Metro with Best Transit Plans?

[Lady Celeste]

A recent study I read concerning rail options for Miami reported these figures:

Streetcar: $15-30 million per mile of construction, $122/hr operating cost

Light Rail: $30-100 million " " " ", $167/hr operating cost

Heavy Rail: $50-250 million " " " ", $209/hr operating cost

Because heavy rail depends on an electrically-charged third rail, nothing can cross the tracks, so it can't operate in mixed traffic. It has to be either elevated, at grade when there are no crossings, or underground. It does have the potential for the highest capacity and speed though, since the cars tend to be longer.

Light rail can be built more cheaply because it can operate at street level, roads can cross it, etc., because its electrical power comes from overhead (catenary) wires. The relatively wide variance in construction cost depends on whether or not you build it at grade, elevated, or underground.

So yeah, there wouldn't be anything that would stop you from building a "system" or network of mixed rail types, so long as the heavy rail is kept in its own right-of-way and separate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Aessotariq, I will forward this information to the appropiate Marta officials....along with a little "WhyTH have you guys not thought about light rail for future extensions?"

[teshadoh]

When do city leaders know that they need to build a heavy rail, not a light rail?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they have the density to support one, which should be the answer - but wasn't in Atlanta's case. But, Atlanta's heavy rail is more of a combination of commuter rail & a subway, as is BART & METRO to an extent.

[Lady Celeste]

Teshadoh, you all know alot more about this rail issue than I do so I will ask you....

How difficult would it be for Marta to continue the northline from the North Springs station up to Windward Pkwy....maybe McFarland? They could follow along side of GA 400 until you get to Haynes Bridge, then it can flyover and ride up the median till the final destnation. That's about 12 miles. At Aessotariq's sources rates, that would be about 1.2 billion dollars using the highest amount. That's much better than the $5 billion dollar amount given to citizens back in early 2000. We were told then that Marta would extend to Windward by 2025.

By then I'll be living in Boca.

[bobliocatt]

If they have the density to support one, which should be the answer - but wasn't in Atlanta's case.  But, Atlanta's heavy rail is more of a combination of commuter rail & a subway, as is BART & METRO to an extent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tend to think cities should look at rail when the finally realize that they can't continue to pave theirselves out of traffic congestion. Charlotte and Dallas are both showing that you don't necessarily have to be a dense city to implement rail systems. Hopefully, their success, along with other cities planning rail, like Houston, Orlando and Nashville, will lead to others to follow the same road.

[Aessotariq]

Just thought I'd add one more thing: for the idea of extending the tail end of a MARTA line with light rail up to Windward, I couldn't tell you specific details since I don't live there, but I can think of a couple of issues that would come up: first one is that passengers would have to switch trains at the North Springs station. It's that's not a big deal, then go for it.

One other downside I can think of is that now you have to service two different types of trains at two different maintenance yards (maybe hire extra employees and incur other overheads), but the upside, besides reduced cost, is that since the train doesn't have to head all the way to the airport and back on a single run, it can be reused much sooner within a smaller area and perhaps more efficiently.

[Lady Celeste]

Just thought I'd add one more thing: for the idea of extending the tail end of a MARTA line with light rail up to Windward, I couldn't tell you specific details since I don't live there, but I can think of a couple of issues that would come up: first one is that passengers would have to switch trains at the North Springs station. It's that's not a big deal, then go for it.

One other downside I can think of is that now you have to service two different types of trains at two different maintenance yards (maybe hire extra employees and incur other overheads), but the upside, besides reduced cost, is that since the train doesn't have to head all the way to the airport and back on a single run, it can be reused much sooner within a smaller area and perhaps more efficiently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your honest and unbiased response.

Me personally, if I was to use Marta, I wouldn't mind transfering from light rail to heavy rail at the North Springs Station. Living far north of the North Springs station can cause Marta to almost be too little too late. Although the North Springs station is miles north of DT, for those of us coming from the greater Alpharetta area, alot of the heavy traffic we experience coming down GA 400 has already been endured.

Here is a map of the proposed extension for the north line of Marta.

I personally feel if they made the light blue area light rail, that would be helpful. If you see the yellow line at the bottom, that's the end of Marta in the Sandy Springs area. If I enter GA 400 at Windward and endure 45 minutes of traffic down to Marta, I might as well continue on driving to my destination. That's why I feel whatever is need to keep cost down would be beneficial. This blue extension is the part where we were given the $5 billion dollar total.

Maybe it will get done before I'm in Boca.

For anyone who has ever been on Marta and rode the north line; is it me or does the train seem like it's going too fast heading southbound between the Medical Center Station and the Buckhead Station. Sometimes the train is beating some cars as it travels down the middle of GA 400. At times it can be a bit unnerving.

[Hybrid0NE]

For anyone who has ever been on Marta and rode the north line; is it me or does the train seem like it's going too fast heading southbound between the Medical Center Station and the Buckhead Station. Sometimes the train is beating some cars as it travels down the middle of GA 400. At times it can be a bit unnerving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it's not just you but Atlantans seem to drive faster than the norm, so it wouldn't be hard to see the train conductors doing it too. Anyway, I've only been on MARTA once and my "this train sure is going fast" experience happen when another passenger noticed we were going a little faster than a vehicle on 85 after emerging from Midtown.

P.S. I think it would be great to have MARTA go to Alpharetta and while they're at it a west-line extension through Vinings to Marietta would be a positive addition.

[NCB]

New Orleans recently recieved $10 million from congress to plan and design this.

[Viper]

I have to wonder of those that voted, how many were familiar with the transit plans of all the other cities in the poll?

[EastSideResider]

I am very surprised people voted for Charlotte. I go to Charlotte all the time and it's transportation is impossible to understand? You get lost 24/7. It's big downtown so it's easy to get lost. Believe me, you don't want to get lost in certain places of Charlotte!! (East, West Side) I'm not dissing Charlotte I think it's a great city... cut back on the crime though!!

[Spades]

Great Job mentioning Dallas, lakelander. I'm surprised that it wasn't talked about until the third page much. Yes there are some plans for expansion including a line to the airport and another commuter line. They are always thinking of expanding. Along the present lines, they are developing many high density TOD's including huge projects like Victory and the West Village.Even the suburbs are doing it as well. Now TOD's are starting to get built on the future lines that will open in 2009. As soon as these developments are done. I wouldn't be surprised if the ridership numbers are very high.

That orange line in Miami needs to hurry up lol. Most of my family lives around the Dade-Broward county line and when its built. You best believe they will be riding it alot.

[teshadoh]

Teshadoh, you all know alot more about this rail issue than I do so I will ask you....

How difficult would it be for Marta to continue the northline from the North Springs station up to Windward Pkwy....maybe McFarland? They could follow along side of GA 400 until you get to Haynes Bridge, then it can flyover and ride up the median till the final destnation. That's about 12 miles. At Aessotariq's sources rates, that would be about 1.2 billion dollars using the highest amount. That's much better than the $5 billion dollar amount given to citizens back in early 2000. We were told then that Marta would extend to Windward by 2025.

By then I'll be living in Boca. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I realized sometimes you just have to search your name b/c you miss so many topics you were involved with

But my answer - I'm not sure I know. Unfortunately there is nothing funded AT ALL for MARTA expansion. That is not heartening & I'm not too proud of that. MOst of the transit funding is for projects that are worthy - but many of the regional leaders appear to have given up on heavy rail.

And it would be expensive to build that line extension. MARTA does own or own the right of acquisition for much of the land along GA 400 though. But I'm not positive how successful it will be - even though there are many jobs in Alpharetta but b/c it is an edgeless city type of office development, all of the transit riders would be completely dependant on a huge bus infrastructure for that area - it is too spread out.

What I see MARTA's future to be will be line extensions where there is no current rail ROW - otherwise I see commuter rail where MARTA would have served. So that just leaves the north line extension to Alpharetta, east line extension or spur to Lithonia & west extension towards Douglasville.

[sunshine]

when all the plans of atlanta, charlotte and miami are done in the next 10 years, it can still not be able to beat Washington DC. DC system is constantly expanding and the station design is classic.

[mcheiss]

when all the plans of atlanta, charlotte and miami are done in the next 10 years, it can still not be able to beat Washington DC. DC system is constantly expanding and the station design is classic.

I'll agree with you there, DC Metrorail is the best I've seen and very efficient.

[simms3]

I would say Miami followed closely by D.C. Miami has not only a people mover downtown, but also commuter rail in many suburbs with great plans to extend some lines to the beach and elsewhere. It's also got Tri-Rail linking all of the major cities in the region. I know that many people use the Tri-Rail, and I am sure that many people use the other systems as well. I have used the Metro in D.C., and that's very useful and busy, plus the stations are really cool and are sometimes destinations in and within themselves.

[TennBear]

I would say Miami followed closely by D.C. Miami has not only a people mover downtown, but also commuter rail in many suburbs with great plans to extend some lines to the beach and elsewhere. It's also got Tri-Rail linking all of the major cities in the region. I know that many people use the Tri-Rail, and I am sure that many people use the other systems as well. I have used the Metro in D.C., and that's very useful and busy, plus the stations are really cool and are sometimes destinations in and within themselves.

DC also has two different rail services Virginia Rail Express (VRE) with two lines and Maryland Area Rail Commuter (MARC) with three lines. You can go as far West as Martinsburg WV, as far north as Perryville MD, and as far south as Fredricksburg.

[Greenville]

I have used subway systems in Atlanta, New York, Boston, and Washington, DC, and the Metro in DC wins hands down. The others aren't bad. Marta is average to above average, MTA in New York is dirty but extensive to get you really close to where you need to be, and Boston's T seems really primitive and somewhat dirty compared to others like MARTA and the Metro.

No doubt about it, Metro is the best and that is one of the big reasons why I really miss living in DC!

[hinsp0]

I'll agree with you there, DC Metrorail is the best I've seen and very efficient.

If you live in the DC area and use Metrorail everyday, then you'd probably have a different opinion... at least as to the efficiency of the system. It is certainly one of the better systems in the USA, but far from efficient. DC does a terrible job of coordinating trains at stations that share the same line. However, the system gets you everywhere you need to go (if you can stomach some waits for transfers), the stations are spacious, and the system is clean.

Also, I give DC negatives for fare prices. I just returned from a trip to Madrid, which has a more extensive Metro system than DC, and 1 Euro is all that it costs to take one trip to anywhere in the city. In DC, I pay $2.75 each morning to go 6 stops to work with no transfer...

[nashvol85]

Oh, there's a shocker...Charlotte is beating most major cities in the south in this poll.

[illliterate02]

I thought I read that Orlando was having problems trying to get the funding for their system. If the plans take place it seems that the system will be somewhat efficient but limited b/c of the lack of stations in the outlying areas.

This should answer you question about Orlando, http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...ic=17769&st=210

Or you can go to the Central Florida Railway website and see all the plans they have. How many will become a reality waits to be seen, but commuter rail is a go as of now.

By 2009 we should be up and running... and one of the proposed stations is right downt the street from me... Good for drinking nights.

[Subway Scoundrel]

My vote would be DC, but even DC is lacking. But a good rail mass transit system depends on it feeders buses and I don't know them completely in DC. I am surprised the Charlotte vote is so high. Must be some "double-clicking" going on.

I like DC but I do think the distance between stations if far for a large city like DC. But hey, that is the US.

[Lady Celeste]

There is a growing movement in the Atlanta metro area that would unite MARTA (Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority) with GRTA ( Georgia Rapid Transportation Authority) with GCT (Gwinnett County Transit) with CCT (Cobb County Transit) with CTRAN (Clayton County Transit). This would create one mega transit authority that could potentially oversee adding more miles to the heavy rail lines of present day Marta and connecting up to 10 metro Atlanta counties under one authority. This should definitely give Atlanta a boost in these polls......then again maybe not.

The region's mass transit systems, from mammoth MARTA to modest suburban bus systems, may soon join forces to push for better coordination and

[prahaboheme]

This should answer you question about Orlando, http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...ic=17769&st=210

Or you can go to the Central Florida Railway website and see all the plans they have. How many will become a reality waits to be seen, but commuter rail is a go as of now.

By 2009 we should be up and running... and one of the proposed stations is right downt the street from me... Good for drinking nights.

Proposed Orlando Commuter Rail Route:

[illliterate02]

Proposed Orlando Commuter Rail Route:

It wont reach 90% of the people that usually ride public transporation. If they add a line along the 408 or Highway 50 then I think it would be good... With some manipulation of the bus system to be centered around the train stations. I guess they are fixing to change the bus schedules and routes as we speak.

[krazeeboi]

There is a growing movement in the Atlanta metro area that would unite MARTA (Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority) with GRTA ( Georgia Rapid Transportation Authority) with GCT (Gwinnett County Transit) with CCT (Cobb County Transit) with CTRAN (Clayton County Transit). This would create one mega transit authority that could potentially oversee adding more miles to the heavy rail lines of present day Marta and connecting up to 10 metro Atlanta counties under one authority. This should definitely give Atlanta a boost in these polls......then again maybe not.

For those who would like to read the entire article from today's Atlanta Journal/Constitution:

Transit agencies may join forces.

My fingers are crossed for this to happen.

This should have happened a long time ago. It demonstrates one of the negatives of having such small counties in Georgia--more bureaucratic red tape to tangle with. Nevertheless, it's good that this is finally starting to take shape.