Place in downtown Miami? A Metromover station runs through the building:

Consider this a sneak preview for a future Miami tour...

[bobliocatt]

Did I mention that the busway is being expanded all the way to Florida City?

Did I mentioned that both the city of miami and ft lauderdale have light rail proposals that will be paid for without state or federal money?

Did I mention the Miami Intermodal Center? 

And then there's the 50+ highrises going up downtown within easy reach of metromover and metrorail.

I hate to be one of those homers, but I'm blown away that charlotte is leading in this poll.  What is going on there?  Spartan mentioned light rail and BRT but I want to see some maps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brickell what's going on in Miami/South Florida, far surpasses any other metropolitan area transportation plans, not only in the South, but most likely the entire country. Charlotte's are great, as well, but I don't think its any more impressive than those of Memphis, Houston, Little Rock, etc.

[sleepy]

Brickell what's going on in Miami/South Florida, far surpasses any other metropolitan area transportation plans, not only in the South, but most likely the entire country.  Charlotte's are great, as well, but I don't think its any more impressive than those of Memphis, Houston, Little Rock, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Memphis has a great LRT program----on a map.

But in terms of funding and start dates, it's several years behind Charlotte, at least in terms of actual LRT and not the semi-functional streetcar system.

[Aintnoway88]

I'd have to go with Miami,Charlotte then Atlanta.

I think that Charlotte system is gonna turn out great simply because it can look at the mistakes other cities made. I really hope that the Beltway in Atl go though, maybe it will spark more infill type residential development in the Perimeter.

[memphismike]

Actually, Memphis has a pretty good transit plan in place. And, according to MATA, some work on the airport leg could begin as early as this year with completion in 2007. We'll see how well they stick to that schedule. But, overall, with the lines downtown, plus the "5-spoke" system with a terminus in downtown, it should be very successful. There's even talk of extending the southern leg all the way to Tunica and the casinos there.

Additionally, with I-69 coming through town, and a new outer-ring (I-269) being built, our interstate system should improve greatly in the next few years. The new loop will start in Millington, north of Memphis, and loop all the way around into Eastern Shelby County, Western Fayette County and down through two counties in Mississippi, connecting with I-69 in Hernando, MS. Plus, there will be a leg to Tunica. Also, I-22 is being built from Memphis to Birmingham, connecting to I-269, and a new interstate will be built from Memphis to Atlanta, using Hwy 72 as the route. That will be 3 MAJOR interstates and two important link interstates. How many cities have 5 interstates? Not many...should be good for the distribution industry here.

Memphis has a great LRT program----on a map.

But in terms of funding and start dates, it's several years behind Charlotte, at least in terms of actual LRT and not the semi-functional streetcar system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[showtime21]

ok is this a south only lrt post.?? I mean nobody can compare to chicago and in the south MARTA in ATL has took the crown

[showtime21]

Actually, Memphis has a pretty good transit plan in place. And, according to MATA, some work on the airport leg could begin as early as this year with completion in 2007. We'll see how well they stick to that schedule. But, overall, with the lines downtown, plus the "5-spoke" system with a terminus in downtown, it should be very successful. There's even talk of extending the southern leg all the way to Tunica and the casinos there.

Additionally, with I-69 coming through town, and a new outer-ring (I-269) being built, our interstate system should improve greatly in the next few years. The new loop will start in Millington, north of Memphis, and loop all the way around into Eastern Shelby County, Western Fayette County and down through two counties in Mississippi, connecting with I-69 in Hernando, MS. Plus, there will be a leg to Tunica. Also, I-22 is being built from Memphis to Birmingham, connecting to I-269, and a new interstate will be built from Memphis to Atlanta, using Hwy 72 as the route. That will be 3 MAJOR interstates and two important link interstates. How many cities have 5 interstates? Not many...should be good for the distribution industry here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Memphis is on the move 5 interstates great. now they have to work on the skyline because its hurting. Memphis is great just lose the paducah ky skyline.

[Hybrid0NE]

ok is this a south only lrt post.?? I mean nobody can compare to chicago and in the south MARTA in ATL has took the crown

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, I think Atlanta's rapid-rail system shines above anything else in the south regardless of it's short-sightedness. It can always be improved upon and I need to read up more on LRT. I think it's a way for cities to cop-out and not build a real rapid-rail system but I've never experienced it before.

[teshadoh]

Based on what I understand the criteria - Dallas followed by Miami & Houston have the best system that has active plans for expansion. Charlotte, Atlanta, & DC have good system upgrade / expansion plans but in Atlanta's case - most do not include MARTA, the core transit system.

Among the Atlanta transit plans under review / design:

Beltline light rail

C Loop light rail / BRT

Peachtree St street car

Downtown Loop street car

NW Corridor - Atlanta to Kennesaw BRT

Perimeter - Smyrna / Vinings to Doraville via Perimeter Center - BRT

MARTA East Line extension - heavy rail

MARTA West Line extension - BRT (!?!)

MARTA North Line extension - heavy rail

And commuter rail plans - if Atlanta can have at least half of these built, that will be a huge positive step towards developing nearly a quality transit system. But so far for a city it's size, Atlanta doesn't have a good transit system.

[northernbizzkit1]

Memphis has a great LRT program----on a map.

But in terms of funding and start dates, it's several years behind Charlotte, at least in terms of actual LRT and not the semi-functional streetcar system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the current rail transit offered in Charlotte? The last time I was in CLT, I saw that it was just a streetcar to get you guys started. Well, I would certainly have to disagree with you on funding and start dates. As memphismike has stated, it is projected to start out airport line this year, and also, we have plenty of funding for our line. Might I add that the extension into the Medical District was completed UNDER budget? Also, what do you mean by semi-functional streetcar system? Perhaps the last time you were here to take a ride was during the medical center expansion, for the line was closed off-and-on due to connectors, etc.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

What is the current rail transit offered in Charlotte? The last time I was in CLT, I saw that it was just a streetcar to get you guys started. Well, I would certainly have to disagree with you on funding and start dates. As memphismike has stated, it is projected to start out airport line this year, and also, we have plenty of funding for our line. Might I add that the extension into the Medical District was completed UNDER budget? Also, what do you mean by semi-functional streetcar system? Perhaps the last time you were here to take a ride was during the medical center expansion, for the line was closed off-and-on due to connectors, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charlotte's South Corridor is funded and under construction for completion in '07. The thing that separates Charlotte's plans from the rest is that land use planning (zoning) and required design standards are integrated into the transit plan in Charlotte and in the towns to be served along the North Corridor.

[bobliocatt]

I agree, I think Atlanta's rapid-rail system shines above anything else in the south regardless of it's short-sightedness. It can always be improved upon and I need to read up more on LRT. I think it's a way for cities to cop-out and not build a real rapid-rail system but I've never experienced it before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. Washington, Dallas and Miami all have more extensive rail systems with a mix of various rail forms in their metros (heavy, light & commuter rail).

For example, unlike the others, Miami's metromover line, which connects Brickell, downtown & Omni, is free.

This doesn't mean ATL's is bad....I just wouldn't go out on a limb and say its head and shoulders above any other in the south, in a way like Chicago or NYC is over their regions.

[A2]

DC has the best Mass Transit of the cities mention (IF WE ARE SPEAKING OF THE PRESENT). For plans for the Future I would say CLT LONG term plans (20 years out) are great as they will have a nice LRT that will run out from downtown in a Wheel and spoke fashion. Plus they will incorporate Heavy Rail where NEEDED and streetcars on Vital corridors OUTSIDE of the MAIN FIVE corridors that city has plans for. Their short term plans suck though (next 5 years). ATL has MARTA, but it is limited by where it goes. However I do like the fact that it goes to the Airport. This is a HUGE plus for anyone wanting to spare themselves the agony of finding Satelite parking at the World's busiest airport. It's the only time I actually use Marta when I am in ATL on Business. I think Miami's Mass Transit will be decent going forward as well. They already have a nice system now. I think you can ride for free on some routes (if I am not mistaken). Miami will only get better with time. Houston and Dallas are great, but I think of the cities as moving more people with Interstates versus trains athough I know they have them. I can't speak to Houston and Dallas, since I am not from there, nor have have I visitied them like the others. But my colegues at work are from both Houston and the Big D (where are you huieon39???) and they tell me pretty much that the Interstate or bus is the primary method of travel.

(Just my two cents)

[bobliocatt]

I was in Dallas for 4 days last week and used its light rail and commuter rail systems to get around instead of renting a car. All I can say is wow. Everyone here is definately not giving this metro enough credit for the fairly new, but extensive system they've got running. Trains were packed everytime I got on them, regardless of the time, and they all run right on time. They have pretty extensive expansion, plans as well. I'd go as far as to rank it as the second best rail system in the south, behind DC.

[monsoon]

I definately agree about DART. Though it is a light rail system as opposed to to the heavy rail system in Atlanta, I think they are doing a much better job with it.

[bobliocatt]

What I liked best about the system is how well they planned their initial routes and stations into the suburban areas of town. Each far flung station has large park-n-ride lots and most of the rail stops are in walking distance of popular suburban destinations, such as big box retailers and grocery stores. I think my only gripe about DART is that it doesn't connect Deep Ellum and Fair Park to downtown.

Hopefully, Fort Worth will take a serious look at rail in the future. Its got some pretty interesting districts, outside of downtown that would benefit from being connected to the core, Trinity and DART.

[Lady Celeste]

I wonder how much cheaper is light rail over heavy rail. I also wonder could a system incorporate both heavy and light rail.

[cheeriokid61]

I also wonder could a system incorporate both heavy and light rail.

Boston did. And I believe Washington did too.

[Aessotariq]

A recent study I read concerning rail options for Miami reported these figures:

Streetcar: $15-30 million per mile of construction, $122/hr operating cost

Light Rail: $30-100 million " " " ", $167/hr operating cost

Heavy Rail: $50-250 million " " " ", $209/hr operating cost

Because heavy rail depends on an electrically-charged third rail, nothing can cross the tracks, so it can't operate in mixed traffic. It has to be either elevated, at grade when there are no crossings, or underground. It does have the potential for the highest capacity and speed though, since the cars tend to be longer.

Light rail can be built more cheaply because it can operate at street level, roads can cross it, etc., because its electrical power comes from overhead (catenary) wires. The relatively wide variance in construction cost depends on whether or not you build it at grade, elevated, or underground.

So yeah, there wouldn't be anything that would stop you from building a "system" or network of mixed rail types, so long as the heavy rail is kept in its own right-of-way and separate.

[cheeriokid61]

When do city leaders know that they need to build a heavy rail, not a light rail?